RELIABLE on-line sources of QUALITY li-ion cells?

[Capolini]

Chris's recommendations to purchase batteries are ALL good ones!

I have used ALL of them. In the last 5 or 6 months I have used liionwholesale.com exclusively! They have 5 of the top notch manufacturers and that is good enough for me.

Their prices can't be beat and their customer service is great. Jon lives across the street from me and his warehouse is 2 miles away. On a few occasions he just dropped the package at my door!

http://liionwholesale.com/

 

[d123]

I was just about to order a 12-pack of Surefire 123a's off Amazon Prime when I read this post. Do I have to worry about those being counterfeit?

I find buying from Amazon is 99.9% safe, buying on Amazon, odds aren't as good...

 

[Wireman]

I find buying from Amazon is 99.9% safe, buying on Amazon, odds aren't as good...

Cool. Thanks. Now that I look at it, it seems as if the couple people who got bad Surefire 123a's (some of them leaking in the box) ordered from other sellers. All of the other thousands of good reviews are from Amazon itself. So I should be good getting them directly from Amazon via Prime.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Wireman,

To elaborate a little on the BatteryStation issue...

I purchased some CR123 cells from Kevin to do some discharge tests and post those results on CPF. I noticed "differences" between some of the cells and contacted Kevin about it. He was unaware of problems, but went back to his Chinese manufacturer to find out what was going on. The manufacturer told him that everything was OK.

In the meantime I bought several more boxes of the cells and started some in depth testing. Others on CPF also jumped in and got involved. The people from ZTS also got involved.

Gradually it became apparent that certain cells did have issues. When Kevin brought this up to the manufacturer there was some discussion about a past "quality control" issue but that was taken care of a long time ago and they were surprised that any of those cells were shipped out.

At this point Kevin ended up between a rock and a hard place. He had money tied up in inventory, the manufacture took the position that there were no issues, and people were wanting to buy his inventory from him.

It sounds like you got caught in the middle of this and that is unfortunate.

In the end Kevin changed his source to Panasonic in the US. Using the ZTS modified tester he checked every cell of his old stock and ended up selling it off at prices that were below break even.

I still have a couple boxes of those cells. They have continued to deteriorate.

The main problem was that it appeared that a passivation layer was forming inside the cell. If the cell was used shortly after manufacturer, there were no issues. However if the cell sat in inventory for a while this layer got thicker and interfered with the performance of the cell.

This is not too much of a deal with a single cell low draw light. You simply get shorter run time. The problem came with a multi cell high draw light. Now you run the possibility of driving a cell in the battery pack into reverse polarity. When this happens the cell blows and you end up with toxic fumes, a ruined light, and possibly flames.

I don't know anything about shipping or return policies, but when I was working with Kevin he seemed like a reasonable person.

I check back now and again with Kevin. While he no longer has the most inexpensive CR123 around he no longer has issues with CR123 cells. The switch to Panasonic was a good thing to do.

It sounds like you got treated like crap and prefer not to deal with Kevin. I understand that. I just wanted to offer some expanded perspective on what was going on at the time.

Tom

 

[Wireman]

SilverFox, thanks for the very informative post. That explains the issue in great detail.

It is understandable that things go wrong, I can't hold that against someone. The question is how they try to resolve it.

Reading your post now, I see that I made the right choice in throwing away the remaining 14 batteries that Kevin told me were defective. It would really suck if they ruined my expensive Surefire E2L as you described in your post.

While it seems like Battery Station and Kevin are doing good today and their customers are happy, they still owe me $14+. I've said my peace so I am not going to keep pushing the issue.

 

[Winston2016]

Look at all of the five star reviews for fake UltraFires on Amazon by people who apparently had nothing to compare them with and couldn't actually measure them, then look at the reviews from people who did have the capability to measure the actual capacities of the cells. Five star versus one star reviews. Heck, the majority of reviews are five stars for cells that are total counterfeit garbage. Someone throws them in a rudimentary charger, puts them in whatever, and they work. Five stars! And they were so cheap!

That's what all li-ion sellers there count upon.

BTW, counterfeiting is a part of Chinese culture and is not looked down upon there as much as it is here:

Call for Copy - The Culture of Counterfeit in China
Ling Jiang

Abstract: The aim of this paper is to deepen the understanding of Chinese counterfeit
phenomenon by exploring the effect of culture. Counterfeit activities are shaped by
Chinese historical, social and political reasons. Intellectual property rights protections
don't have an obvious presence on Chinese soil.

http://journals.sfu.ca/nwchp/index.php/journal/article/download/34/34

 

[ChrisGarrett]

BTW, counterfeiting is a part of Chinese culture and is not looked down upon there as much as it is here:

Call for Copy - The Culture of Counterfeit in China
Ling Jiang

Abstract: The aim of this paper is to deepen the understanding of Chinese counterfeit
phenomenon by exploring the effect of culture. Counterfeit activities are shaped by
Chinese historical, social and political reasons. Intellectual property rights protections
don't have an obvious presence on Chinese soil.

http://journals.sfu.ca/nwchp/index.php/journal/article/download/34/34

Doesn't make it morally justifiable, or legal.

Lot's of cultures have practices that most of the World finds reprehensible and/or illegal.

Chris

 

[Winston2016]

Doesn't make it morally justifiable, or legal.

Lot's of cultures have practices that most of the World finds reprehensible and/or illegal.

Chris

No disagreement here and I didn't say it did. The info was provided as an explanation for its apparent extreme prevalence in China.

I've been ripped off a number of times by that cultural defect, with every li-ion cell purchase, much less often with lipos, but never for more than small amounts. The info provided in this thread will end that li-ion problem for me and, hopefully, everyone else. That's why I asked the question I did.

 

[scs]

Thriftiness is an old Chinese virtue. Deeming things too expensive or more than they are worth is common. High prices are not welcome, so they look to lower priced alternatives. A key difference: people in China are often aware of and look for imitations to buy at much lower prices. It takes much effort on the part of non-natives to not get duped in the Chinese commerce arena.

 

[Wireman]

Around 20 years ago when I was a kid in my first car I got into an accident, a woman went thru a stop sign and I smashed into her with the front of my Pontiac Grand Prix. The insurance company did not want to pay for a new GM OEM bumper, they wanted to use some aftermarket bumper because it was much cheaper than the GM OEM bumper. I did not want the aftermarket bumper because I knew it was lower quality.

This problem plagues America too, and it's not new.

 

[Winston2016]

Around 20 years ago when I was a kid in my first car I got into an accident, a woman went thru a stop sign and I smashed into her with the front of my Pontiac Grand Prix. The insurance company did not want to pay for a new GM OEM bumper, they wanted to use some aftermarket bumper because it was much cheaper than the GM OEM bumper. I did not want the aftermarket bumper because I knew it was lower quality.

This problem plagues America too, and it's not new.

Apples and oranges. They weren't portraying the aftermarket bumper as GM OEM. If they had been, THAT would have been comparable to the Chinese counterfeiting issue.

Anyway, back to the main topic please, although it's probably been addressed adequately by the numerous honest vendors already suggested.

 

[Wireman]

Apples and oranges. They weren't portraying the aftermarket bumper as GM OEM. If they had been, THAT would have been comparable to the Chinese counterfeiting issue.

Anyway, back to the main topic please, although it's probably been addressed adequately by the numerous honest vendors already suggested.

It's the same mentality. People looking for imitations to buy at lower prices.

 

[BillSWPA]

I check back now and again with Kevin. While he no longer has the most inexpensive CR123 around he no longer has issues with CR123 cells. The switch to Panasonic was a good thing to do.

While not the cheapest CR123, Battery Station's cells are the cheapest that I would be willing to trust with the safety of myself and my family. For example: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?340028-Flashlight-Explosion

Re: the original topic, I have purchased from some of the above-linked suppliers with good results. I would add Going Gear to the list of good sources.

 

[rickycurrier]

I have purchased all of my battery's from illumination gear
*link removed
He charges and tests them before he ships which is nice.

 

[Winston2016]

I have purchased all of my battery's from illumination gear
*link removed
He charges and tests them before he ships which is nice.

Why'd you remove the link?

 

[Wireman]

Why'd you remove the link?

"Greta", who is apparently a moderator, removed the link.

Often times when a person's first post is a link to a commercial website, they are a spammer.

 

[Winston2016]

It's the same mentality. People looking for imitations to buy at lower prices.

When doesn't someone look for the best price of a specific brand name product? In the Chinese counterfeit case, one thinks one is buying a certain name brand product at the best price, but isn't actually receiving what they thought they were buying. Your example would be applicable to this discussion only if the GM product was fake. Knowingly buying an inferior brand/product at a lower price is not like buying what one thinks is a superior brand and getting counterfeit junk. So, like I said, apples and oranges.

 

[Wireman]

When doesn't someone look for the best price of a specific brand name product? In the Chinese counterfeit case, one thinks one is buying a certain name brand product at the best price, but isn't actually receiving what they thought they were buying. Your example would be applicable to this discussion only if the GM product was fake. Knowingly buying an inferior brand/product at a lower price is not like buying what one thinks is a superior brand and getting counterfeit junk. So, like I said, apples and oranges.

You are just looking to argue. My post was replying to scs's post and it is in direct relation to what he said. It's not apples and oranges.

If you really want to get "back to the main topic please" like you said earlier, stop arguing.