So right now (end of 2017) are there any LED headlights that beat HID?

[KITROBASKIN]

... Aim, not headlamp tech, is the top factor in how far you can see; and vehicle/road dynamics mean even a perfectly aimed headlamp is pointed where the driver needs it/where it's assumed to be pointed less than 10% of the time. So we could measure the seeing distance provided by a bunch of cars' properly aimed headlamps on a static basis, but it wouldn't let us say "THERE, that car right there, that one gives the driver the longest seeing distance" because as soon as the car is shifted into Drive and taken out on actual roads...out the window goes that measurement.

The practical answer to the question is "ADB".

What does ADB mean?

Is there successful research going into mapping the terrain and moving objects so that a method could be created to aim the headlights appropriate for the real-time circumstances?

 

[-Virgil-]

Virgil, you have access to a lot of photometric testing, why don't you give us a run down between a few contenders for maximal beam distance in bith low and high beam, and maximal beam width, for low and high beam, and each lamps intensities at ow and high?

Mostly because I have to do work that pays bills! Also because the answer keeps changing. Basically every time Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW introduce a new LED headlamp, the benchmark moves (upward). HID performance from LED headlamps was a mile marker passed a long time ago, I think 2011 or so, and it was a car by one of those makers. That is not to say that those are the only car brands with best-headlamp contenders, nor to imply that any headlamp on one of those brands of car is automatically superior. Nor does it mean you have to spend BMW-Audi-MB money to get superior LED headlamps. Pretty much everyone (subjectively and objectively) raves about the LED low beams on the 2014+ Toyota Corolla, for example. I have had difficulty getting details on the objective differences between the earlier version that has LED for low beam only (HB3 halogen high beam) and the later version that has a high/low beam LED projector. It's clear to see that they're different enough not to be lumped together -- the only-lowbeam unit has a more or less straight cut-off line, while the dual-beam unit has a stepped or "Z-beam" type of cutoff, for example -- but it seems like most of the tests I've seen have just reused text and ratings from the earlier version and assumed they applied to the later version. :-(

It's been stated for years and years that Hella's 90mm bixenon is the top dog.

The Hella 90mm BiXenon might or might not have ever been the top dog in general -- probably not, given the packaging constraints required. So far it is the best standard-mount 90mm high/low beam lamp anyone has made, and as of at least a couple of years ago the 7" round lamp based on this 90mm BiXenon Hella projector was the best 7" lamp. But the LED lamps have been improving by leaps and bounds.

How does the halogen version stack up?

The BiHalogen version of the Hella 90mm lamp is decent. Not amazing or outstanding. The BiLED version of the Hella 90mm lamp is not very good.

I've also seen the promotion for Hellas 60mm halogen projectors. How do those compare

They can be given a kick in the pants by replacing the HB3 (9005) bulb they use, both the low beam and the high beam unit, with HIR1 (9011), but they are still inexpensive, basic low-tech, and relatively weak on performance.

 

[-Virgil-]

What does ADB mean?

Adaptive Driving Beam. See this article (among many others).

Is there successful research going into mapping the terrain and moving objects so that a method could be created to aim the headlights appropriate for the real-time circumstances?

That's more or less the basic idea. Maps-based headlamp adaptation is relatively old news; the current state of the art is dynamic beam shaping in real time.

 

[SubLGT]

...the current state of the art is dynamic beam shaping in real time.

I hope this also includes dynamic aiming in real time.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

...the current state of the art is dynamic beam shaping in real time.

I hope this also includes dynamic aiming in real time.

Seems like those should be part and parcel. Why shape an unaimed beam? Why aim an unshaped beam?

 

[Magio]

I'd be glad if we here in the US can atleast just get a law making auto leveling be required for all pickup trucks. I've literally had to pull over twice within the past 2 weeks when a 18 Ford truck with LED headlights was approaching me and the rear end was squatted down from the load. The intensity from those LEDs was so high I was completely blinded, much worse than any PNP setup, and the only safe option was to pull over. Not having auto leveling on a pickup truck is a serious safety hazard, worse than PNP HIDs, and is really something law makers should address very quickly.

 

[-Virgil-]

Don't hold your breath waiting for any regulations to be issued by any agency during the current administration, which has made clear it views regulations as things to be UNdone.

You might think an automaker would offer auto-level headlamps to make its pickup truck better than the other brand. But then you'd have to think about the lack of incentive for any of this. Many states have "left hand giveth, right hand taketh away" laws on the books. Take a look at this from Oregon, for example:

"Whenever the driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, the driver must use a distribution of light or composite beam so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver. The use of the low beams of the vehicle headlight system is in compliance with this paragraph at all times regardless of road contour and loading of the vehicle."

 

[phantom23]

When I measured LUX at 100 meters on a bunch of 7" round headlights (high beams), the Hella 90mm HID kicked every butt. Also won the LUX war at 50 meters on low beam.

That's because of the incredible light density - HIDs are very easy to focus to throw far (smaller light source=better focus). With LEDs you need multiple emitters to achieve similar brightness but it means much higher surface area. That's why properly designed HID reflector is still far superior to the LED one. Basically all cars with LEDs have very short beam range, especially on low beam (unless they were aimed too high creating excessive glare). The only advantage of LEDs as for now is the ability to make adjustable beam/matrix headlights which are still far from perfect (slow computers) and more importantly - illegal in the US.

 

[Magio]

Don't hold your breath waiting for any regulations to be issued by any agency during the current administration, which has made clear it views regulations as things to be UNdone.

Many regulation need to be undone and some need to be added. Mandatory autoleveling is one I think should be added. There are many people having an even harder time with blinding headlights than myself. Honestly though, headlights are probably the last thing on lawmakers mind nowadays.

the driver must use a distribution of light or composite beam so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver. The use of the low beams of the vehicle headlight system is in compliance with this paragraph at all times regardless of road contour and loading of the vehicle.

Well thats an oxymoron if I've ever seen one, and goes to show exactly why auto-leveling should be required. I don't know how old that law is, but I can understand if that laws was written before autoleveling was invented that there may not have been a good solution to the problem. Now that we have the solution that law should be updated.

That's because of the incredible light density - HIDs are very easy to focus to throw far (smaller light source=better focus). With LEDs you need multiple emitters to achieve similar brightness but it means much higher surface area.

I think you mixed up brightness and intensity right there. If you were talking about searchlights designed to reach out incredibly long distances I would say you are mostly correct in the fact that HID's do still have a small advantage over LED ATM( thats shrinking fast as is proven with the BLF GT LED searchlight), but at the relatively short range headlights reach out to especially on low beam, LEDs are far more than capable of reaching out just as far as HIDs.

Besides this, the law limits how intense headlights can be on both high beam and low beam. So it doesn't matter if you are using freaking lasers that are far more intense than HID or LED. If all three types of headlamps are reaching the limit set by the law, the lasers will have absolutely no advantage over the HID or LED's in how far it can throw as all three are equally intense.

Basically all cars with LEDs have very short beam range, especially on low beam (unless they were aimed too high creating excessive glare).

Have you actually driven any cars with LED headlights? Have you actually looked at the IIHS test where they very clearly showed that many cars come with single bulb LED projectors and produce a beam that throws just as far and wide as an HID projector and has minimal glare? Just a tiny bit of research will show you that you are completely wrong about LED not being able to throw as far as HIDs.

The only advantage of LEDs as for now is the ability to make adjustable beam/matrix headlights which are still far from perfect (slow computers) and more importantly - illegal in the US.

That is way too absolute of a statement. What about power consumption? What about weight savings? What about drastically reduced heat in the headlamp? What about bulb life? There are many aspects of LED headlamps that are far superior to HID or halogen headlamps that you completely missed.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

That's because of the incredible light density - HIDs are very easy to focus to throw far (smaller light source=better focus). With LEDs you need multiple emitters to achieve similar brightness but it means much higher surface area. That's why properly designed HID reflector is still far superior to the LED one.

Arc-discharge capsules aren't all that easy to focus-- the light source is slightly crescent-shaped, the curve changes with the roll and pitch of the car (the top of the arc stays relative to the ground, not to the top of the lamp) and it has a hotspot at each of the extreme ends. An LED emitter, on the other hand, doesn't change shape-- meaning the beam shape itself stays consistent. And LEDs are being made with luminances in Mcd/m2​ that outstrip those of even the arc's hotspots.

Basically all cars with LEDs have very short beam range, especially on low beam (unless they were aimed too high creating excessive glare). The only advantage of LEDs as for now is the ability to make adjustable beam/matrix headlights which are still far from perfect (slow computers) and more importantly - illegal in the US.

Now, it may be true that all brontosauruses are thin at one end, much MUCH thicker in the middle, and then thin again at the far end, it's not true that all cars with LEDs have a very short low beam range.

And slow computers? This isn't 1975 and they're not using a 6502.

 

[-Virgil-]

That's because of the incredible light density - HIDs are very easy to focus to throw far (smaller light source=better focus).

Most automotive HID light source arcs are larger than most automotive filaments, and all automotive HID light source arcs are much bigger than automotive LED light sources. This looks like you might have assumed car headlamps are just like flashlights. They aren't.

With LEDs you need multiple emitters to achieve similar brightness but it means much higher surface area. That's why properly designed HID reflector is still far superior to the LED one. Basically all cars with LEDs have very short beam range

Zero percent of this is correct.

The only advantage of LEDs as for now is the ability to make adjustable beam/matrix headlights

Also zero percent.

which are still far from perfect (slow computers)

LOL! Slow computers, right.

Seriously...stop. There are enough experts on this forum that when you make stuff up like this, when you pull baseless claims and bogus statements out of the dark and post them like they're facts, the only possible end result is that you're going to get called out on it, and then you won't look very informed or authoritative...kind of the opposite of what you were probably trying to achieve. It's best for everyone (including you) if you please refrain from this kind of juvenile behavior on here.

 

[JasonOk]

Well this turned into a good popcorn read (with some good info if you pick through it). I had to laugh at the slow computers though, as they use computer's/modules to adjust the suspension to road dynamics in real time. Surely the adaptive headlight system's are just as responsive. My cx-5 is close to instantaneous on its turning biased headlights. Turn the wheel the light on that side turns with it.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Surely the adaptive headlight system's are just as responsive. My cx-5 is close to instantaneous on its turning biased headlights. Turn the wheel the light on that side turns with it.

Turning the headlamp with the wheel isn't quite as computationally expensive as scanning the road ahead, determining a field where drivers' eyes will be, and then shutting off or attenuating that part of the beam that would reach those eyes (and moving that shading appropriately) while still keeping the rest of the load lit as if by the full high beam. That's pretty complicated, but even so, it's a relative breeze compared with trying to do that with the "automotive-durable" computing systems 15-20 years ago.

 

[twin1987]

Very interesting and informative thread. I have literally been googling this very topic the last few weeks, and not gotten a lot of good info.

I have been visiting this site for about a year now off and on just expanding my knowledge and have learned a lot!

I did not realize that some of the factory led systems had actually surpassed the HID ones. I say some as I have gathered from this site that the factory Ford led system on the f150 was not actually very good, is that correct?

I see that the 2016+ Silverado comes with factory hid (25w?) or factory led on the upper models. Which is better? Are the led ones better on the Silverado being the HID I think is only 25w?

Also the wife has been interested in the newer Cadillac CT6. The CT6 comes with led. How does this compare to say the CTS hid, or even her current 2013 buick lacrosse factory hid? I have a 2007 Corvette and have allways thought the hid (low beam only) was better than her low beam. Is this possibly because the vette projector bowl is set up for only low where as the buick (or other bi-xenon) systems is set up for both?

Love this site!