offroad driving lights recommendations?

[Alaric Darconville]

Unfortunately it doesn't look like there any aftermarket support for stock xterra headlights. Upgrading those for even a $1000 would make more sense.

No, because aftermarket OEM-style (or even "Altezza-style" or "sport-style") or whatever-style are all junk, and you'll have a worse time seeing. If you're going to replace your factory headlamps, get new factory headlamps, not aftermarket.

Using a cheap $100/pair chinese knockoff would provide at least some improvement over stock hallogens.

Cheap lighting, even for offroad, can make seeing worse in some cases. If your goal is just slow rock crawls and fording streams and whatnot, I suppose there's no real harm, but at higher speeds those lights can work against you.

 

[-Virgil-]

it appears that offroad lights worthy of consideration start around north of $400 USD/pair.

I can't imagine how you reached that conclusion. I doubt if Stern would've said something like that (my doubt comes from having bought at least two pairs of what you are calling "offroad lights" from him over the years for well "south" of $400 USD). You can spend way less than that and wind up with good lights. Like these or these or these or these or (moving up in technology but down in quality/durability) these and/or these which are cheap enough you could throw a pair of each on and if one eventually fails or gets smashed, throw a replacement on and still have money left over to celebrate National Fried Chicken Day today.

It's not clear what kind of "cheap $100/pair Chinese knockoff" you have in mind as being "improvement over stock halogens", but that's not a smart or cost-efficient way to go.

 

[John_Galt]

I can't imagine how you reached that conclusion. I doubt if Stern would've said something like that (my doubt comes from having bought at least two pairs of what you are calling "offroad lights" from him over the years for well "south" of $400 USD). You can spend way less than that and wind up with good lights. Like these or these or these or these or (moving up in technology but down in quality/durability) these and/or these which are cheap enough you could throw a pair of each on and if one eventually fails or gets smashed, throw a replacement on and still have money left over to celebrate National Fried Chicken Day today.

It's not clear what kind of "cheap $100/pair Chinese knockoff" you have in mind as being "improvement over stock halogens", but that's not a smart or cost-efficient way to go.

Wow, surprused to see those two last options.

Theres a brand called "RunD" that offers some decent looking/realistic performing LED lamps on Amazon. They offer their cube lamps in a 10* spot or 30* flood, heatsink looks pretty appropriately sized, and they also offer a smaller but more expensive model that used 4x cree xpl's. For a $100/150 price range (for a set of 2), I honestly dont think they can be beat for LED lighting.

 

[-Virgil-]

Theres a brand called "RunD" that offers some decent looking/realistic performing LED lamps on Amazon.

How did you determine their performance by looking at them on Amazon, and what do you mean by "realistic"?

they also offer a smaller but more expensive model that used 4x cree xpl's

Or more likely, the people marketing this non-brand claim to be using Cree LEDs.

I honestly dont think they can be beat for LED lighting.

Based on...?

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Theres a brand called "RunD" that offers some decent looking/realistic performing LED lamps on Amazon.

It's pretty hard to really see engineering quality from photographs-- and to see a lamp's performance you need to see real photometric tests.

heatsink looks pretty appropriately sized

"Looks", but is it attached to the heat source properly so that it can do its job? If it's got a 1/4" air gap from the heat source it's not going to sink it very well.

a smaller but more expensive model that used 4x cree xpl's.

That's the *claim* anyway. They could be Cree seconds, a different model, or not be Cree at all.

For a $100/150 price range (for a set of 2), I honestly dont think they can be beat for LED lighting.

The key word being "think". You haven't examined the lamps in person, you haven't run any legitimate tests-- you looked at the pictures and ad copy and thought they "can't be beat".

Not to beat up on you here, but when one or two people give an undeserved thumbs up to a product, and they go unquestioned, the rest of the Internet sees the glowing review and think they've got a legitimate option in that product.

 

[eart]

I can't imagine how you reached that conclusion. I doubt if Stern would've said something like that (my doubt comes from having bought at least two pairs of what you are calling "offroad lights" from him over the years for well "south" of $400 USD).

I suppose I may have introduced some bias by asking Dan about Koito JIS. Between housings, reflectors and bulbs the cost is nearly $400 USD.

You can spend way less than that and wind up with good lights. Like these or these or these or these or (moving up in technology but down in quality/durability) these and/or these which are cheap enough you could throw a pair of each on and if one eventually fails or gets smashed, throw a replacement on and still have money left over to celebrate National Fried Chicken Day today.

It's not clear what kind of "cheap $100/pair Chinese knockoff" you have in mind as being "improvement over stock halogens", but that's not a smart or cost-efficient way to go.

I explored the links, you seem to like Hellas a lot. Can you elaborate as to why that is? The halogen options seem comparable to stock headlights, at 55 watts. The 100 watt units sound like they would put out more light. And that's another things -- apart from the valuefit hellas, there are no specs provided, much like the chinese knock offs. Compare it with this jwspeaker model.

So the only units I can compare based on specs, are lights from the likes of Baja and JW Speaker, and they start around $150/light. I can't draw any conclusions about the lights you link to, because I havent found any specs online. Hope that explains how I arrived at the 400 dollar figure.

 

[-Virgil-]

I suppose I may have introduced some bias by asking Dan about Koito JIS. Between housings, reflectors and bulbs the cost is nearly $400 USD.

Really? Yikes, that's way more than I paid not too long ago. What are they getting for the housings these days?

I explored the links, you seem to like Hellas a lot. Can you elaborate as to why that is?

Of the dozen-or-so well established OE lighting suppliers in the world, Hella's is by far the biggest aftermarket product line. They do have some inexpensive offerings intended mainly to be just a little bit better and take away some sales from the off-brand cheap junk. But most of the Hella auxiliary lighting line is of very good design, build, and quality compared to a large proportion of what's out there overall. The reason is sort of obvious: Hella's enormous OE supply activity means they have, in-house, everything -- at top-of-class level -- needed to design, engineer, test, tool, build, quality-control, and distribute pretty much whatever lamp they dream up...with any technology...at very low cost compared to companies that have to outsource and contract for any (or all) of those steps. And they tend to run a "tight ship" with regard to standing behind their stuff and actually providing what they list in their catalogs (this is where Valeo/Cibie fell down pretty much constantly over the years in North America). That's not to say that any-every Hella lamp is a sure bet; there are some clunkers and lacklusters in the line.

The halogen options seem comparable to stock headlights, at 55 watts.

The watt is not a measure of light output, number one. Number two, on the list of automotive road-illumination bulb types there are about twenty different 12-volt, 55-watt halogen types producing from about 900 to 1820 lumens. These are different, almost all non-interchangeable types, the point is that there is no such thing as "the" output of a 55w bulb.

What's more, it doesn't actually matter whether you have an 1820-lumen 55-watt bulb or a 900-lumen 55-watt bulb. That's not what you see as a driver. You see how much light the lamp puts out, and in what kind of a distribution pattern. It is perfectly possible for a lamp with the 900-lumen bulb to be more efficient and better engineered so it puts more light in more usable places for you than a lamp with the 1820-lumen bulb.

 

[Travler]

Of the dozen-or-so well established OE lighting suppliers in the world, Hella's is by far the biggest aftermarket product line. They do have some inexpensive offerings intended mainly to be just a little bit better and take away some sales from the off-brand cheap junk. But most of the Hella auxiliary lighting line is of very good design, build, and quality compared to a large proportion of what's out there overall. The reason is sort of obvious: Hella's enormous OE supply activity means they have, in-house, everything -- at top-of-class level -- needed to design, engineer, test, tool, build, quality-control, and distribute pretty much whatever lamp they dream up...with any technology...at very low cost compared to companies that have to outsource and contract for any (or all) of those steps. And they tend to run a "tight ship" with regard to standing behind their stuff and actually providing what they list in their catalogs (this is where Valeo/Cibie fell down pretty much constantly over the years in North America). That's not to say that any-every Hella lamp is a sure bet; there are some clunkers and lacklusters in the line.

With the market flooded with crap offshore offroad lighting, would you mind listing some of your preferred brands? I am willing to make a sizable investment in good quality off road lightning but I only want to do it once. One of the better investments I have already made was upgrading to JW Speaker Headlights. I do prefer LED over Halogen because of the rough service use.

Someone I know recently purchased some Cibie and I believe it was KC Hilites E code headlamp housings. From the outside they appeared identical in design except the lens fluting was deeper and more defined with the KC lens. The reflector of the KC reflector was different as it appear cheaper and crudder made. No DOT or SAE marking on the housings. He did no scientific testing so I will not comment on that.
https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/kc-hilites-cibie-e-code-clone.195262/

I know you recommended I slowed down due to my loss of depth perception at night, but when I run heavy sweep in the rally stages I can not waste time in assuring that all rally drivers are safely off the course. The next stage can not be started until we have swept the previous stage and arrived at the start of the next stage. I try to at least run the stage at 75 to 80% race speed. I do try to notice what the professionals use for night time driving lamps, but some low budget teams do use the cheaper off brand lamps.

 

[-Virgil-]

With the market flooded with crap offshore offroad lighting, would you mind listing some of your preferred brands?

Hella, JW Speaker, Valeo (Cibie, Marchal), AL (Bosch, Carello), ZKW, Koito, Stanley, Ichikoh, Truck-Lite, Peterson. That's not an exhaustive list and it's not in any particular order.

Someone I know recently purchased some Cibie and I believe it was KC Hilites E code headlamp housings.

Aside from the shocking (not) conclusion that the knockoffs are inferior to the real ones (duh...), that whole storyline is fishy. Those copycat lamps have a KC brand logo on them, but don't seem to exist anywhere on KC's website. KC does have its own line of H4 headlamps -- not very good, but not the worst junk out there; they look nothing like Cibies. And no, the KC lamps they got were not "E code" or any other code, either. No ECE type approval, no DOT certification, not even a relatively meaningless SAE marking. No markings at all...otherwise known as a "headlight-shaped toy".

 

[Echo63]

I know you recommended I slowed down due to my loss of depth perception at night, but when I run heavy sweep in the rally stages I can not waste time in assuring that all rally drivers are safely off the course. The next stage can not be started until we have swept the previous stage and arrived at the start of the next stage. I try to at least run the stage at 75 to 80% race speed. I do try to notice what the professionals use for night time driving lamps, but some low budget teams do use the cheaper off brand lamps.

Interesting your rallies are run that way - here sweep comes through after the last car, but the first car may be two stages further on, and 000 will be the next stage again. (typically 2-3 stages run at a time, depending on the field size, and length of the stages)
0 typically does 80% race speed to open the stage.
actually now I think about, sweep does maybe 80% of the speed of the slow cars at the back of the field....

Our local sweep vehicle (FJ40 land cruiser) has more stage kms than any other vehicle, and likely more stage kms than the top 10 cars in the field

 

[Travler]

Our problem is manpower and limited medical resources. I will say it is tons of fun. Our stages are run on a mixture of sand and clay forestry fire roads.

 

[Hilldweller]

I've been running a pair of Xtreem LED cubes for over 100,000 miles and a set of cheap-n-stinky bigger cubes for about 60,000 miles.
Offroad torture, flood pattern.

They both still work great. The cheap-n-stinkies have some projector optics and actually throw light a good way. The Xtreems are flood only and I point them to the sides to see ditches and trees, etc. The housings of the cheap-n-stinkies is faded to grey; the Xtreems still clean up and look new.

These are probably rebranded and available all over but this company has been around a while and provides decent service --- link my pick lightbar for you: https://extremeledlightbars.com/ext...ed-cree-led-light-bar-21600-lumens-combo-beam
Their home page: https://extremeledlightbars.com/

I was camping along with the Baja team 3 or 4 years ago and they lit up the side of a hill with a set of their lights. Baja Designs makes some sick lights. But pricey...

 

[Hilldweller]

Don't know how I missed this thread for so long. I have a problem in wooded areas at night with losing depth perception or out running the headlights. What causes this and is there anything I can do to improve my off road safety at night? Don't say slow down because I can't I run heavy sweep for a NASA rally held here every year and half the stages are after the sun sets.

No prisoners: https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/LP9-LED-Auxiliary-Lights.asp

 

[Travler]

No prisoners: https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/LP9-LED-Auxiliary-Lights.asp

Rigid makes some side illumination cubes also. Been looking at those to add near the A Pillar but worried about surface glare of the hood.

Those are much large and a pair up front would be nice. Would need to find a mounting location that did not block the grill or existing factory signal lighting. I could mount them on the roof rack as it sits back from the windshield edge. This would block any close up down lighting. I see they offer a driving/spot 42/6 degree combo and a high speed 6 degree spot. If these were roof mounted what would you suggest? A combination of each pair (4 lights). If two different pairs, what would you suggest for line up? Driving, Spot, Spot, Driving or just the opposite with the driving in the center 2 positions.

As a disclaimer so no one is confused this is strictly for off road use. Mostly fire roads and logging trails.

 

[CeeBee]

What's the maximum speed you intend to drive these "sweeps"?
How far is the longest straight stretch on the course?
Spot beam are at their best on fast sports cars running on long high speed straight stretches, where they will pick up a reflection off of a sign or a car in front of them so that the driver can adjust his speed in time. They are not really for seeing a clear picture of what's in front of you. They project a small intense circle of light far into the distance and the good ones have no light scatter outside of that small circle, which means they are useless for cornering.
A couple of driving beams for distance and a couple of cornering beams for tight corners will be far more useful to you than what you are looking at.
Oh, and keep the lights off the roof. All they will do there is reflect off all the dust in the air and decrease your vision.

 

[Travler]

Dust is one of the problems, well not actually dust but sand. Light reflects off that like hitting a wall. It will screw with your night vision and depth perception. Corner or ditch lights like some call them would be a big help if they can give me some range not right in front of me. I hit speeds as high as 90 mph on the straights or open sections with no trees so I can see a better picture of the course than what is right in front of me. These roads are highly wooded, some of them lined with pine trees right to the edge of the road. Navigator is calling 90 degree right x number of feet ahead. I am going where?? All I see is trees. Hard to spot an opening between the trees at night. GPS does help. Most turns have some type of conspicuity tape usually non-reflective yellow. Great at daytime not so at night. Then you have course workers that monitor radio traffic and know last rally car and will take down tape blocking traffic or indicating a turn in a T intersection before I come thru. Complaining does no good there is always someone in a hurry. Imagine a tightly wooded road with a T intersection and you are headed directly towards a wall of trees. It is like being in a shoebox. You lose a sense of braking distance, you can't spot the turn for all the trees. It all blends together.

 

[CeeBee]

Hella 4000's come in a variety of beam patterns including cornering and are said to be good lights. A combination of 2 driving beams in the center and a cornering beam on either side would set you up for any road you'd care to tackle.
There may be more modern combinations from other suppliers that would work also.
There is nothing that will light up a sharp turn in the road that's completely hidden by trees until the last moment. Don't they let you pre-run the stage before the rally?

 

[Travler]

No pre-run for racers big no no. Being local I do have the ability to at least survey the route ahead of time. I don't get a route book till the night before, but stages are usually listed on internet before rally. I try to put them in the GPS with waypoints but changes are made between the internet and publishing route book. These roads are typically open for public traffic because of private residences inside the state forest.

The only pre-running the actual rally racers do is the day before after tech. They hold a parc expo and take local dignitaries for rides on a non stage section. It is a large money maker for the county and various cities always vie for publicity.

Yeah I don't expect to actually see the turn till I am too close. In a planted forest with uniform spacing between trees a larger gap than normal usually means there is a road there. I have had navigator scream TREE a few times. Yeah it is good for a laugh later on. Also most of the roads have tall berms on each side so that is a better clue when you can see ahead and notice a break in the berm.

 

[Hilldweller]

Rigid makes some side illumination cubes also. Been looking at those to add near the A Pillar but worried about surface glare of the hood.

Those are much large and a pair up front would be nice. Would need to find a mounting location that did not block the grill or existing factory signal lighting. I could mount them on the roof rack as it sits back from the windshield edge. This would block any close up down lighting. I see they offer a driving/spot 42/6 degree combo and a high speed 6 degree spot. If these were roof mounted what would you suggest? A combination of each pair (4 lights). If two different pairs, what would you suggest for line up? Driving, Spot, Spot, Driving or just the opposite with the driving in the center 2 positions.

As a disclaimer so no one is confused this is strictly for off road use. Mostly fire roads and logging trails.

I don't like A-pillar lights unless they're pointed to the side, ditch lights. They just mess with my eyes pointed forward unless they're pencil beams.

Up on the roof? A couple of the 6 degree spots would give you you daylight for about a half mile. I'd keep the combos low though.


And avoid their (or other company's) amber option. Not sure what they're thinking with offering that.

Another quality contender is the VisionX line. https://www.visionxusa.com/producttype/led-lights/
Korean, not Chinese, and decent customer service/warranty. I haven't seen their bigger lights in action but the smaller Light Cannons aren't slouches.

 

[Travler]

I don't like A-pillar lights unless they're pointed to the side, ditch lights. They just mess with my eyes pointed forward unless they're pencil beams.

Up on the roof? A couple of the 6 degree spots would give you you daylight for about a half mile. I'd keep the combos low though.


And avoid their (or other company's) amber option. Not sure what they're thinking with offering that.

Another quality contender is the VisionX line. https://www.visionxusa.com/producttype/led-lights/
Korean, not Chinese, and decent customer service/warranty. I haven't seen their bigger lights in action but the smaller Light Cannons aren't slouches.

Thanks for sharing your results of using A pillar lights. The more I look at those LP9 lights the more fitting I think they would be for me. A pair of bumper level combos will be possible. They can be set on the bumper just inside of the headlights without blocking any OEM lighting and still allow good airflow into grill. A pair of roof spots would be fine with me. I don't really want a row of roof lights like a wanna be.

I hadn't looked at VisionX in years glad to see they have stepped up their game.