jon_slider
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2015
- Messages
- 5,388
true..too much nonsense
trust but verify. lol
that is why I find the zeroair runtime charts such a great reality check ;-)
true..too much nonsense
I get it.No, you don't understand. One of the annoying industry practices out there (aside from most brands reporting over-inflated emitter lumens numbers, as opposed to realistic Out The front numbers which are always considerably less than emitter numbers) is the practice of over inflating runtimes. Highest setting on a flashlight, you are not getting continuous output on that setting for the whole 1.5 or 2 hours, or 3 hours. No. Unless that "high" setting is a very low number. You might get continuous output for hours if your light is producing 30 lumens or so on its high setting. But 500 or 1,000 lumens for anything remotely close to an hour? No! LED technology is not to that point.... yet.
Those over-inflated runtimes mean that the light starts off at a very high setting. Lasts for a few minutes, then during that 1.5 or 2 hours; you'll see the light drop significantly in output. Oh! But since the output you're now getting is still useable for most lighting tasks, the various brands count that decreased output as if the light is still going just as strong as it was from the very start! Yeah, that B.S. continues after more drops in output. And only ends when the output is so pathetic that not even the various brands themselves can pretend you're getting a useful amount of light out of your flashlight.
They don't stop counting runtime the very first time output drops off a cliff when your light is in Turbo or High mode. Even though they should.
I've seen the runtime graphs, but they don't answer my basic question:No, you don't understand. One of the annoying industry practices out there (aside from most brands reporting over-inflated emitter lumens numbers, as opposed to realistic Out The front numbers which are always considerably less than emitter numbers) is the practice of over inflating runtimes. Highest setting on a flashlight, you are not getting continuous output on that setting for the whole 1.5 or 2 hours, or 3 hours. No. Unless that "high" setting is a very low number. You might get continuous output for hours if your light is producing 30 lumens or so on its high setting. But 500 or 1,000 lumens for anything remotely close to an hour? No! LED technology is not to that point.... yet.
Those over-inflated runtimes mean that the light starts off at a very high setting. Lasts for a few minutes, then during that 1.5 or 2 hours; you'll see the light drop significantly in output. Oh! But since the output you're now getting is still useable for most lighting tasks, the various brands count that decreased output as if the light is still going just as strong as it was from the very start! Yeah, that B.S. continues after more drops in output. And only ends when the output is so pathetic that not even the various brands themselves can pretend you're getting a useful amount of light out of your flashlight.
They don't stop counting runtime the very first time output drops off a cliff when your light is in Turbo or High mode. Even though they should.
Not every time. If you use a light with a fully charged up battery on its highest setting for only a few seconds, then immediately switch it off and wait; Yes, you will get maximum output the next time you switch it on. But, if the battery isn't fully charged and it kicks the output level down after you've used it. One of two things will happen after you switch the light off, and then on again in its highest setting. Either it will turn on, in that setting but will immediately kick down to a lower setting. Or, it will not switch on at all on the highest setting. It'll switch on in a lower setting until the battery is recharged.Does the same discharge curve apply every time you use the light, or does the max output decrease after first use, so you effectively start from a lower output?
Honestly that variable depends on the specific flashlight model, and what its highest setting happens to be. Some lights will hold that highest setting as long as possible, but then output will noticeable drop off significantly. (As if the output wasn't watching where it was going and fell off a giant cliff.) That's what you can expect on most modern-day LED lights. The alternative is a flashlight that will start off on the highest setting with fresh batteries. But the longer you use it, it will start to almost immediately very gradually dim over the time you're using it. So much so that at first it won't be immediately noticeable. That gradual dimming will continue until your light is barely producing any output at all. But, there's no drop off from a cliff. Picture a very gradual slope heading down.At what point in the diminishing power reserve of the battery does this affect the initial output (of course I'm thinking of the highest setting with this question)? 80%? 50%? Or right after first use?
Yes. Single operation. Start to finish. Multiple operations aren't used.I'd assume that the final curve after a number of uses would of course drop off in ultimate duration, since I assume the graphed figures are based on a single operation of the light, and measured until failure. Is this correct?
Temperature extremes can definitely have an effect on how flashlights will perform outdoors.What other parameters might be affected as one cycles the light over a period of time?
Thanks for your insights.
I've seen the runtime graphs, but they don't answer my basic question:
Does the same discharge curve apply every time you use the light, or does the max output decrease after first use, so you effectively start from a lower output?
At what point in the diminishing power reserve of the battery does this affect the initial output (of course I'm thinking of the highest setting with this question)? 80%? 50%? Or right after first use?
I'd assume that the final curve after a number of uses would of course drop off in ultimate duration, since I assume the graphed figures are based on a single operation of the light, and measured until failure. Is this correct? What other parameters might be affected as one cycles the light over a period of time?
Thanks for your insights.
Honestly that variable depends on the specific flashlight model, and what its highest setting happens to be. Some lights will hold that highest setting as long as possible, but then output will noticeable drop off significantly. (As if the output wasn't watching where it was going and fell off a giant cliff.) That's what you can expect on most modern-day LED lights.
The alternative is a flashlight that will start off on the highest setting with fresh batteries. But the longer you use it, it will start to almost immediately very gradually dim over the time you're using it. So much so that at first it won't be immediately noticeable. That gradual dimming will continue until your light is barely producing any output at all. But, there's no drop off from a cliff. Picture a very gradual slope heading down.
Does the same discharge curve apply every time you use the light, or does the max output decrease after first use, so you effectively start from a lower output?
This occurs at a relatively low SOC (I'm thinking way under 50% - probably more like 20-30%), but it's hard to put a meaningful average number on that. Too many variables to generalize (although not that difficult to measure / document for a specific light using fairly basic equipment). EDIT: I may be underestimating this number, and it could be 50% (SOC) or more. Others with more experience w/ flashlight drivers could provide a better general number to use than I can. In lieu of better data, I think I'll assume 50% as a working assumption.At what point in the diminishing power reserve of the battery does this affect the initial output (of course I'm thinking of the highest setting with this question)? 80%? 50%? Or right after first use?
That's correct. Output / time is typically graphed for a single, sustained operation. I'm not aware of impact to other parameters besides output power (lumens) and run time (lumen-hours, if you will), but clearly as output decreases, so does 'intensity' (CD), so there's that.I'd assume that the final curve after a number of uses would of course drop off in ultimate duration, since I assume the graphed figures are based on a single operation of the light, and measured until failure. Is this correct? What other parameters might be affected as one cycles the light over a period of time?
^^^^^This occurs at a relatively low SOC (I'm thinking way under 50% - probably more like 20-30%), but it's hard to put a meaningful average number on that. Too many variables to generalize (although not that difficult to measure / document for a specific light using fairly basic equipment). EDIT: I may be underestimating this number, and it could be 50% (SOC) or more. Others with more experience w/ flashlight drivers could provide a better general number to use than I can. In lieu of better data, I think I'll assume 50% as a working assumption.
Yeah according to Surefire the battery indicator programming is an issue. I'm hoping to get mine back this week and to just use it and see how it goes.Received mine, recently, and so far, the runtime has been horrible. But reading this thread, it's probably normal, though constant on--going from green to orange to red in a few minutes of each other is a bit perplexing, and if the battery isnt dumping voltage, then the battery indicator programming is really inaccurate. Surefire has really been circling the drain, but lights seem to no longer be their main priority.
More people need to read this thread.Must be selling well…. Already out of stock at B&H.
Oh they are, the service department sent me an email said they were trying to find me a replacement because they were back ordered which pissed me off because I specifically asked if they could just send me a replacement first, they said no but they would once they had mine, that still didn't happen so now the delay. oh well. I bought mine from Midway USA and checked back with them and they were out of stock so I'm sure they sold out quick.Must be selling well…. Already out of stock at B&H.
Yeah I hear that. I figured the original and pro were well liked so I figured this wouldn't be much different. I'm looking forward to getting it back and just using it and seeing how it does for an edc.It's new, it's SureFire, it was heavily promoted at SHOT show.... Sadly it seems you were one of numerous unpaid Beta-testers for this model.
What serial number is your light?More people need to read this thread.
Would be interesting to see if both of you got lights from the same batch. If perhaps the whole batch is suspect or just umc with his one light.Why?
What serial number is your light?
A00967Would be interesting to see if both of you got lights from the same batch. If perhaps the whole batch is suspect or just umc with his one light.