Pila questions.

[DasFriek]

First question is ive read there is a difference in the Pila IBCT and IBC?
But ive seen reviews where people use both the same way with the same batteries.
But im rather sure the IBC model is the one i need for 18650's and 14500 cells.

Second question gets tougher.
I have a new Trustfire TR-001 and it does fine so far and the lights go green at 4.18v and will trickle too 4.2v and at that point i pull them out myself, But im not sure if it will kick off itself or keep trickling and im not about to waste a new cell to find out.
But ive read the Pila will cut off at 4.18v and shut off current to the cell, Can it be adjusted for 4.2v cut off? Or will i need to hit the reset button to get more charge?


I know the Pila has more safety cutoffs in it so it can be somewhat worry free.
But besides that what can it do for my cells that will make them keep a higher capacity threw out their lifetime?

I guess what im asking in the end is why should i spend another $50 when all i will gain is better shut off protection? Or will there be more?

Trust me i want to spend the money, But i need to justify it.
Also pls tell me if i should only get the IBC version also?

Ive been reading reviews and searches so i can find as many answers as possible, But i guess being talked to directly may pry that money out of my back pocket.

 

[A96Honda]

oh no, i thought they were the same thing..... just placed an order for the "IBCT" yesterday.

 

[DasFriek]

This is from the "Q and A" section on the Pila IBTC at Flashlightz.com

Q: Are Pila "IBCT" and "IBC" chargers the same?
Asked on 2/17/2011 by Anonymous
Know the answer? Answer this question
1 answer
CUSTOMER CARE
A: No. The IBCT charger is for 600P, 600S, 300P, and 300S batteries while the IBC charger is for 14500, 17500, 18500 , and 18650 batteries
Answered on 3/2/2011 by Jon C from NT Supply

But i still see people saying the IBTC works fine for them on everything also.
Ive looked at every Pila website and they dont mention the IBTC model, Just the IBC, And that the IBC is what is recommended for "Thier" Pila batteries.
http://www.pilatorch.com/pila_charger.pdf

So unless someone says different i don't think it matters.

I still hope someone can offer me some reasons why i want to buy a Pila over my TR-001?
I really want to buy one, But cant until i justify why i should.

 

[DasFriek]

Id really appreciate any comments on if people think the charger would improve my cell charging and capacity and longer life.
I use only Trustfire black/red Li-Ion cells and have 4x 16850 and 4x 145000 so i dont have a ton of cells, But with them costing so much id hate to kill them with a $12 charger.
I have no complaints about the TR-001, But ive been reading more charger reviews/comparisons and many people say the way the Pila works is the only charger besides "Hobby style chargers" that meet battery manufactures standards on charging.

 

[mikra]

The IBC will stop charging below 4.2V, if you want 4.2V or more you should not get the IBC.
Keep in mind, that charging below 4.2V will extend the lifetime of your cells.

Longer and safer cell lifetime -> get the Pila.

Shorter and not so safe cell lifetime (but perhaps 5-10% more capacity per charge) -> get something else.

 

[DasFriek]

I had read 4.2v was the best mix of power and less damage to the cell.
But i have no issues with a 4.17v charge, That about a few minutes extra light that could only be seen with very good test equipment in most cases.

Ill admit capacity isnt all that big of a concern as is a cells ability to deliver high amps when needed on high settings.
I think this thread has me convinced to make the purchase on how the charger handles the way it chargers and terminates a charge according to how manufacturers of cells recommend.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sumer-Li-Ion-quot-cradle-quot-charger-roundup...

I just got my BC-9009 NiMH charger today and im just learning how to use it, But im highly impressed with it and the options it offers in keeping cells in the best possible condition for long life and not abusing the cells with cheap components doing the job only half way it should be done.

I just cashed in $25 in rewards on my checking account so thats giving me incentive to just go ahead and make the purchase now.
Li-Ion cells that are on the high quality side deserve a better charger than an $11 one.

(EDIT) I just placed my order at Flashlightz as the more i play with this BC-9009 today the more i see the importance of using a good charger.
I say this as i bought 12 Sanyo 2500 mAH AA's off ebay that were supposedly store returns. They looked like new but all were discharged and two were at .0v and took a cheap 15 minute charger to get it kicking. But as it sits with one cycle of "Testing mode" the capacity is between 850-620 mAH on the first four i messed with.
Once i get all my "NEW" cells cycled ill go back and let the charger try and revive them, Such a shame to see such a good bunch of cells to be almost ready for the garbage.

 

[A96Honda]

So you also bought the IBCT?

I bought mine from Flashlightz. Should be here at the end of the week. Am a little nervous since it's not for "18650" batteries.

 

[DasFriek]

Yes,

1 Pila IBCT 4-stage Charger, AC Adapter $45.00 $45.00
Sub-Total $45.00
Shipping (Standard: 2-7 Business Days) $7.95
Grand Total $52.95

Ive checked everywhere and can find no real differences and if you look on Pila's site and PDF form for the charger they say the IBC charges their batteries.
The IBTC is mentioned nowhere by Pila themselves.

If you read the reviews on Flashlights, No one seems to see any differences either.
Worst case scenario is we need to send them back for a refund, But i doubt that will be needed.
IMO the "P" series Pila battery is an 18650, I use those mainly too so dont stress as i wouldnt risk my expensive cells on guess work.

I wish these had digital readouts like my BC-9009 does so you at least get an idea of whats going on. I do have a hobby style voltage display i never used when i did a car stereo install in my car and i may try and rig that so i can follow the cells as they charge.

 

[ElectronGuru]

The IBTC is mentioned nowhere by Pila themselves.

My understanding is that 'IBTC' is a typo from a single dealer

 

[DasFriek]

Thats sounds very plausible, But a google search does have alot of hits for Pila "IBCT" charger.
I did make a typo above and said "IBTC" instead of "IBCT", But either way i think there is only one version of this charger made by Pila.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Checking out the first/top 30 Google hits for "pila IBCT", 100% fall into one of the following:

an affiliate of National Trade Supply

flashlightz (a subsidiary of National Trade Supply)

marketing linking to flashlightz

a forum thread mentioning flashlightz' pila options​

 

[DasFriek]

Well, That about solves that then
Plus your sig implies this isn't your first week here and around flashlights.
Now i can rest at night knowing my Li-Ion cells will be well taken care of.

 

[A96Honda]

I just received my order from Flashlightz for my "IBCT" charger. On the charger itself, it is not labeled "IBCT" anywhere. On the bottom of the charger, it does say "Pila IBC™ Charger". It also says for Pila 300P/300S/600P/600S.
It comes with a paper manual. And it says it's for those types of batteries only.

Now I know other websites sell the "IBC" chargers, but those websites all state it's for 18650 and the likes.

And when you check Pila USA's website, it states the charger is for 300P/300S/600P/600S.

I'm wondering if old stock Pila "IBC" chargers use to say they would charge 18650, etc. batteries. And that's the reason for it. And all the new Pila "IBC" now say only for 300P/300S/600P/600S. And with the typo from Flashlightz just adds to the confusion.

If someone has an older Pila "IBC" charger, I wonder what it says on the bottom of it.

 

[Lite_me]

That's the same thing my IBC has on the bottom. Same as yours and mine is about 2yrs old or thereabouts. I've charged everything but, Pila batteries in it. You should have no worries.

 

[DasFriek]

From what ive read, Pila doesn't recommend charging anything but Pila batteries on their charger.
But its be done for several years by people here with great results, Its a liability issue i believe. Mine came in the mail today also, And its charging my only 18650 that was in need of juice.
Its actually smaller than i expected, But feels well built. I did stick a fully charged 18650 that was at 4.16v in the second slot and it was read as "Charged", I hit the reset button and it quickly came off at 4.18v which is where ill leave it as pushing for 4.2v just isnt worth it.

 

[45/70]

Yeah, Pila states to use only Pila cells in the Pila IBC due to liabilty issues. Pila U.S.A. being in the U.S. (although the chargers are made in China) is open to legal problems if someone were to experience an "incident" while charging some other brand of cell. By limiting the charger's use to only cells that are known to them, to be of high quality, reduces the chance of a lawsuit.

I'm not sure where Pila's cells are made, but I suspect that the base cells are from one of the major manufacturers in Japan, or Korea. At any rate, their cells are known to them to be less of a risk when being charged, as compared to some Ultra unTrustworthy brand, that may catch on Fire. In their opinion, this reduces the chance of any legal action resulting from the use of their charger.

It is also interesting to note that the current "IBC" model replaced the "BC" model, some years ago. The BC model had some potential safety issues, and it was deemed necessary to replace it. It just goes to show that Pila had to work their way up, just like everybody else.

Dave

 

[nightcacher]

The pila IBC is a quality charger. I charge redilast 2900 and fireworm 16340 1000mah with a spacer with no issues. One thing to remember is keep the clear lid UP as this will keep the temperature down and charge on a fireproof surface.

 

[DasFriek]

I place my charger in a ceramic saucer with the lid up while charging, But try as i may i haven't been able to drain a single 18650 cell yet.
This is more of a fun hobby/Learning exercise so i don't get the chances to use my lights as much as people who need them for work or needed exercises.
But we had an electric black-out last night and i was as happy as all get out, My M20s and another lesser light lite our living room as if it was daytime for several hours.
So i was able to charge a Li-Ion cell on the Pila, But it only took about 30 minutes.

45/70- I understand your dislike for the "Fire" brands, But can you explain why you don't like the "Trust-unworthy Fire" brand?
They have done very well in testing and always in the higher groups of performers and well within spec of their quoted capacities.
While i agree they aren't AW quality and performance wise, The AW's don't out perform them by much and yet cost 2x-3x for each cell.

But i do get concerned a bit since i cant test capacity on Li-Ion like i can my NiMH on my BC-9009.
I have asked you in another thread about other preferred brands you suggest which i took note of also, But can you tell me why the next time i buy Li-Ion cells they should be AW or similar over the Trust-unworthy Fire brands?

 

[Kraid]

But can you tell me why the next time i buy Li-Ion cells they should be AW or similar over the Trust-unworthy Fire brands?

For the piece of mind that comes with not fearing that your batteries will explode in your flashlight blowing off your hand. Or that they will burst into flames on your charger and burn your house down.

 

[DasFriek]

I understand the dangers, Sad its so dangerous to use a flashlight! lol j/k as its not if you use good equipment and brains.
But im reffering to "TrustFire" brand in particuler as ive not seen issues with them and they are constantly rated high in tests and even are within specs of their listed ratings.
Seeing AW cells cost 2x as much with only small advantages in performance its hard to go that next step up in price when the Trustfire's have seemed to be safe and reliable and perform very admirably.

Now in saying that ill do some search's and look threw the "Fire and explosion" section above.
I know many other "XXXFire" brands have earned a bad reputation, But if Trustfire has one i havent seen it.