Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise & other tooling

[BVH]

After thinking for a year or more and having many, many occasions to need a drill press (after having sold mine 8 months ago) I finally ordered the Grizzly 0704 with stand. Many times I thought about just ordering the X2 size because my needs have never been any larger than what the X2 can do but all of you have successfully instilled the "buy the biggest you can afford and fit" mentality into my brain. I even thought about buying a milling attachment for the 1236. But since my main goal was to get an accurate drill press with milling capabilities, I think the 0704 will be more than enough.

I am thinking of a 4" milling vise for the 0704. I want an average quality vise, not a Kurt or anything close to that due to cost. I don't think anything I do in the future will necessitate anything this precision. Just yesterday, I had to file two flats about .800" square and maybe about .125" deep into a 1.5" solid copper bar. It's going to be a heatsink into which two Silicone Diodes will screw. Certainly not precision. But it was absolutely no fun with a double cut file by hand! I don't want something too small nor too big. Even a 4" seems a bit big but many seem to use this size on this machine. I have looked at the Shars, Glacern and others on Ebay.

First question: How useful is having a swivel base? I know it will add height and even with the 0704, I think available height is not overly plentiful. It seems like a useful feature but not having used a mill, I'm just guessing.

Is $150 to $200 a reasonable range to hope for?

And finally, any recommendations?

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

I finally ordered the Grizzly 0704 with stand.

Very nice M/D

How useful is having a swivel base? I know it will add height and even with the 0704, I think available height is not overly plentiful. It seems like a useful feature but not having used a mill, I'm just guessing.

You may get other opinions but IMO a swivel base on a mill vise is about as useful as attaching wheels to a rowboat. Once in a blue moon those wheels would come in handy to pull the rowboat up a ramp, and the swivel base would see some use every decade or so - that was my experience. If the vise cost less with a swivel base be sure to get it :laughing:

And finally, any recommendations?

Every maker copies Kurt & most do a sorry job at the copy machine. The one exception is Eron. Best Japanese quality, every bit as well made as Kurt, virtually unknown outside of Asia & Europe. http://www.nabeya.co.jp/search.php?lang=eng&action=Detail&Key=275M1

The Eron Lock-Tight (Kurt already holds the trademark on AngLock) is most often seen in 6" but they do make a 4" version. Pretty hard to find, just like the 4" Kurt ... which sells for much more than the 6". Go figure.

 

[BVH]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

Very nice M/D

You may get other opinions but IMO a swivel base on a mill vise is about as useful as attaching wheels to a rowboat.

:laughing: That's Great, Barry! Got a good laugh!

Thank you for your insight! No swivel also gives me more height to work with.

 

[CMAG]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

+ 1 on no swivel not much use and when you want to get it back to 0 its no fun
use shims when needed for small angles or make up a jig
if you have a slotted table you may find a set of hold down clamps handy

PS enjoy reading your short arc build threads

 

[PhotonFanatic]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

Very nice M/D

Every maker copies Kurt & most do a sorry job at the copy machine. The one exception is Eron. Best Japanese quality, every bit as well made as Kurt, virtually unknown outside of Asia & Europe. http://www.nabeya.co.jp/search.php?lang=eng&action=Detail&Key=275M1

The Eron Lock-Tight (Kurt already holds the trademark on AngLock) is most often seen in 6" but they do make a 4" version. Pretty hard to find, just like the 4" Kurt ... which sells for much more than the 6". Go figure.

The price on the nabeya.co.jp website shows the 4" version to list for $1101. :devil: :shakehead

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

The price on the nabeya.co.jp website shows the 4" version to list for $1101. :devil: :shakehead

LOL Fred, I also did the Yen to USD conversion & came up with the same price. The Kurt D40 AngLock (4") retails around $550 but a couple sold on the Practical Machinist Forum last year, one for $150 & the other for $242. Well worth the money.

You can buy a genetically deficient clone for around $100 delivered. I actually owned one for a short time & used it on the small Atlas 7B shaper. Closing the handle tightly produced a gritty grinding feeling but $40 worth of new thrust washers & thrust bearing cured that. The moveable jaw lifted quite a bit as the hemi spherical "anti lift" component was cast instead of ground ... a part from Kurt might have cured that except that someone gave me $75 & I delivered it to his shop. It was the best vise I ever ... sold :nana:

 

[PhotonFanatic]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

I also send in an RFQ with their US distributor--just for chuckles.

 

[BVH]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

How about the Glacerns? Their 4" new is $300, a bit more than I wanted to spend but I'm trying to consider lots of options.

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

How about the Glacerns? Their 4" new is $300

Or perhaps a like new Kurt D675 for $300 + actual UPS charges? Sounds like a deal you cannot refuse :devil:

 

[BVH]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

I think at Kurt 6" would completely cover the table and maybe be over the tables' max gross!

 

[KC2IXE]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

Travers Tool is right near me, and their house brand 4" Kurt clone looked nice on display. How good it is in USE, I have NO clue - Item 61-204-224 $151 with swivel base.

What would you be willing to pay for a used REAL 4" Kurt, perfect originat jaws (never dinged) + 4 sets of soft jaws for it?. The vise itself has no cracks/drill marks, BUT the movable slide DOES have some mill marks, and has been repainted, but it served me very very well till I decided to move up to a 6"

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

... may be be over the tables' max gross!

Vises aren't so bad as most weight no more than 40kg and often mount near table center. The table moves easily when the weight is directly over the ways. Hang an 80kg super spacer at the very far end of the table & the hand wheels are harder to turn.

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

Here's a nice little Kurt D50 - 5" jaw, just a tad larger than the D40 4". For a buck seventy five + shipping it looks like a great deal: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1866052#post24720002

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

And a nice one on eBay (for more money but still within your budget): http://www.ebay.com/itm/KURT-5-ANGL...7?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item2c66eaf043

 

[BVH]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

Thanks for those links Barry. On the Kurts, I see the jaws can be moved for wider capacity. If the fixed mount jaw is moved to the back side, then is clamping limited to only the remaining vertical surface of the jaw that sticks above the fixed mount? If so, is this a practical feature?

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

If the fixed mount jaw is moved to the back side, then is clamping limited to only the remaining vertical surface of the jaw that sticks above the fixed mount? If so, is this a practical feature?

Both the fixed jaw & the moving jaw can be remounted at the far ends of the vise to hold large parts, pretty handy when you have a 10"x10" plate that needs a few holes drilled, tapped or milled.

I can't speak for anyone else but I've used the outboard jaw position many times. It's much faster than pulling the vise off the table, setting up the job on parallels, then remounting & realigning the vise, etc.

The "stick up" of the standard jaws is around 1/4" (6.4mm) but there are many sources for taller aftermarket Kurt jaws or you can make what you need in not too much time. Monster Jaws makes nice replacements & the cost is sometimes less than you can make them in your shop: http://stores.ebay.com/Monsterjaws-Mfg-USA?_trksid=p4340.l2563

 

[BVH]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

OK, good to know. And makes perfect sense now that I know about the custom jaws available.

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

One mill vise is a good start

The Kurt is my main vise as it's big enough & accurate enough to do most any job. The weight is all I want to swing but that's been the case for more years than I can remember. If you work in any production shop/job shop/factory in the USA you'll get to handle all the Kurts you want.

I was planning to sell the smaller 4" Hy-Lo Speed Vise & already had a wooden shipping carton built for it when a job came up a few days ago where the Hy-Lo was a good fit & on the table it went. There's a Palmgren drill press vise that's currently held in the Eron Grip Master vise on the larger drill press. Another Palmgren is a tilt-angle model that gets used on rare occasion for some oddball job on the mill. Yet another Palmgren is a discontinued cam-lock model that is as good as it gets for production work - set up a dead stop & that vise makes it (sort of) easy to knock out 500 parts.

Almost forgot the Robbins Magna-Sine permanent magnet compound sine vise ... bought it for one job & haven't used it since. Probably should sell that one as they currently retail for $3800 USD :devil:

http://www.subtool.com/st/a-ms_magna-sine_magnetic_compound_sine_plates.html

 

[wquiles]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

Although my Kurt is my normal, heavy duty vise, the other one that is much faster and adequate for a LOT of the work I do is my 6" Heinrich Grip-Master. The fact that it weights/costs much less than the Kurt is also a plus.

In fact I like mine so much that I have two of them. The old/used one is fixed to one of my 5 work benches, I have it setup with soft/padded jaws, and it is my go-to vise to hold anything that I need to use the hand drill or cut with a hack saw, dremel, etc.. While the new one is my "light" go to vise for working on my knee mill.

Yes, I know that is not a good apples to apples comparison - the Kurt is truly in a different league - BUT, the Heinrich Grip-Master is certainly more than adequate for a lot of the work

Will

 

[BVH]

Re: Ordered a Mill, now question on a good, non top-of-the-line vise

Power Longitudinal feed - useful?

What about basic 1 2 3 blocks, parallels and similar items. Not having any mill experience, they all seem essential but I don't know. Can you recommend some basic set-up tools to have on-hand?

I bought a clamping kit and have some basic 4-flute 1/16 - 3/4" Tin coated endmills.

Splurged and got an Albrecht 1/32" - 5/8", Integral R8 Classic Keyless. After having got one for the lathe, I am truly spoiled. It's just fun to use that drill chuck!