POLL ADDED: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

[f22shift]

i remember testing the same flashlight but one was cool and one was neutral. it was a rainy night and i remember i could barely see the light on neutral especially after using the cool.(both on the highest). maybe it was because the cool reflected better on the wet ground but that made the impression that i prefer a brighter looking light when handheld.
conversely, i very much prefer warm or neutral as a headlamp. headlamp are more of a necessity for handsfree uses such as reading or cooking where a warm emitter is just more natural. a headlamp doesn't need to be the brightest for close range use either.
i picked neutral which is more closer to my personal preference of the two. i once had a flashlight that was as warm as an incandescent(swapped the emitter for fun). i loved using it to read paperbacks late at night. anything else it really looked to orange..

 

[jinx626]

anything else it really looked to orange..

That's also what I read regarding warm tint.

 

[Chaitanya]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

being a photographer, after using a cool white tint on EC25 light I thought I made a mistake. Colour reproduction was just horrible, although it made an excellent light for general purpose carrying during trekking and herping in western ghats. Since then I have purchased Eagletac D25LC2 in neutral white and I am really happy with the colour reproduction while using for macro photography in studio.

 

[Fireclaw18]

My favorite color temp is 4200-4500K neutral white.

I find 3000K warm white to be too orange.

 

[wjv]

Neutral white for GP lights.

Cool for throwers.

I only have one "warm" light and that is my EagleTac D25A. It's a nice light but I'd take Neutral over warm.

 

[Orangie]

My Spark SF3 Neutral is a lot warmer than my D25C Neutral, I would say warm. As most have said, cool for throwers I just got a Predator Pro. I felt that had to be cool. It is. I do like the warmer beam for around the house though, it reminds me of the 70's lol
Cheers

 

[jon_slider]

My tint preference changes depending on what my eyes are adapted to.
During daytime, Cool White looks like a match to my eyes white balance, and seems white
During the evening with house lights on, I prefer Neutral White, it seems white, and Cool White seems blue
At night, when my eyes are fully dark adapted, I prefer Warm White, it seems white, and Neutral White seems blue

Cool white will have more lumens than Neutral, which will have more lumens than Warm.

Here is an example,
CW at 6000k
NW at 4500k
WW at 3000k

the NW is 75% warmer than CW, and will have 75% of the lumens of CW
the WW is 50% warmer than CW, and will have 50% of the lumens of CW

in a fully dark adapted setting, I also prefer lower lumen levels
in sunlight adapted setting, I prefer the highest lumen levels

here is a concept group, imagine a light with 3 leds, that each only turn on to one of the 3 LMH modes:
WW at <5 lumens for full dark adapted vision (it will not look orange when fully dark adapted)
NW at <40 and >5 lumens for incandescent adapted vision (it will look white when eyes are adapted to incandescent light)
CW at 100+ lumens for sunlight adapted vision (it will not look blue when eyes are adapted to sunlight)

Cool white is good for throw, and for working on cars during the day, but CW is almost always Low CRI, so it is poor at rendering Red, such as in the following pic.. Note the hand looks pale and dead

here is what High CRI does (High CRI, above 80, usually means the LED will also be Neutral or Warm. For example here is a High CRI shot of my hand, note the more natural red tones:

By contrast working on a car outdoors, the CW is MUCH brighter and therefore shows more detail. Note that the tint does not seem blue, it closely matches the sunlight seen beyond the car

otoh, giving up 50% of the lumens to increase Red rendering Fails to be practical during the day, and note that the tint appears orange (because eyes, and camera, are white ballanced to the sunlight beyond the car:

So, when someone says they dont like Warm tint, chances are they are trying to use it when their eyes are whitebalanced to sunlight. When someone says they dont like Cool White tint, chances are they are trying to use it at night, when eyes are whitebalanced to Neutral or Warm ambient light.

I have an LED lamp in my kitchen (Phillips Hue), and it can be made to produce 6000k light or 3000k light. Here is an attempt to show how that affects our perception of a 3000k LED on left and a 6000k LED, against a 3000k ambient backgrond: (note how blueish the right hand beam is)

Same lights, but with a 6000k background, note the CW light does not look blue, and instead the WW looks orange.

moral of the story, I prefer Warm in full dark, I prefer Neutral indoors after sunset, I prefer CW outdoors during the day.. which is why I have more than one light...

fwiw, all these examples are single AAA lights.. here are my 3 LEDs shining on a piece of printer paper folded to a 90 degree angle (camera is choosing its own white balance based on the relative tints, it is a good match to what my eyes see when I turn on all 3 at the same time)

 

[dmattaponi]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

Forgive my ignorance (I know nothing about the subject). I only comment because recently I had to choose between a cool white and a neutral white version of a flashlight. All of my other LED were cool white, and I wasn't sure what to choose. I ordered both. The specs on the lights were listed as identical. After trying them out, I can say that I prefer the neutral white over the cool white, and I was pleasantly surprised that I can tell no difference in brightness between the two. Lights are Thrunite TN4A

 

[jon_slider]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

… cool white and a neutral white
… The specs on the lights were listed as identical.
… I can tell no difference in brightness between the two. Lights are Thrunite TN4A

When you compared the NW and CW lights, were your eyes adapted to outdoor daytime light, indoor lighting, or when waking up in full darkness (fully dark adapted)?

I googled your NW and CW lights and agree the specs are identical. I dont know if its just a copy paste error, or if the NW is not High CRI… unfortunately CRI is not disclosed in the specs I saw...

I invite you to post a beamshot of the CW and NW lights side by side against a folded piece of paper, and if you have an N219 light, do a 3 beam shot (at whatever brightness level is most closely similar to the Thrunites)..

Welcome to the warmer side of Cool

disclaimer, Im not an expert in any way, and I respect your opinion as equally valid and informative..

 

[dmattaponi]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

Hi Jon Slider, My testing has been anything but scientific. I have compared them in indoor daytime lighting, indoor in the dark, and outdoors after dark, and to my naked eyes they look the same in brightness with the NW being noticeably more yellow in color when looking at the two side by side (but not nearly so noticeable when using the NW as a stand alone light). When comparing the Thrunite CW to my Fenix CW the Thrunite looks yellow in color next to the more cool Fenix lights. Sorry, I don't have the capability of taking a decent photo and posting it. The Thrunite specs are listed as being the same on both the website and in the owners manual that came with the lights so if it's an error, its consistent. Previously they used a different led on the neutral white, and it was 100 lumens less, but when they updated to the same led on the neutral they now list the specs the same. I'm not trying to debate the subject or anything. Just sharing from my own limited experience with these lights.

 

[jumpstat]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

From my eyes, warmer lights provides more details especially in the bush. I have 3 leds that I edc alot, a PD-S with SSC-P4, Ti-PD Mule Cree XR-E and Haiku XP-G Cool. Over the years, I still favour the PD-S with SSC-P4 and being warmer than the other two lights. Dont get me wrong all three are excellent. When I need to get some additional lights for my photo subject, its the PD-S if not the PD-Mule which gives a wider beama pattern. All I know is that when photos comes out, I do not have to do alot of editing with these.

These are my own observations.

 

[jon_slider]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

… warmer lights provides more details especially in the bush. I have 3 leds that I edc alot, a PD-S with SSC-P4, Ti-PD Mule Cree XR-E… I still favour the PD-S with SSC-P4...

thanks for your comments, Im curious to learn more about photography applications for LEDs..

in my limited experience, PWM interferes with photography, I did a quick google and it seems the PD-S is the only one with no PWM? (maybe you dont use the lower modes on the ones with PWM?)

What is the Lumen level, CCT and CRI of the light you like to use for photos, and what background ambient light you are working in, full dark, incandescent or sunlight?

Can you share a picture or two, including the 3 beams side by side for relative tint.. and maybe an example of some photography you've done with LED lighting?

 

[RickZ]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

Interesting nitpick. I think that warm or at least green light is better at penetrating air. But my problem with tint is that led is rarely good deep spectrum. Particularly week at lighting up asphalt. For three or four lumens, led does nothing while incandescent can at least light up the asphalt in front of me walking. On my bike, hid somewhere out there must be the only option. When rode biking at night I can't seem to go more than 20mph where there are no street lights, even with a 1000 lumen LED. Punching out a mere 30meters is impossible. $500 green as grass super lights with 6,000 lumens, sadly don't even compete with a typical hid car headlight with 2,000 lumens costing $2-300. So what I'm getting at is there are different colors for different situations. Warm lights that are narrow in spectrum are terrible. The tint is technically different, because it is just an average color illusion, after a minute, the tint adjusts to your eyes and a white wall will still look white. But with narrow spectrum, a blue might appear green or black. All CREE LEDs are relatively narrow in spectrum. . And most LED lights share the difficulty of reflecting off black top, perhaps the reason they aren't used in streetlights without significant higher lumens which just hurts eyes. I despise those who have bright car LEDs, and regularly ask then to turn the brightness down If possible.

From my eyes, warmer lights provides more details especially in the bush. I have 3 leds that I edc alot, a PD-S with SSC-P4, Ti-PD Mule Cree XR-E and Haiku XP-G Cool. Over the years, I still favour the PD-S with SSC-P4 and being warmer than the other two lights. Dont get me wrong all three are excellent. When I need to get some additional lights for my photo subject, its the PD-S if not the PD-Mule which gives a wider beama pattern. All I know is that when photos comes out, I do not have to do alot of editing with these.

These are my own observations.

 

[scs]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

Interesting nitpick. I think that warm or at least green light is better at penetrating air. But my problem with tint is that led is rarely good deep spectrum. Particularly week at lighting up asphalt. For three or four lumens, led does nothing while incandescent can at least light up the asphalt in front of me walking. On my bike, hid somewhere out there must be the only option. When rode biking at night I can't seem to go more than 20mph where there are no street lights, even with a 1000 lumen LED. Punching out a mere 30meters is impossible. $500 green as grass super lights with 6,000 lumens, sadly don't even compete with a typical hid car headlight with 2,000 lumens costing $2-300. So what I'm getting at is there are different colors for different situations. Warm lights that are narrow in spectrum are terrible. The tint is technically different, because it is just an average color illusion, after a minute, the tint adjusts to your eyes and a white wall will still look white. But with narrow spectrum, a blue might appear green or black. All CREE LEDs are relatively narrow in spectrum. . And most LED lights share the difficulty of reflecting off black top, perhaps the reason they aren't used in streetlights without significant higher lumens which just hurts eyes. I despise those who have bright car LEDs, and regularly ask then to turn the brightness down If possible.

RickZ, specifically which LED lights have you used for biking that were not sufficient?
I hear ya regarding the warm lights with a narrow spectrum. I think the typical sodium street lights are like that: you know there's light, but can't really see much.
My eyes have recently become more sensitive to glare from light with tints above 4000K, so I think I'll have to get everything in 4000 K from now on.

 

[jon_slider]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

… led is rarely good deep spectrum...

High CRI is deeper spectrum, example N219A rated 4500k 90CRI, here are the actual values of my Prometheus Beta Copper:

Low CRI is not as broad spectrum, example below, Maratac with XPG2. I agree many more lights are sold in this Cool White low CRI configuration than the High CRI Neutral White above.

I agree that High CRI reveals more detail and depth of field when looking at things that are alive and have red pigments. The advantage is due to CRI, not color temperature. It is possible to have a warm tint that is still low CRI.

here are the same two lights whose spectrum, CCT and CRI are shown above: Beta on Left, Maratac on right:
to me, the left side High CRI shows much more detail.

I prefer high CRI. The fact that LEDs with higher CRI have warmer tints, should not be construed to mean warmer is better. I definitely think higher CRI is better

I do personally prefer Warm White for relaxation, and feel Cool White is less relaxing, but more energizing.

 

[Tachead]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

Interesting nitpick. I think that warm or at least green light is better at penetrating air. But my problem with tint is that led is rarely good deep spectrum. Particularly week at lighting up asphalt. For three or four lumens, led does nothing while incandescent can at least light up the asphalt in front of me walking. On my bike, hid somewhere out there must be the only option. When rode biking at night I can't seem to go more than 20mph where there are no street lights, even with a 1000 lumen LED. Punching out a mere 30meters is impossible. $500 green as grass super lights with 6,000 lumens, sadly don't even compete with a typical hid car headlight with 2,000 lumens costing $2-300. So what I'm getting at is there are different colors for different situations. Warm lights that are narrow in spectrum are terrible. The tint is technically different, because it is just an average color illusion, after a minute, the tint adjusts to your eyes and a white wall will still look white. But with narrow spectrum, a blue might appear green or black. All CREE LEDs are relatively narrow in spectrum. . And most LED lights share the difficulty of reflecting off black top, perhaps the reason they aren't used in streetlights without significant higher lumens which just hurts eyes. I despise those who have bright car LEDs, and regularly ask then to turn the brightness down If possible.

You should try some some of the newer Hi CRI Cree LED's. My XM-L2 Easywhite displays colours quite accurately and it is only 85 CRI. They have 95+ CRI emitters now.

 

[scs]

Re: Do you prefer Warm or Neutral White?

Does anyone's tint preference vary with lux? For example, preferring neutral or CW at high lux but warm at low lux, or vice versa?

 

[Tachead]

Here is a 90CRI 4000K Nichia 219B

http://i.imgur.com/0GNbe5p.png

 

[paulnguyen92]

Hi everyone,
I'm a new member, I cannot vote but I want to say that I love warm white. I noticed that warm white helps keep my eye sight better at night. I woke up at midnight and turn on my surefire triple led warm white, even at the highest level output, I didn't feel it was unpleasant to my eyes.

 

[jon_slider]

Does anyone's tint preference vary with lux? For example, preferring neutral or CW at high lux but warm at low lux, or vice versa?

definitely yes

in a fully dark adapted setting, I prefer lower lumen levels and 3000k CCT

Ive been using 3 different lights, the warm one mostly on low, the neutral one mostly on medium, and the cool one mostly on high

like this:
1. High CRI XPG 3000k at 0.75 lumens for full dark adapted vision (it will not look orange when fully dark adapted)
2. High CRI N219 4000k at 18 lumens for incandescent adapted vision (it will look white when eyes are adapted to incandescent light)
3. Low CRI XPG2 6000k at 110 lumens for sunlight adapted vision (it will not look blue when eyes are adapted to sunlight)

Here is a 90CRI 4000K Nichia 219B

Thanks! I wish selfbuilt would include spectrographs like that with his reviews, and I wish more light manufacturers would too. Very few reviewers or manufacturers mention the CCT and CRI of their lights. I hope that changes, as more people come to value the benefits of high CRI.