SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

[Dan O.]

I am now an owner of a new MC3000 and of course have lots of questions.

I've read through about the first third of this thread up to where the first production units were shipped and the last several pages. There is lots of great information here but nearly impossible to access. My biggest question, which would answer many other questions, is: Where is the wiki?

 

[chillinn]

Where is the wiki?

Never seen a wiki like this where it seems images of the user manual are just... displayed there, but technically it is a wiki:

SKYRC Technology MC3000 Universal Battery Charger Analyzer User Manual

 

[Dan O.]

Technical wiki

That is not at all what I envision for a reference wiki.

The wiki I want to see would encapsulate all of the information available in this thread but organized to quickly locate relevant bits.


Currently I want to know about firmware updates. I believe I have the latest but when I try to access settings from my iPad I just get a prompt that says I need to download and install the latest firmware. Since the charger came with 1.15 and the same is what is available for download I chalk this up to The "quality" of the app.

Next, I'll need to build programs for rejuvenating and testing cells. There should be a set of programs available as a starting point without having to go through the steep learning curve to build the first one from scratch.

 

[chillinn]

Re: Technical wiki

That is not at all what I envision for a reference wiki.

Sorry, that was terrible. Site must scrape manuals, then script format them, but all that is available is the images of the manual pages. I did not look deeply into it, bad cuff assumption that it was official.

wikicode is pretty easy to work with, not unlike bbcode. Just sayin, if you want it done right... and TIA

 

[fmc1]

Re: Technical wiki

That is not at all what I envision for a reference wiki.

The wiki I want to see would encapsulate all of the information available in this thread but organized to quickly locate relevant bits.


Currently I want to know about firmware updates. I believe I have the latest but when I try to access settings from my iPad I just get a prompt that says I need to download and install the latest firmware. Since the charger came with 1.15 and the same is what is available for download I chalk this up to The "quality" of the app.

Next, I'll need to build programs for rejuvenating and testing cells. There should be a set of programs available as a starting point without having to go through the steep learning curve to build the first one from scratch.

After you enter the chemistry and capacity of the battery you want to test. The default settings for everything else are a very good starting point. In some cases it's almost spot on for what I want. For example Eneloop Std. AA, I just lowered the cut volt to .9V and set D. Reduce to -.10A. Everything else is default. I'm talking about key panel defaults the phone app defaults may be different, I don't know because I never used the phone apps.

Frank

 

[MarioJP]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Question.

Is there a way to pause the program without ending. I don't know but i can see a scenario where pausing can come in handy, especially when slow charging but have to step out for a bit but don't feel comfortable leaving unattended.

I suppose the play button can be used for pausing while in TOV.

Thanks lol.

 

[Dan O.]

Re: Technical wiki

Sorry, that was terrible.

I understood.

The wiki platform is really ideal for crowdsourcing technical data and I am surprised that such a site doesn't already exist. The problem might be that everybody is into monetizing everything and it is ruining the Internet in my opinion. If I do this I'll want it to eventually be owned by a not-for-profit foundation to keep everybody's contributions safe from being paywalled.

 

[gsmit1]

Does anybody know why the USB charging port on this charger may not be working properly? Aside from the possibly obvious that it's broke.

My MC3000 is brand new. 3 days old. I've tried 2 different cables and when I plug my Galaxy S10 in for charging, the phone tells to check the connection like it's dirty or something. It shows that it's charging at like half an amp, but the battery voltage is slowly dropping like it's not actually plugged into a charger.

This cable works fine in other charging sources. This happens with no batteries being charged at the time btw.

Any insight would be fabulous.
Thanks.

 

[MarioJP]

Does anybody know why the USB charging port on this charger may not be working properly? Aside from the possibly obvious that it's broke.

My MC3000 is brand new. 3 days old. I've tried 2 different cables and when I plug my Galaxy S10 in for charging, the phone tells to check the connection like it's dirty or something. It shows that it's charging at like half an amp, but the battery voltage is slowly dropping like it's not actually plugged into a charger.

This cable works fine in other charging sources. This happens with no batteries being charged at the time btw.

Any insight would be fabulous.
Thanks.

That is because the usb port on the charger is a dumb usb port. What this means is that any smart mobile device can't determine the power source that it is plugged into, so your device defaults to usb mode as precaution where it would charge dead slow

You would need to plug a usb adapter on the charger's usb port to trick your mobile device that it is plugged to a AC usb charger.

This is one thing that skyrc did not have in mind. It would probably cost extra to add smart circuitry like QC, or AC mode. Other than that, the skyrc usb port is more than enough to charge a modern mobile device since it can deliver 2.1A. Just doesn't have the smarts to initiate the fast charge protocol that your mobile device is waiting for like "Hey i am capable delivering more than 500mA of current."

It is a safety feature so your phone doesn't draw more than what the source can deliver.

 

[mactavish]

Just received the SkyRC MC3000 (came with FW 1.14, I updated to latest 1.15, HW V.2.2)


QUESTION: "To LUBE or not to LUBE"


I have browsed this thread but not read every post. I've read various opinions on the rough sliding "sliders" in the slots. With the beefy springs, it's not easy and rough feeling using mine.


I've read that the original units had grease on the slider rails, and they stopped using any some time ago, mine seems DRY. So in terms of adding any lubricant, my first thought is if the manufacturer no longer lubes them, and it's not cost related, then perhaps it's for more accurate readings for all functions. And the manufacturer most likely could have found an appropriate lube if they felt using a lube was best.


With that said, I'd still like to ask the owners here, their opinion. I'd agree the most effective way would be as some have done, filing/smoothing the metal slide-rail edges. I'm NOT going to do that, so it's either DRY (as delivered), or a lube/grease solution.


I'd like to use one of the products I already own, as they all seem applicable. They all claim to make better electrical conductivity, and lower electrical resistance.


Seems one of the main differences in these lubes, is if they conduct electricity or not, and I'm not sure if that is a positive or negative in this specific application?


Here are the choices I already own:


1) DEOXIT GOLD (non-conductive)
2) NYGOL 760G (Dielectric, non-conductive)
3) NOALOX (conductive)


If there is any consensus that a small amount of lube won't effect the accuracy of the chargers readings, then I would lean toward trying the DEOXIT GOLD, as it's so thin. Downside is the thicker grease of the NYOGEL would probably make the sliders move better, but we all know the more lube, the more dirt etc. can stick to it, that's the advantage of the DEOXIT GOLD, it goes on thin, drys a bit and supposedly leaves some lube on the surface, not sure if this will actually make the sliders move better, but it seems the lease intrusive of the three lubes I have.


Opinions please? Thanks!

ADDED: Good article assuming the authors expertise on "grease", from an antenna forum.

http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

ALSO: [h=1]Myth: Grease Interferes With Conductivity[/h]
https://www.nyelubricants.com/myth-grease-interferes-with-conductivity

 

[fmc1]

Just received the SkyRC MC3000 (came with FW 1.14, I updated to latest 1.15, HW V.2.2)


QUESTION: "To LUBE or not to LUBE"


I have browsed this thread but not read every post. I've read various opinions on the rough sliding "sliders" in the slots. With the beefy springs, it's not easy and rough feeling using mine.


I've read that the original units had grease on the slider rails, and they stopped using any some time ago, mine seems DRY. So in terms of adding any lubricant, my first thought is if the manufacturer no longer lubes them, and it's not cost related, then perhaps it's for more accurate readings for all functions. And the manufacturer most likely could have found an appropriate lube if they felt using a lube was best.


With that said, I'd still like to ask the owners here, their opinion. I'd agree the most effective way would be as some have done, filing/smoothing the metal slide-rail edges. I'm NOT going to do that, so it's either DRY (as delivered), or a lube/grease solution.


I'd like to use one of the products I already own, as they all seem applicable. They all claim to make better electrical conductivity, and lower electrical resistance.


Seems one of the main differences in these lubes, is if they conduct electricity or not, and I'm not sure if that is a positive or negative in this specific application?


Here are the choices I already own:


1) DEOXIT GOLD (non-conductive)
2) NYGOL 760G (Dielectric, non-conductive)
3) NOALOX (conductive)


If there is any consensus that a small amount of lube won't effect the accuracy of the chargers readings, then I would lean toward trying the DEOXIT GOLD, as it's so thin. Downside is the thicker grease of the NYOGEL would probably make the sliders move better, but we all know the more lube, the more dirt etc. can stick to it, that's the advantage of the DEOXIT GOLD, it goes on thin, drys a bit and supposedly leaves some lube on the surface, not sure if this will actually make the sliders move better, but it seems the lease intrusive of the three lubes I have.


Opinions please? Thanks!

ADDED: Good article assuming the authors expertise on "grease", from an antenna forum.

http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

ALSO: Myth: Grease Interferes With Conductivity


https://www.nyelubricants.com/myth-grease-interferes-with-conductivity

First off good luck with the charger. I think you made a very good choice. Let me try to answer your questions.

There is no way I would use anything conductive for lubrication. The PCB is below the sliders so anything conductive making contact with the PCB can easily cause a short and gravity will help make that happen. I have owned every hardware generation of these chargers as far as I know and don't remember seeing any kind of lubrication on the sliders since my very first one that I bought in early 2016.


I'm a big nyogel fan but I would not use it for this. I have put a little silicone spray on a few of mine that got a little sticky and it worked fine.

If you are worried about the calibration being affected after you lubricate it then you bought the right charger because you can recalibrate it if you have a good DMM.


If you want to take it over the top then my advice is to have a can of silicone spray handy and a battery with about 4V charge that has been renting at least 24 hours as well a DMM. Put the battery in all four slots one at a time checking the voltage then compare it to the DMM, now you have a benchmark. Then spray the silicone and work it in a little till the sliders are smooth. After that repeat the battery voltage test and see if anything changed. On the one in 100 chance the calibration changed enough to affect your application, just recalibrate it.


Frank

 

[mactavish]

First off good luck with the charger. I think you made a very good choice. Let me try to answer your questions.

There is no way I would use anything conductive for lubrication. The PCB is below the sliders so anything conductive making contact with the PCB can easily cause a short and gravity will help make that happen. I have owned every hardware generation of these chargers as far as I know and don't remember seeing any kind of lubrication on the sliders since my very first one that I bought in early 2016.


I'm a big nyogel fan but I would not use it for this. I have put a little silicone spray on a few of mine that got a little sticky and it worked fine.

If you are worried about the calibration being affected after you lubricate it then you bought the right charger because you can recalibrate it if you have a good DMM.


If you want to take it over the top then my advice is to have a can of silicone spray handy and a battery with about 4V charge that has been renting at least 24 hours as well a DMM. Put the battery in all four slots one at a time checking the voltage then compare it to the DMM, now you have a benchmark. Then spray the silicone and work it in a little till the sliders are smooth. After that repeat the battery voltage test and see if anything changed. On the one in 100 chance the calibration changed enough to affect your application, just recalibrate it.


Frank

Thanks Frank. Even though the MC3000 has been out for 5 years, I couldn't find any other product at this price that could do as much. It will easily replace my Powerex Maha MH-C9000 (nimh) and the Xtar XP2 (lithium's).

So so that's a strong vote for NO LUBE. I'm just concerned about bending the slider posts. If things get too sticky, I'll try silicone on a QTip, or the Deoxit applying lightly just on the rails. The only lube I own that claims it's conducive, is the Noalox, which is a messy grey paste, I listed it as I had read someone in this thread used it, and I'm sure it made the sliders glide better, but I'd rather do some research and use the more appropriate product, hence my original post.

I'm just getting into the manual, and am formulating some more questions on some things that confuse me, so I'll be back here soon. Thanks again for taking the time to respond, thought everyone may have moved on from this long thread.

 

[adamlau]

No lube here. I depress the slider all the way down before inserting a cell in the cradle. Slowly release the slider and the cell self-centers.

 

[mactavish]

No lube here. I depress the slider all the way down before inserting a cell in the cradle. Slowly release the slider and the cell self-centers.

Thanks, that's what I always do.

Here's a QUESTION:
After a refresh cycle C-D-C, you get two results for total mAh, one is after after the 1st discharge called "CAPACITY" on MC3000 screen , the 2nd is after the final charge, called "CHARGED", the two will scroll back and forth when you are looking at the final stats.

I'm pasting this quote:
"Discharge capacity is universally regarded as a more accurate test then charge capacity mainly because of the heat loss during a charge, heat is energy."

So for record keeping, it seems the 1st results after DISCHARGE called "CAPACITY" (on charger), is the more accurate, and the one to record in my notes.

BUT, so far what I've noticed the the MaH results are consistently 50mAh HIGHER, for the final charge called "CHARGED" (on charger).

If the pasted quote above is true, and charging "heat" effects the mAh readings, wouldn't my mAh results after the final charge be LOWER, and not higher?

Which is true?

 

[MaestroDaVinci]

Hello i recently (a week ago) a got mine and everything seems to be OK, however i decided to search a info regarding one of the best features this charger was the bluetooth connectivity which allows me to follow the battery charge and to change settings from the phone. However i guess i didn't expect it to be that hard. So my phone is Android 10 and the bluetooth works on it, but when its turned on it asks to connect to the charger which i normal, but it asks for a pin, which i can't seem to find. I tried the app and in there the app states that the bluetooth is not turned on even though it is. So can anyone help me?

Also one more thing, the analyzer thing how does it work and what program or option should i choose to analyze? Because i searched the menu options but there is no analyzer part.

Also is there anything special about the charger that i should know or read i know that this thread is about the charger but it is also 178 pages long. So thank you in advance.

 

[sbj]

...BUT, so far what I've noticed the the MaH results are consistently 50mAh HIGHER, for the final charge called "CHARGED" (on charger).

If the pasted quote above is true, and charging "heat" effects the mAh readings, wouldn't my mAh results after the final charge be LOWER, and not higher?

Which is true?

It is true that the discharge capacity represents the energy content of a battery more precisely than the charged capacity. But your conclusion about the charged capacity and the heat generated is wrong.

If no heat were generated during charging, the discharge and charge capacity would be the same (in simple terms). But because heat is generated, this proportion must be used additionally when charging. When charging, the charger not only shows the mAh that is stored in the battery, but also those that were lost due to heat.

 

[sbj]

..........Also one more thing, the analyzer thing how does it work and what program or option should i choose to analyze? Because i searched the menu options but there is no analyzer part.....

That depends on what you want to analyze on a battery. The most important parameters of a battery are probably the internal resistance and the usable capacity.

To measure the internal resistance, place a battery in the charging compartment, then press the negative connection against the battery, with the other hand turn the battery slightly to reduce any contact resistance and then press and hold the arrow button up and down at the same time to start the measurement.

To measure the capacity stored in a battery, insert a charged battery and use the discharge function to discharge it with 0.2C discharge current to the final discharge voltage specified by the manufacturer. For the sake of simplicity, you can also use the cycle program C ^ D ^ C for this.
These are the main characteristics of a battery that need to be analyzed.

 

[HKJ]

If no heat were generated during charging, the discharge and charge capacity would be the same (in simpe terms). But because heat is generated, this proportion must be used additionally when charging. When charging, the charger not only shows the mAh that is stored in the battery, but also those that were lost due to heat.

That is not correct, with LiIon charge and discharge capacity is basically the same, even if they are hot during a charge.
You have to distinguish between capacity (Ah) and energy (Wh), even if the capacity is the same, the energy is not (Charge voltage is higher than discharge voltage).

 

[sbj]

I already expected this objection from the experts. These context are also clear to me.

The point here is actually to explain to a beginner why NiMh chargers display a higher capacity when charging than when discharging. I wrote about it: (in simple terms).

 

[MaestroDaVinci]

That depends on what you want to analyze on a battery. The most important parameters of a battery are probably the internal resistance and the usable capacity.

To measure the internal resistance, place a battery in the charging compartment, then press the negative connection against the battery, with the other hand turn the battery slightly to reduce any contact resistance and then press and hold the arrow button up and down at the same time to start the measurement.

To measure the capacity stored in a battery, insert a charged battery and use the discharge function to discharge it with 0.2C discharge current to the final discharge voltage specified by the manufacturer. For the sake of simplicity, you can also use the cycle program C ^ D ^ C for this.
These are the main characteristics of a battery that need to be analyzed.

Thank you!!