NEW bicycle light UI - UIB2

[TrekJeff]

It may not help Darell, but it would sure work with me...lol

 

[Darell]

Money and chocolate works better here!

Well, I'm just literally back in the door now. I have several days worth of laundry and catching up to do... I'll see where George is a bit later and hopefully we can achieve liftoff soon.

 

[Darell]

OK... good news. We're on version 0.01! At this point about 75% of the stuff works... but that's all the easy stuff. The good news is that we're working on it. The last 5% takes way longer than the first 95% - this we know from experience (mostly due to the testing of EVERYTHING with each little change made. But this does look to be moving along quite nicely. It didn't always go this well though - now that I've learned a bit of Austrailian, the language barrier doesn't slow us down as much as it once did.

 

[cy]

just found this thread... most interesting!

if I have TWO levels on my bike lights, I'm most happy.

 

[znomit]

Three levels are ideal for me. Low for climbing, medium for flats and high for downhills. Also need to have low so I can dim for oncoming cars!

 

[Darell]

Well, while we realize we can't make EVERYBODY happy, the goal is to make lots of folks happy. The regular mode will be much as I've described at the top of this thread (five levels available directly from the user mode).... and for those who just can't seem to find a use for more than two levels, there will be a "dumb" mode (and I mean that in the most indearing way ) where all you'll have is a two-level toggle for both constant and strobe. For those (me included!) who want all five levels, it is just a menu option away. I decided on the same solution for the two lock-out crowds as well. It will either be super-easy to turn on, or - by flipping a toggle in the menu - will be much harder to turn on. Everybody gets what they want.

In the Dumb mode, click will simply turn on and toggle between the two levels (Oh, and you even get to choose what those two levels are!). Press for two seconds to turn off. Couldn't be any more simple.

In regular mode, you will click to turn on and go higher, press to go lower and turn off. (to get into strobe you will press to turn on, and then everything else works the same as constant mode).

In superlock mode, it will take three clicks to turn on to constant mode. It will take two clicks and a press to turn on in strobe. In non-superlock mode, it will take just one click to turn on to constant, and one press to turn on to strobe.

Some other things I know: All current tables will start at ~45mA, and you can choose the high to be 350, 500, 750 or 1000mA. For Dumb Mode your chosen "high" will be one level, and then you can choose your lower level to be any of the remaining four equally-spaced levels.

Is everybody happy?

 

[Darell]

Three levels are ideal for me. Low for climbing, medium for flats and high for downhills. Also need to have low so I can dim for oncoming cars!

Ah well. You can have two levels or you can have five. While I understand the desire for three levels... in my experience, those three levels are not a consistent brightness from one ride to the next. Full moon? Under tree canopy? Street lights? Total darkness? In those cases, having the five levels to instantly access is unbeatable, IMO. The good news is that you can just use three of the five it you want. And if nobody is looking you can use the 4th and 5th in a pinch.

 

[dom]

Welcome back Darell
The dumb mode sounds too easy -brilliant in fact -though i don't think i would use it.
In the 5 level mode -are the steps made in approx equal % -eg.
1000ma current
1000-750-500-250-45 ?
I assume they would be -but you never know.
Sorry if you have answered this before -couldn't see anything reading thru the thread.

Cheers
Dom

 

[georges80]

Welcome back Darell
The dumb mode sounds too easy -brilliant in fact -though i don't think i would use it.
In the 5 level mode -are the steps made in approx equal % -eg.
1000ma current
1000-750-500-250-45 ?
I assume they would be -but you never know.
Sorry if you have answered this before -couldn't see anything reading thru the thread.

Cheers
Dom

NOPE the steps are equal BRIGHTNESS which is NOT the same as equal current. The human eye tends to be logarithmic in response (as far as intensity is concerned).

That actually is a bonus since halving the current is closer to 20% dimmer... i.e. you get HUGE runtime increases by dimming just one or two steps...

cheers,
george.

 

[Darell]

When you see the log-based current tables, you realize in a hurry how wasteful the higher currents are!

George worked out these tables long ago - all the "flex" circuits have worked this way - the steps are even *visually.* If you've ever used a dimming circuit that just takes equal currents steps, it is frustrating as the bottom end has HUGE jumps, and the upper end seems to have very little difference from one step to the next. And the MAIN reason I want five level choices is to conserve battery power whenever possible. If you can go just one step down in a given situation, you've about doubled your runtime.

 

[dom]

Thanks George and Darell -i do recall this has been gone over before -silly me.

Come to think of it -i did a comparison beam shots at 1000 and 750ma and could hardly tell the difference by eye -but could in a photograph.Might be more noticeable with 2 lights side by side with the different settings.
I will try that tonight.
I know it wasn't a great difference and thought then that the extra power needed for that small difference was a waste.

I think there is mention of the actual approx ma in the steps of the old UIB in a older thread that you supplied-i will dig it up.

It's good to bring this up again anyway -i'm sure a lot of people new to the LED scene will be interested in a bit of power saving -or the cost in power for a small brightness jump.

EDIT :
steps for the older UIB as posted by Darell

As measured +/- 3mA

L1 20mA
L2 130mA
L3 279mA
L4 503mA
L5 1005mA

Lowest E-low is as low as George could reliably go - about 18mA (nominally the same as L1) The other two E-low steps are just a handful of mA greater each, so they're all lower than L2.


Cheers
Dom

 

[alexlockhart]

Been waiting for you guys to get back to post. Hope your vacation was great!

I've been for awhile here on CPF, learning, getting inspired, and making plans for a bike light. I've run through lots of ideas for a controller, but nothing comes close to the functionality that the Flex drivers offer. And your prices are very reasonable - most decent drivers are around $30, but yours do much more, and do it much better. I'm

I've read through this thread a few times, and am very impressed at your handling of everyone's requests. Every time, you've made the exact choices I wanted in the UI. You've even found a way to include features that you (and I) thought not so useful, like the triple-turn-on and the "dumb" mode (which is exactly like my DiNotte controls).

I'm collecting parts for my bike light project, and will be waiting anxiously for UIB2 to be finished so I can get the driver. One question: Is there any difference between the bFlex and nFlex besides the shape of the circuit board they're on?

Thanks for providing such a quality product and being so responsive to the community. You guys :rock:!!

 

[Darell]

L2 130mA
L3 279mA
L4 503mA
L5 1005mA

From L2 to L5, you can see how you must roughly DOUBLE the current to get an even brightness step. And up at the high end that amounts to an extra 500mA, of course. The reason I chopped off L1 is because that was chosen just as the lowest it could go, and that step wasn't as even as the others. In this unit, low will be a brighter 45mA... Which will offer enough light to slowly navigate AND insane runtime. Call it limp-home mode.

 

[Darell]

I've read through this thread a few times, and am very impressed at your handling of everyone's requests. Every time, you've made the exact choices I wanted in the UI. You've even found a way to include features that you (and I) thought not so useful, like the triple-turn-on and the "dumb" mode (which is exactly like my DiNotte controls).

Thanks for the very nice words! Almost makes me feel guilty to collect the high salary that I do... AND get compliments.

One question: Is there any difference between the bFlex and nFlex besides the shape of the circuit board they're on?

George can of course give you the annoyingly detailed specifics on the differences. The two circuits ARE very similar besides the shape, and I often use them interchangeably. HOWEVER, these new UIs are only being offered in the bFlex at this time.

Thanks for providing such a quality product and being so responsive to the community. You guys :rock:!!

You are quite welcome... and thanks again to you for the nice input.

 

[Darell]

At this point all the basics stuff is working and we're fiddling with timing and menu entry. George now has the task of implementing something completely new: The bi-color led fuel gauge business. Then we need to figure out some good indicator blinks for the strobe mode, and by next Easter we should have it. Kidding.

I've gotta say the click-up and press-down interface is working quite nicely. Even a bit better than I imagined, actually. With the timing we have now, it takes less than three seconds to turn it off if you start from the brightest (L5) setting. If on a lower setting, it takes less time, of course. Impossible to accidentally turn it off with a click or even a press, yet still a no-brainer to turn it off when you are are ready to do so. Click turns on and goes brighter, press goes dimmer and turns off. That's all you really need to remember to use this thing. Some folks are worried about over-stepping a brightness level while riding, but if you do dim too far, you just click back up to where you want to be - no scrolling back up or down through levels you know you don't want.

 

[Darell]

Some relevant items that were posted in this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2133322#post2133322

Originally Posted by ktronik
Ooh really...

do we get a 'ramp down' (force dim) triggered by a voltage warning setting??

happy if its just a force 'backup level'...

so you would see the light flash, "o'dear my battery is getting low"...
but I still got to get home...guess I will keep going & let it flash...this is the time they must remind them self, my battery is worth $100 or whatever, maybe I should be careful...but how do I know how long I can run like this...then any smart person, should select the lowest setting & limp home on that...

some people don't think like that... so a ramp down...after flashing... may be a good thing to be able to turn on...

If you already have this, then well done!!

K


Sorry, I forgot to ask for the USB programing interface... thanks...

I should probably cover this in the UI thread... but since you asked - no. It is up to the user what he wants to do after the light has indicated a low battery. UIB2 now offers TWO levels of indication - and they are set independently. So you can have a pre-warn, and then a REALLY dead battery warning... or anything inbetween. You can be alerted to any Vin level you like, and then YOU can determine what action to take. There may be a time when the circuit wants to save you from damaging your battery, and your wellbeing could depend on being able to us up those last few electrons. Maybe you just need a couple more minutes of bright light to end the ride. I want that choice. It wouldn't be hard to force the level lower when a certain V is reached... but we're gonna leave that action up to the user. I want the choice to destroy my battery if it means getting out of the woods in good shape.

I hear ya...choice

Way OT:

maybe the second level of indication, can have a feature, that can be turned on or off...

maybe that could be 'force low level'... so on second indication, option to 'force low level'

I hear ya again...dam ktronik, should have jumped on the UIB2 thread when he had a chance, now we all done & don't want to stuff around anymore with stuff that doesn't really matter...

So I guess I am saying, thanks for going to all the effort in the first place!!!

UIB2 UIB2 UIB2

A big part of this is that the circuit can be used with any battery chemistry and capacity. If you know enough about the battery being used to set the levels appropriately - then you likely also know how you'd like to treat your battery. There is no one best way to "save" the various types of batteries, so it really is best to leave it up to the individual. If the circuit were sold bundled with a battery and light, things would be much different, and this would make some sense. But out there in the wilds where builders will use these for anything and everything - we need it to be entirely flexible.

 

[Darell]

OK, folks. We're looking really good. Now comes that part that scares me... The final tweaks to make it the best it can be. I'm at the point where I'm going to finally load the code into my actual bike light and give it a try. So far everything has all been done on our test mules in the comfort of the office chair.

If there are any other comments, now is the time to hear them.

The menu as it stands now:

1. Force level
- what level is used at each turn-on. Can be set to any level, or disabled - if disabled, the light comes on at the last used level.

2. Max Current
- choice of 35, 500, 750, 1000mA. This will always be Level 5

3. Dual Mode (used to be Dumb Mode)
- DM puts the circuit in Dual Mode where only two levels are available for either constant or strobe. Highest level is chose via Max Current, and lower level is chosen with this menu option. If disabled, you get all five levels in "Multi Mode."

4. SuperLock
- Must use three clicks or two clicks and a press to turn on. Disabled means it only takes one click or one press to turn on.

5. Vstat
- How you want to be alerted to the V-levels (set below). Flash the main LED at intervals that you set, or just use an indicator LED (one color. Constant on for V-MED, and blinking for V-LOW).

6. V-level Low
- Set Voltage at which you want the most insistent alert.

7. V-level Med
- Set the Voltage at which you want the initial alert.

8. PowerON
- Controls what happens when power is first applied. Enabled means the light comes on as soon as power is applied. Disabled means you'll get a brief flash to show that you've made the connection, then it goes dark waiting for a button press. (there may be a blinking 3-second "menu window" alert before the thing settles down to "power on" or "power off" after power is applied.

9. not used
- Hey, we have an extra!

10. reset to defaults
- For some reason, some folks like this. Just resets everything back to the shipping defaults that we'll choose. Should we default to Dual Mode or Multi Mode? Dual Mode is the safest as it is so insanely easy to use. You'll feel more like a power user when you disable Dual Mode and move up to the 5-level big-leagues!

To enter the menu, you apply power to the circuit (plug your battery in) and press the button within three seconds of that connection being made. I'm thinking that we need an indicator here to let you know that the menu window is open. After that three seconds, or if you click, you can no longer enter the menu without disconnecting the battery. All menu options can be set with one menu entry (unlike previous UI's). You will return to the top of the menu after each setting is made, until you "press to exit." Once you have exited, you can't get back in until you again disconnect/reconnect the battery and press in the three second window. The only odd part here (that I'm not too happy about) is that if you plug your battery in, and immediately want strobe mode.... you're out of luck for three seconds. Is that going to cramp anybody's style?

Operating in Dual Mode, you will click to cycle between the two levels you've chosen. Press for two seconds to turn off. Same for constant or strobe.

In MM (Multi-mode, or Regular mode) you click for brighter, and press for dimmer. Five levels available for both constant and strobe. Keep pressing after the lowest level is reached, and it goes off. Keep clicking after the highest level is reached and it just blinks at you, as if to say, "No more power, Scotty!"

From off: A click turns on to constant (three clicks if superlock is enabled). A press (or two clicks and a press if superlock is enabled) turns on to strobe. You never have to use strobe if you don't want - but it is just a press away if you do.

For the first time, we have a two-level Voltage indicator that can use an off-board 3-5mm LED. It will only be one color, but there will be a steady and flashing alert, and those can be set independently in the menu.

Hmmm. I'm sure I forgot something important, but that will get you started. Comments?

 

[ktronik]

WOW very good!! well done... not one bit of 'fluff' their...

every function is simple & very usable...

I like dumb mode... thats for me...so in this mode I just need to 'click' between the 2 brightness levels... no 'press' in this mode??

I like in multi mode, a click to go brighter & a press to go dimmer... that all makes very good sense... if you need more light, you need it now...when you need less light.. it can wait an extra second...but either way you only have to hit the button once

so I still have to make repeated 'press' to cycle to the lowest setting...no super press to dump fully low??




I just love the LED fuel gauge... top work!

so if I had 'flash the main LED' on...& when I trigger 'V-level med'...it would flash a bunch of times (my choice) then not flash.... till I hit 'V-level low'...then would keep flashing??? is that right??


Very well done both of you...a very simple & easy to use product, jam-packed with all the functions you could want!!

 

[Darell]

WOW very good!! well done... not one bit of 'fluff' their...

Thanks, K. It is coming out pretty nice IMO!

I like dumb mode... thats for me...so in this mode I just need to 'click' between the 2 brightness levels... no 'press' in this mode??

Click is all you need to change levels. It is just a toggle. Only thing press does here is turn off.

when you need less light.. it can wait an extra second...

only 0.3 seconds, actually.

so I still have to make repeated 'press' to cycle to the lowest setting...no super press to dump fully low??

If you are on L5, and you want L1 (lowest) you just press and hold the button. No repeat needed. Every 0.3 seconds the level drops until you reach L1. The LED will then blink, and give you an extra second to take your finger off the button before it goes dark. It takes 1.2 seconds to to from L5 to L1.

so if I had 'flash the main LED' on...& when I trigger 'V-level med'...it would flash a bunch of times (my choice) then not flash.... till I hit 'V-level low'...then would keep flashing??? is that right??

Close. You set how often you want the alert. Once every 5 sec, 10 sec, 30 sec, 60 sec. It just keeps alerting. When you hit V-level Low, the alert changes to something a bit more insistent (something I'm supposed to be testing right now!)

Very well done both of you...a very simple & easy to use product, jam-packed with all the functions you could want!![/QUOTE]
Thanks very much. I think it'll be a winner. My first test ride with it will be tonight.

 

[ktronik]

Thanks, K. It is coming out pretty nice IMO!


Click is all you need to change levels. It is just a toggle. Only thing press does here is turn off.

Ok sweet...

only 0.3 seconds, actually.

oh even better

If you are on L5, and you want L1 (lowest) you just press and hold the button. No repeat needed. Every 0.3 seconds the level drops until you reach L1. The LED will then blink, and give you an extra second to take your finger off the button before it goes dark. It takes 1.2 seconds to to from L5 to L1.

I love you guys...so 1.2 sec from full to dim...I think I can spare that...

Close. You set how often you want the alert. Once every 5 sec, 10 sec, 30 sec, 60 sec. It just keeps alerting. When you hit V-level Low, the alert changes to something a bit more insistent (something I'm supposed to be testing right now!)

Ok, thats good... so if my light was on my head, I would use the 'flash main LED' setting...

& if I had the same light on my bar, I could use a LED & set the 'V-level med' to half way in the battery life, then V-level low' to 3/4 drained...giving a little more margin on the main system...can I use a blue LED (3.6v) or only red (2.5v)??

Might spin me out a bit if I hit battery warning on both lights @ the same time :green: with both lights flashing their main LED...

Very well done both of you...a very simple & easy to use product, jam-packed with all the functions you could want!!
Thanks very much. I think it'll be a winner. My first test ride with it will be tonight.

Can't wait...