My Search for a compact, high CRI, 18650 Flashlight (Newest from Zebralight)

[Tachead]

Is it safe to say that the 5000k is very close toneutral white? That 5000K color looks really good. I might be leaning a bit more in that direction. Having the floody beam definitely helps too when you have whiter light I think too as it will help disperse the hot spots. All too often I'll have mechanics shining their 950 lumen NiteCore SRT 7 flashlights into gearboxes, electrical panels, etc. and washingeverything out with glare and concentrated hotspots. On a side note, this site glitches like mad. I haveto type my responses in Word and copy them over. I think I noticed the issue brought up in thequestions section, I just haven't checked it out yet.

Definitions of neutral white vary greatly depending on the source. Cree generally defines NW as anything between 3500 and 5000K. Personally I would say that 5000K is neural white but, towards the cool side of it. As far as what is the most "white" in the sense of the colour white, I would say generally CCT's between 4700 and 5700K are the most white to my eyes depending on conditions. But, keep in mind that it all depends on what ambient light your eyes/brain are currently adapted to and/or what CCT light you are comparing it to. For instance, if you use a 4000K light, in the middle of the day, when you were just in sunlight or standard florescent lighting it will look very yellow. 4500K will still look yellow albeit less yellow. 4700 - 5700K is where it will start to look white in those conditions. Now conversely, if you turn on a 4700 - 5700K light when it is night time and you have been outside in moonlight or inside with normal 2700-3000K lighting, it will be very harsh and look blueish. It is all about what your eyes/brain are currently adapted to. That is why I said it is best to pick a CCT that best matches the ambient lighting you will be using it in the most.

 

[markr6]

I agree with 5000K being a good starting point, towards cool if anything.

Again, the tint is more important IMO. For example the 5000K MT-G2 emitter (in my Nitecore EC4SW) is nice and white with not much tint whatsoever. On the other hand, most of the 5000K LED light bulbs you get are blue...REALLY blue.

 

[18650]

I was already leaning toward the 4,000K color temperature soI'm glad we are in agreement there. Also on a somewhat unrelated note, I justlooked back at my Eagle Tactical receipt and it appears I actually have anXM-L2 Neutral White LED in lieu of the Nichia http://www.eagletac.com/html/d25tirc_2/features/index.html.I don't know how many times I've complimented my flashight's Nichia LED only tofind it is not. Oh well.

Proof that CRI isn't everything. I can't recall what CCT the Eagletac neutrals were rated at but I think it may have been in the area of 4500K.

 

[staticx57]

I edited my post and also added another comment. Apparently I've been wrong all this time. I actually have a Neutral White XM-L2 in my Eagltac (http://www.eagletac.com/html/d25tirc/features/index.html) and I've been giving the credit to a non-existant Nichia for years now. I am unsure what the color temperature is in the XM-L2 but I would like to stay close to that. The most important this of course is color rendering. I am also still trying to wrap my head around how I can get the same high color rendering with two different color temperatures. The higher temperature seems like it would make things appear more blue vice the lower temperature giving things a more yellow or red appearance…

CRI is only a measure of how colors would appear if lit by an ideal light source of the same color temp. There is no absolute with color.

Proof that CRI isn't everything. I can't recall what CCT the Eagletac neutrals were rated at but I think it may have been in the area of 4500K.

Of course CRI isnt everything. It only samples 8 mostly pastel colors. It is a fairly old system at this point. Imagine if you sampled hundreds or thousands of colors of varying intensity, you would get a much better picture and would expect two high CRI lights to match much better.

 

[scintillator]

NIST is working on a replacement for CRI scale.
I will be the CQS,doesn't roll off the tong as nicely as cri though.
Here is a link to their research goals.
https://www.nist.gov/pml/sensor-science/optical-radiation/color-rendering-light-sources

 

[Keletic]

Those are all very good points. The 5000k sounds like it'dwork better for the majority of the situations that would require my use of aflashlight. It sound like that tint becomes the item in question. Tachead, whenyou provided those photos it appears that the 4000k has a yellow tint but I donot perceive a blue tint in the 5000k light. Can anyone report as to whether ornot there is a blue tint to the Fd? An improved color rendering scale would be most helpful. Itis very important that when I've crawled under the dash of my truck to tearinto the wiring harness that I can correctly see each color.

 

[Connor]

Keletic, check out my Fd tint shots over here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...light-Thread&p=5160547&viewfull=1#post5160547
And remember: the tint lottery is real. Every single LED is different.

 

[Keletic]

Keletic, check out my Fd tint shots over here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...light-Thread&p=5160547&viewfull=1#post5160547
And remember: the tint lottery is real. Every single LED is different.

That tint looks good. It's a little difficult to judge without being beside the sc600fc mk iv plus but from the previous photos in this post from the mk 3, the 4000k appears a little too yellow. Are there any US based retailers selling the fd? I've called everyone who supposedly sells them without luck. It's be nice to deal with a company that had a phone number.

 

[eh4]

My experience, which is worth exactly one online post, is that the dirty yellow that you see is better for viewing under dim conditions, while the nice, creamy white that you see in the images above is better for viewing IF you pump the lumens up so that it is bright enough that the creamy white doesn't look like an impossible to focus with foggy blue-white.

"Personally, I think it is best to choose a colour temperature that best matches the ambient lighting you will be using it in. Cooler CCT's for daytime supplemental use and warmer CCT's for nighttime use just as a loose example." -Tachead

 

[Keletic]

My experience, which is worth exactly one online post, is that the dirty yellow that you see is better for viewing under dim conditions, while the nice, creamy white that you see in the images above is better for viewing IF you pump the lumens up so that it is bright enough that the creamy white doesn't look like an impossible to focus with foggy blue-white.

"Personally, I think it is best to choose a colour temperature that best matches the ambient lighting you will be using it in. Cooler CCT's for daytime supplemental use and warmer CCT's for nighttime use just as a loose example." -Tachead

Good point. It seems like I can't eat my cake and have it too. Doing additional research also brings my attention to the sc600w with a neutral white and a 80+ CRI and 2300 lumens. It's all relative and I just really wish I could go to a store and check out each of these flashlights personally. How am I supposed to make a decision with so much variation amongst individual LEDs, even of the same type. :shakehead

 

[eh4]

My old compromise was the "w" - for giving more "lumens efficiency" while still giving a warmer color temp.
I still rely on the MK II "w" models, and skipped the MK III, and have only become interested in the new Fc MK IV because they've adopted a new led, and seem to have a brighter, more powerful version that is optimized for Floody and which will likely be too large of an led die size for any non frosted lens to make sense... The higher output and warmer, high CRI light is just about irresistible to me.
I'm guessing the new 35 and 70 leds will make a great big, mushy hotspot without the floody , frosted lens... while the frosted lens will turn that limitation into a feature; a smoother, brighter head lamp.

 

[eh4]

It took a year plus to be sure, but to me the floody "F" varieties are the perfect compromise, for a light with a pocket clip that makes for a good all purpose light, still worth wearing on a headband, but well suited to pocket carry with a pocket clip.

H style clip fits, and there are other clip options that other posters have found to work.
I haven't figured out the best solution for myself yet, but the clip is useful for holding the light with your teeth, scuba regulator style.
Metal clip though, could put some wear on the enamel if one's not careful, or even crack one if the light bumped into something.

 

[Lumenize]

I'm waiting for the complaints and the glitches to subside and for the second run, but the MK IV lights look to be excellent...

Do you think that second run is taking place right now? At my local dealer several lights are out of stock for 6 weeks. On the Zebralight site several of the new lights have a lead time of 5 weeks.

If that isn't the second run, how can I know? I can wait a little longer because I need my light not before 2 months from now.


/EDIT
What are the complaints and glitches? Perhaps they don't affect my use.

 

[Keletic]

eh4, you've given me more to consider. I have once again shiftedmy focus to another light. I tend to go a decent period of time with the same flashlight;it's now going on three years with my Eagle Tac being carried every day. ThisZebralight would replace my EAGTAC and it would be used for every type ofillumination and as such, it'd be beneficial to make a few compromises for abetter overall light. I think I have settled on the SC600w Mk IV Plus 18650XHP50.2 Neutral White Flashlight. I'll slightly sacrifice CRI over the Fc andFd but I'll ensure a neutral white CCT, higher lumen output (2300), decent CRI(80+), good spill (80 degree), and good throw. Unfortunately, others seem tohave come to the same conclusion and the light is currently on back order. Suchis life.

 

[eh4]

lol, well backorder is a good sign I guess.
I think Zebralight is pretty good about dealing with glitches, and I'm pretty confident that if their lights are run hard at first, that most any (unlikely) problems will pop up very soon.
I'm just choosing to be one of the last penguins into the water, if Zebralight didn't have as much of a following I'd be one of the first instead.
They're so close to being perfect lights that I'm suspicious of improvements... incrementally better leds are one thing, the move to pogo pins, and to higher voltage leds that need higher voltage boost drivers are what made me suspicious.

Second run or not, I've almost exhausted my patience for waiting to order an H600Fc MK IV... and an H53c, or two.

 

[eh4]

First runs of anything sometimes have issues.
Zebralight has great engineering and quality control.
If you need to have your light in 2 months, go ahead and get it.
Use it hard for a battery discharge or two, and you're 99+% going to find that everything is great, and by breaking it in with more severe duty than it'll see day you day, you'll have just about guaranteed that you've got a reliable light.
I've had one failure in about 5 years, out of 6 lights.
It failed early on after turning on high in my pocket, maybe a faulty temperature sensor?
They repaired it, not replaced - same light came back to me about a month later, and it's my edc for the last year ever since. Perfectly reliable, turned on high and wrapped in a wool sock hat for worst case thermal condition, dropped all the time at random, dunked whenever i need light underwater.
Runs on M1 many times a day, and on H1 once or twice a day in average, i replace the battery and recharge it every week or two whether it needs it or not, rarely find the battery check down to two flashes.
Awesome light -H600Fw MKII.