Police Study of tactical use of Strobe

[Bullzeyebill]

with regard to "why is strobe included", does anyone know if it was once required for an LEO or military bid?
I'm wondering if it was a required feature at one point and then became defacto.

Go ahead and start your own thread re that question. Here is is off topic.

Bill

 

[scs]

Grizzlyb, in your original post, you mentioned that a wide and bright spill beam is not desirable as it diminishes the disorienting effects of the strobe and can potentially compromise the positions and maneuvers of the other officers. Do officers then carry a different light for searching or room-clearing for which a wide, bright beam is desirable to maximize field of view?

 

[Grizzlyb]

Grizzlyb, in your original post, you mentioned that a wide and bright spill beam is not desirable as it diminishes the disorienting effects of the strobe and can potentially compromise the positions and maneuvers of the other officers. Do officers then carry a different light for searching or room-clearing for which a wide, bright beam is desirable to maximize field of view?

No extra lights.
Normally the LEO's in Holland had the old heavy Maglites in the car. To heavy to carry around all the time.
Turned out that when ever you needed a light, you had to go back to the car and get it.
And then, you had that hugh old piece of metal that never had enough light to begin with.
So, most bought there own small lights that where easy to carry all day.

When you have to search in very dark places with no light at all, (livingroom/kitchen/bedroom etc) You will notice that 80 or 150 lm hotspot has more then enough spill to light the intire room. (In complete darkness Your eyes will get used to lower light conditions fast enough to adept, I normally aim the spot at the seling and have enough light from the rebounce) When You want more, use 250 or 500lm and rebounce that on the seling

Except for larger halls, like storage places etc. Then you can use more lumens. 500 lumens should be more then enough to cover those areas. For the real big places, bring out the big guns. 2500 lumens or more. But You don't want to carry them around all day.

A better/bigger thrower with a wider beam is very good to use for an outdoor search. Indoors it is far to much light.

So when the choice is, small light, easy to carry around all day, best to use as a tactical light and also by far enough to do search work, the choice for us is easy.
We take the advantage of the better tactical light.

 

[bdogps]

Hey mate, is there a reason why LEO do not use headlamps? My assumption is that they would be more advantageous since you have a free hand. I know surefire made the watch with the torch built in, but I reckon a headlamp would be better. Thanks mate.

 

[Grizzlyb]

Hey mate, is there a reason why LEO do not use headlamps? My assumption is that they would be more advantageous since you have a free hand. I know surefire made the watch with the torch built in, but I reckon a headlamp would be better. Thanks mate.

Hi Bdogps,

I never thought about it.
At this moment I would think it is a bit irritating/ a nuisance to wear a headlamp all the time.
So you would have to put the headband on when you need the light. (and take your police cap of, or put it on a policecap?)
Also, the light will always shine only in the direction where your head moves.
And You can't pinpoint it in an other direction.
You constantly would have to use a hand to switch to other modes, and fumbling around with one hand on your head does not seem to be very tactical.

No, at this moment I can think of to many negatives to make it work.

When going to a physical confrontation, we need both our hands in a tactical position, and we can easily drop the light. It has a small cable and we won't loose it.

And please don't be fooled by manufactors.
They make lights to make profit.
I have seen far to many lights that proclaim to be tactical, but for our job they are not.
Those lights are at most tactical in an economical sens and by no means tactical for our specific LEO job.
That goes for funny things like a light in your watch.
Possibly there already is, or will soon be (now I mention it), a google-glass tactical light

 

[TEEJ]

Hi Bdogps,

I never thought about it.
At this moment I would think it is a bit irritating/ a nuisance to wear a headlamp all the time.
So you would have to put the headband on when you need the light. (and take your police cap of, or put it on a policecap?)
Also, the light will always shine only in the direction where your head moves.
And You can't pinpoint it in an other direction.
You constantly would have to use a hand to switch to other modes, and fumbling around with one hand on your head does not seem to be very tactical.

No, at this moment I can think of to many negatives to make it work.

When going to a physical confrontation, we need both our hands in a tactical position, and we can easily drop the light. It has a small cable and we won't loose it.

And please don't be fooled by manufactors.
They make lights to make profit.
I have seen far to many lights that proclaim to be tactical, but for our job they are not.
Those lights are at most tactical in an economical sens and by no means tactical for our specific LEO job.
That goes for funny things like a light in your watch.
Possibly there already is, or will soon be (now I mention it), a google-glass tactical light

Another potential issue could be the need to turn the light off when return fire may be incoming, to avoid attracting it/being an easy target. The pop and move would be difficult with a headlight for example.

 

[Grizzlyb]

TEEJ, you 100% nailed it.
And please keep in mind, that we primarily use the tactical advantage in a situation where a (non weapon) arrest is emminent and physical contact is likely.
The blinding/dissorienting affects just help to make our moves unditected, the opponent distracted and the arrest can procede with as minimal force as possible.
During a physical arrest the LEO also is likely to loose his cap and also his headlight.
Neah, all in all, nice idea, but no headlights.

 

[bdogps]

Thank you for your input Grizzlyb and TEEJ.

 

[Jelle]

Grizzlyb

I'm new to this forum, but I've read your article with great attention.

I'm a Belgian LEO following a course "Specialist geweldbeheersing" with the specialisation of "Dwang met vuurwapen" (force with firearms). One of the main goals of the course is to give education to new recruits and to train more experienced LEO's. In order to finish the course, I have to create and give a lesson to my examinators. The topic I've been given is "the use of light".

Do you have must-read or must-see materials that you can share with me?
Or links to very interesting websites, investigations or publications?

All help and hints are welcome!

 

[Lumencrazy]

Hey mate, is there a reason why LEO do not use headlamps? My assumption is that they would be more advantageous since you have a free hand. I know surefire made the watch with the torch built in, but I reckon a headlamp would be better. Thanks mate.

Nothing like two people wearing headlamps needing to quickly turn around to talk. Or facing anyone in order to say something!!
Nasty experience to say the least!

 

[bykfixer]

Really enjoy the first post. But it'll take a few tries to read (and comprehend) it all.

Thanks.

Now to figure out which lights I have with the closest to reccomended frequency....

 

[bluemax_1]

Grizzlyb

I'm new to this forum, but I've read your article with great attention.

I'm a Belgian LEO following a course "Specialist geweldbeheersing" with the specialisation of "Dwang met vuurwapen" (force with firearms). One of the main goals of the course is to give education to new recruits and to train more experienced LEO's. In order to finish the course, I have to create and give a lesson to my examinators. The topic I've been given is "the use of light".

Do you have must-read or must-see materials that you can share with me?
Or links to very interesting websites, investigations or publications?

All help and hints are welcome!

Try looking for Ken J Good's 'Deployment of Illumination Tools'.


Max

 

[newdenny]

Grizzlyb,

Happy New Year! It is finally here. Which holster do you recommend?

 

[Grizzlyb]

Grizzlyb

I'm new to this forum, but I've read your article with great attention.

I'm a Belgian LEO following a course "Specialist geweldbeheersing" with the specialisation of "Dwang met vuurwapen" (force with firearms). One of the main goals of the course is to give education to new recruits and to train more experienced LEO's. In order to finish the course, I have to create and give a lesson to my examinators. The topic I've been given is "the use of light".

Do you have must-read or must-see materials that you can share with me?
Or links to very interesting websites, investigations or publications?

All help and hints are welcome!

Sorry for the late responce Jelle,

But when you still need stuff, We have several WORD documents with fully explained lessons of each 1.5 hours and some teachers video's to be used for those lessons.
(For official LEO trainers only)
Lessons for unarmed combat on the street and in buildings for unarmed arrests.
And also video lessons for use with firearms.
Privat email me for details.

Also, We have finnished the latest and, up till now, best version of this dedicated police tactical light.

In the early days we started with the old SF exec E2E that had a Xenon bulb with 60lm.
Not much lm, but the warm Yellow light was pretty annoying.
Remembering that, we wondered if a more warm light would annoy more then the more white/blue lights that most lights use.
So we tried this LED and where happily suprised that this new light is noticably more desorientating then the original one.
In bright daylight on a distance of 2 meters you can't look in the strobelight anymore. You simply can't. You 100% Will close your eyes, put your hands up to protect your eyes or turn away.
Eather way, our advantage.

This light is comming close to the results we have with Pepperspray. Without all the known problems of spray.
But it will only last for a few seconds, so it still is only the short term tactical advancement of arresting a temporary blind person.
The LED is changed to a XP-L HI with a color temp 4200 Kelvin. It has 2800 lux at 3 meters.

 

[James Bond]

Have just read the entire thread. Thanks for all the great info Grizzlyb.

If anyone has a Pelican 7000 or Pelican 7060 Gen. III, I can tell you that the strobe on them runs at 12Hz.

 

[ceramicknife]

I feel that having an instant strobe with no other selected light features is the way to go for any self defense applications.

Far to easy to make mistakes under stress.

 

[Theodore41]

Is there a possibility to see these lights going to stores so as to have one?

 

[ceramicknife]

This is the best discussion I have been able to find that refers to the use of a strobe light in "tactical" situations.
However, I am looking at developing a personal strobe light that could be used by women to interrupt or stop sexual harassment (verbal, leering but not touching) and provide a few seconds of dazzel in face of the offender which could give an opportunity to escape/move away from the confrontation. (at normal indoor light levels such as in public transit) This would also be useful in night time encounters where a few seconds to escape could make a huge difference.

A wide beam of strobing light would be more useful in these kinds of confrontations where the offender would be one foot away in the case of sexual harassment and no more than six feet away in the case of a "potential assault" situation. Keeping a narrow beam of light on someones face when close up would be difficult given the level of anxiety.

I see this as an option to replace Pepper Spray that is illegal in many countries and has serious limitations when used by an untrained individual.

My best option so far is strip Chip on Board (COB) led with a length of 3" and powered by 3 watts. About 450 lumens. Lux at 1 foot from a 120 degree flood is 1,600.

I would prefer a 5 watt LED but the heat dissipation is problematic.

Any comments? I may go with a KickStarter campaign to see if this would be attractive to women.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1015833300/781403802?token=b5a03a44

 

[Theodore41]

As I have some "tactical" lights,I ask if it is possible to change the strobe mode frequency,from say 10Hz,to 18Hz,as the Dutch officer suggests that it is better for self defense.

 

[Dave D]

Is there a possibility to see these lights going to stores so as to have one?

The Tactical Lights are available from the below website.

The Original.

http://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-eden-tdl-20-tactische-zaklamp.htm

Which has now been upgraded.

http://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-eden-tdl25-police-version-tactische-zaklamp.htm