While my Surefires (current and the many I've sold off) felt beefier and heftier due to weight, that wasn't what made them feel higher quality. It's mostly the minor details such as the smoothness of the threading action, feel of the switch (though not all...E-series clickies never felt that reliable to me, and they do have issues), etc. that make them feel higher quality. Many of the details in a SF we can't see (conformal coated boards, etc.), but we pay the cost for. In any environment but military, conformal coating really isn't necessary, so that's unneeded cost for us. And there are issues with SFs too (unstraight clips, weak clips, clickies, etc.). I don't think the quality differences that we as owners can "feel" and sense between the currently available lights from ET, Olight, 47s, Jet, Deree, etc. is that far off from Surefire and the higher end price range elk. We like to tell ourselves they are (or magnify those minor details) as everyone subconsciously needs/wants to justify the costlier equipment, but it's at the point of diminishing returns where the improvement/differences are small and minor. I've had plenty Surefires, handled Pentagonlights, owned Pelicans and Streamlights and don't feel the other brands are that far off...at least in the feel and sense departments (not talking about circuit design, components used, soldering/mfg quality, etc....things we don't feel/sense). And none of the products we will see on CPF will ever stand close to Class 3 JSTD requirements.
t20c2 disappointed
- Thread starter cambel
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Thanks guys. I personally hold the pentagon light, atleast the one that I own, to a higher standard than surefire. Granted their is not much soldering in it being that is a one mode xenon, but I do believe that it is up to the class three standard and keeping in mind that I only paid $45 brand new for it, I was dissapointed when I first opened my new light. Seeing as how now there is alot more to a light than just a case, a bulb and a switch, the higher price for general use lights is a bit more justified than when I first bought my pentagon. I have no view on the pentagon led versions cause I have never seen one. Is there anything out there nowadays that is better than surefires, or did they sue off all their competition?
Oh and I disagree on one thing, CC'ing the boards of any well made light would benifit them all for the long term. Any electronics that will be used within a moist environment would benifit. I CC'd the board in my radar detector that I use on my motorcycle for that reason. Vibe and moisture are electronics enemy and for such a simple step to add in building a product the longevity would definately show, even for the average joe's usage.
Back on track: I just hooked up my tape switch to the eagletac. The constant on button on the side is a great feature and tapping the tapeswitch once before pressing it to access the strobe feature is just perfect. So many options to have in an affordable light. I am liking this thing more and more everyday. I am in the middle of making a fiberoptic tip for my pn20 for bore inspections when cleaning my toys. These eagle tacs are pretty fun.
I have had my T20C2 in duty use now for about 3 months. I must say the electronics and led are phenomenal in their like new condition. I have, however, dropped it a few times already and must agree, the body is not as durable as I had hoped. I think because it's made of aluminum, it is presumed to be tough. However, there appears to be a misconception all alloys are equal. There are definitely better aluminums out there. My threads are already wearing (no problems yet, but I have noticed) my bezel (claimed stainless, also a different quality) is gouged up bad, and the switch boot already shows signs of cracking (I have had problems with other Chinese rubber too in hoses, gaskets, and other automotive applications). All this, only after three months...
While I am not a Surefire fan, I must admit they "feel" durable, and we mustn't underestimate our own senses. For example, everyone here has owned or known someone who has bored a SF to fit 18650s. Even when this material is removed, it still feels tough. Try removing that much material off the Eagletacs. I bet you could bend the tube with your hands after that...
Now, I'm also not bashing this light either. I'm just pointing out it really wasn't the best choice for my requirements and expectations in rugged, professional use. It will remain in my personal collection for the home/camping/etc, as is my P2A (which is a great "the lights just went out" light). These lights are great for light recreational use, but industrial, they are not.
My $.02 for what it's worth.
While I am not a Surefire fan, I must admit they "feel" durable, and we mustn't underestimate our own senses. For example, everyone here has owned or known someone who has bored a SF to fit 18650s. Even when this material is removed, it still feels tough. Try removing that much material off the Eagletacs. I bet you could bend the tube with your hands after that...
Now, I'm also not bashing this light either. I'm just pointing out it really wasn't the best choice for my requirements and expectations in rugged, professional use. It will remain in my personal collection for the home/camping/etc, as is my P2A (which is a great "the lights just went out" light). These lights are great for light recreational use, but industrial, they are not.
My $.02 for what it's worth.
shipwreck
Enlightened
Be aware that the T20C2 Mk II CAN fit 18650s already - once needn't remove anymore material to make that fit.
richpalm
Banned
That was funny
He does bring up a point though that a flashight designed for cr123's and has an outer diameter of 1" will always feel stronger than a flashlight designed for 18650's and have a outer diameter of 1". But I do understand your point and I cant say I disagree. I still love my light but I think its going to get a class upgrade this weekend. Planning on reflowing, redesigning and fixing the flaws. That being said I could not have bought a better light nowadays for even double what I paid. I'm planning on bringing it up to class 3 spec, or close to it. I also have my fiber optic tip for my pn20 all done up. I built it in white for now cause I didnt have access to any black parts yet. lovin this stuff.
recDNA
Flashaholic
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- Jun 2, 2009
- Messages
- 8,761
recDNA
Flashaholic
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2009
- Messages
- 8,761
I'm curious why you say this?
Yeah I bought a pn20a2 and its great. The previously stated diffuser falling off is annoying but I'm workin on that. The little triple A light is awsome. Bright as hell and it throws really far for what it is. I can light up my whole back yard and the trees all the way to the tops not problem. I have been using it at work and it fits great in the front pocket of my lab coat. People just think its a pen. I really do like these Eagle tacs.
As far as the surefire thing, I think I have started enough trouble. I will never buy a surefire and I wish them bankrupcy.
Policetacteam
Enlightened
I think its safe to say everyone's expectations are different. We have beat the crap out of the T20C2 MKII and they are very tough lights. As for a dedicated weapon light they are amazing! If you can't notice an obvious difference between your Pelican and the T20C2 MKII something isn't working correctly. The EagleTac should be considerably brighter. I'm on duty right now and my T10LC2 has been dropped, shot by another officer during training, and ran over by another cruiser. Its scratched, the anodization is worn off on some edges but its almost two years old and still works like new! It's hard to argue with hard, real world use! There are probably more guys on my department and neighboring departments using EagleTac's then any other light.
Yes, over inflated expectations are exactly what happen here, I did state that earlier. I build military equipment for a living. Once you learn the high degree of manufacturing that has to go into it, everything else becomes crap. I can take apart a top of the line tv, or guitar amp, or anything that is commercial grade and I will be bitching and moaning about the quality of the solder joints and such. The standard for most people is if it works the way its supposed to, then its top notch. Not true for me, I dig deeper and know what to look for. I have learned though that sometimes I need to keep my mouth shut. If your light truely got that much abuse at work and mine is made to the same degree, then I will be a very happy boy Oh and just to clarify, I dont own a pelican, its a pentagon light.
Oh and just to clarify, I dont own a pelican, its a pentagon light.I just got my xre r2 dropin and I gotta say, this thing rocks. The throw is awsome. It is really great to be able to have so many different choices for one light. Depending on my need I can set up my eagle tac the way I want on the fly and then switch it back whenever I want. The xpg is good throw with great flood and the xre is a throw monster
Surefire uses 7075T6 aluminum while Eagletac uses 6061T6. 7075 is quite a bit harder and more wear resistant, so this may be noticed over time in constant load/wear areas such as the threads. The rest of the structure will be fine with either aluminum.
Surefire uses 6020. Seem to be the only one.
Most of the others use 6061, and Tiablo and Nitecore (and ..?) use 7075.
IIRC 7075 is harder but more brittle... however way that might translate to in use
Here's a thread on grades of aluminum.
Most of the others use 6061, and Tiablo and Nitecore (and ..?) use 7075.
IIRC 7075 is harder but more brittle... however way that might translate to in use
Here's a thread on grades of aluminum.
Hmm, I always thought SF used 7075. Perhaps I'm thinking about their mounts, which are 7075T6.
As for brittleness, anything that's harder is more brittle, but that's not a concern in lights. For lights (and for most other applications, as 7075T6 will take a lot of load before shattering...it will plastically deform first), 7075 is better in every way to 6061. The only "con" to 7075 over 6061 is that it's not weldable whereas 6061 is.
As for brittleness, anything that's harder is more brittle, but that's not a concern in lights. For lights (and for most other applications, as 7075T6 will take a lot of load before shattering...it will plastically deform first), 7075 is better in every way to 6061. The only "con" to 7075 over 6061 is that it's not weldable whereas 6061 is.
I think this also addresses another issue which is the ano coating. HAIII is useless if the metal underneath is soft. My lights with HAIII seem to chip and scratch easier than some of my others with type II (stock type II Mags are good examples). My HAIII mag is bullet compared to any of my others. They work together.
