Thinking of designing a new flashlight :)

D2000

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Apr 29, 2013
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Sydney Australia
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

Nice! You are in sydney too!I use solidworks too, not that good at it. But ill play around and see how it goes. Might get some help when i actually start something. Thanks
Yeah based in the Hills Shire :) That fine - ill be happy to give pointers and any advice if you need it. SW can be incredibly frustrating when still learning the ropes, but it's a great tool to master.
 

Trevtrain

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Melbourne, Australia
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

Hi Bruno28

I think others have given you fair warning of the difficulties of "design by committee". But it sounds like a great project and I've often wished I had the time, tools and skills to do something similar.

You will never make something to satisfy everyone as some want low-powered EDC (AAA) lights and some want Li-Ion for the power. Some will want throw, others flood. High CRI is essential as is maximum output coupled with extremely long runtimes. And of course 3 "moonlight" modes between 0.01 and 1 lumens is imperative. It must light up that threatening shape at 200 yards and also have a pocket clip so I can keep it unobrusively tucked in my jeans.
You can see what I'm getting at. :)

If you only plan to make the light(s) yourself and sell via CPF then it seems you can make pretty much anything. As long as it is functional and percieved to be of high quality, someone will buy it. If it is "pretty" or made in limited numbers (preferably from titanium) then you can command a very nice price. Add 50% if you track the serial numbers for every light you sell. There are some really nice lights in the custom threads as examples.

If you want to look at something more mass-market with a view to having it produced commercially, then you need to look at what features will make it appealing to the everday user. Spend countless hours coming up with a great product, prototype it, have it reviewed and approved and be lauded for your efforts. Then contract a Chinese company to produce it and watch clones of your light dropped onto DX or KD before your first batch even hits the shelves.

Wow, I think I've just unloaded most of my cynicism..... now to more constructive things.

My 2c - A modular approach would be ideal.

Dimensionally, it would be great if you could design a host (head, tube, tailcap) capable of taking several different battery types. 18650s are essential for CPF buyers and AA is where it's at for the general public. There are a few lights which can accomodate 3AAA or one 18650 but 3*AA/1*18650/1*26650 is probably more flexible. (Spark SX5 for example although that is a headlamp).
The reception of the 4AA lights like the Nitecore EA4 and Sunwayman D40 prove that there is definitely a market for a high-powered AA light and quite a few users in here who still fondly appreciate their eneloops.

A P60 drop-in may not be where you want to compete but the idea of selectable emitters is sound. It should be possible to source two or three reflectors (of the same size) to suit a range of emitters. Nichia 219, XP-G2, XP-E2 and XM-L2 are where it's at presently. (Perhaps leave the triples and quads to those specialising in making very nice modules already.)

Many makers currently offer protruding clickies or flush tailcaps for tailstanding so it shouldn't be difficult to offer this as well.

Drivers? Unless you can be sure of offering a 4*AA rather then 3*AA body, then a buck/boost driver is probably essential or your maximum output will fall rapidly on the NiMH cells. Unfortunately, this would add to the cost. Most people would probably expect to be able to run 2*RCR in an 18650 light so a driver rated for up to nearly 9V or so would be smart.
The trouble here is making mode selections that suit the majority of people. Too few or the wrong choices (that insane H-L-S found in the cheapies for instance) will turn many people off. Custom builders like Vinh/Nailbender can offer your choice of modes at the time of order, so perhaps you could as well.
The idea of making the light programable (Armytek, HDS, etc) sounds nice but I suspect it would only appeal to a small section of the market. I'd love it, but many would find it overly complex.
Potted electronics is a nice quality touch and thermal step-down is sensible if you are offering high-output options.

Keep in mind whether you are producing a light for sale "as is" or whether you are considering that some of your customers may want to do mods. Some modders don't like loctite, potting and thermal glues. Personally, I think if you can offer sensible options at order time there should be no need to plan for modding.

If you decide to start with the single AAA light, then keep in mind some of the suggestions above. At the bare minimum, a choice of emitters to bias towards flood or throw with options of high CRI or neutral tint would be well-recieved.

Options - people want options. Make several features selectable and your customers will feel they can get exactly what they need instead of something that is "almost right."

If you'ver read this wall of text all the way through, congratulations and good luck with your project. :)

Subscribed!
 

firemedic

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Joined
Jun 8, 2013
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59
Location
Birmingham Al.
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

Great idea! Make pieces. So all wants are met and you put together the light style you want. Everyone loves options!
Battery type "tube"
emitters/reflector
Driver/switch
accessories "angle head adapter, clips, color, tailcaps, ect..."
 

weekend warrior

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Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
98
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

How about a flashlight set that came with 1 quality side switch head with several output modes, and an assortment of body tubes that could fit anything from 1xAAA to 2XAA along with lithium primaries and rechargeable Li-ion.
 

Bruno28

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Mar 19, 2010
Messages
508
Location
Australia
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

Hi Bruno28

I think others have given you fair warning of the difficulties of "design by committee". But it sounds like a great project and I've often wished I had the time, tools and skills to do something similar.

You will never make something to satisfy everyone as some want low-powered EDC (AAA) lights and some want Li-Ion for the power. Some will want throw, others flood. High CRI is essential as is maximum output coupled with extremely long runtimes. And of course 3 "moonlight" modes between 0.01 and 1 lumens is imperative. It must light up that threatening shape at 200 yards and also have a pocket clip so I can keep it unobrusively tucked in my jeans.
You can see what I'm getting at. :)

If you only plan to make the light(s) yourself and sell via CPF then it seems you can make pretty much anything. As long as it is functional and percieved to be of high quality, someone will buy it. If it is "pretty" or made in limited numbers (preferably from titanium) then you can command a very nice price. Add 50% if you track the serial numbers for every light you sell. There are some really nice lights in the custom threads as examples.

If you want to look at something more mass-market with a view to having it produced commercially, then you need to look at what features will make it appealing to the everday user. Spend countless hours coming up with a great product, prototype it, have it reviewed and approved and be lauded for your efforts. Then contract a Chinese company to produce it and watch clones of your light dropped onto DX or KD before your first batch even hits the shelves.

Wow, I think I've just unloaded most of my cynicism..... now to more constructive things.

My 2c - A modular approach would be ideal.

Dimensionally, it would be great if you could design a host (head, tube, tailcap) capable of taking several different battery types. 18650s are essential for CPF buyers and AA is where it's at for the general public. There are a few lights which can accomodate 3AAA or one 18650 but 3*AA/1*18650/1*26650 is probably more flexible. (Spark SX5 for example although that is a headlamp).
The reception of the 4AA lights like the Nitecore EA4 and Sunwayman D40 prove that there is definitely a market for a high-powered AA light and quite a few users in here who still fondly appreciate their eneloops.

A P60 drop-in may not be where you want to compete but the idea of selectable emitters is sound. It should be possible to source two or three reflectors (of the same size) to suit a range of emitters. Nichia 219, XP-G2, XP-E2 and XM-L2 are where it's at presently. (Perhaps leave the triples and quads to those specialising in making very nice modules already.)

Many makers currently offer protruding clickies or flush tailcaps for tailstanding so it shouldn't be difficult to offer this as well.

Drivers? Unless you can be sure of offering a 4*AA rather then 3*AA body, then a buck/boost driver is probably essential or your maximum output will fall rapidly on the NiMH cells. Unfortunately, this would add to the cost. Most people would probably expect to be able to run 2*RCR in an 18650 light so a driver rated for up to nearly 9V or so would be smart.
The trouble here is making mode selections that suit the majority of people. Too few or the wrong choices (that insane H-L-S found in the cheapies for instance) will turn many people off. Custom builders like Vinh/Nailbender can offer your choice of modes at the time of order, so perhaps you could as well.
The idea of making the light programable (Armytek, HDS, etc) sounds nice but I suspect it would only appeal to a small section of the market. I'd love it, but many would find it overly complex.
Potted electronics is a nice quality touch and thermal step-down is sensible if you are offering high-output options.

Keep in mind whether you are producing a light for sale "as is" or whether you are considering that some of your customers may want to do mods. Some modders don't like loctite, potting and thermal glues. Personally, I think if you can offer sensible options at order time there should be no need to plan for modding.

If you decide to start with the single AAA light, then keep in mind some of the suggestions above. At the bare minimum, a choice of emitters to bias towards flood or throw with options of high CRI or neutral tint would be well-recieved.

Options - people want options. Make several features selectable and your customers will feel they can get exactly what they need instead of something that is "almost right."

If you'ver read this wall of text all the way through, congratulations and good luck with your project. :)

Subscribed!

Thanks TrevTrain!!!
there are some amazing tips you have shared! Ive read it all! And thanks for your time to write all that up!
It sure is complicated to design something that will make everyone happy. There just are so many options!!!
 

Bruno28

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Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
508
Location
Australia
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

Great idea! Make pieces. So all wants are met and you put together the light style you want. Everyone loves options!
Battery type "tube"
emitters/reflector
Driver/switch
accessories "angle head adapter, clips, color, tailcaps, ect..."

How about a flashlight set that came with 1 quality side switch head with several output modes, and an assortment of body tubes that could fit anything from 1xAAA to 2XAA along with lithium primaries and rechargeable Li-ion.

But that means it would be a Kit, and so people wound not want to pay for all, when they just one one type of combination. Or am i wrong?
 

Trevtrain

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Location
Melbourne, Australia
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

But that means it would be a Kit, and so people wound not want to pay for all, when they just one one type of combination. Or am i wrong?

Hi Bruno

I think some would want to buy the entire kit for maximum flexibility and some would want to order just the parts or light that suits their purpose.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that all of your customers would want the entire kit.

If you decide to go this way (modular) then I imagine you would need to plan on selling both complete lights and accessory/optional parts. Unfortunately, that will probably mean keeping stock of some slow-moving parts.

Weekend warrior's comment about 1 quality side-switch head is good but will probably not work. Good drivers fully supporting 0.9V to 4.2V (1AAA to 1 Li-Ion) are rare. Many simply go direct drive on higher voltages (>Vf) and can burn out or short-term the LED. I think the low-voltage heads in the foursevens lights have a buck-boost driver but off-the-shelf buck-boost drivers are hard to find.

For multiple Li-Ion (2*14500 or 2*16340) many of the available drivers do not produce full output on one cell. (Armytek S-Tek drivers for instance are an exception. There may be others.)

At the very least you may have to offer a low-voltage and a high-voltage head if you went this way. Or spend some time and money developing a good driver.

Best of luck!
 

Bruno28

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Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
508
Location
Australia
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

Hi Bruno

I think some would want to buy the entire kit for maximum flexibility and some would want to order just the parts or light that suits their purpose.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that all of your customers would want the entire kit.

If you decide to go this way (modular) then I imagine you would need to plan on selling both complete lights and accessory/optional parts. Unfortunately, that will probably mean keeping stock of some slow-moving parts.

Weekend warrior's comment about 1 quality side-switch head is good but will probably not work. Good drivers fully supporting 0.9V to 4.2V (1AAA to 1 Li-Ion) are rare. Many simply go direct drive on higher voltages (>Vf) and can burn out or short-term the LED. I think the low-voltage heads in the foursevens lights have a buck-boost driver but off-the-shelf buck-boost drivers are hard to find.

For multiple Li-Ion (2*14500 or 2*16340) many of the available drivers do not produce full output on one cell. (Armytek S-Tek drivers for instance are an exception. There may be others.)

At the very least you may have to offer a low-voltage and a high-voltage head if you went this way. Or spend some time and money developing a good driver.

Best of luck!

The most difficult part will be the electronics and the reflector. I will need to research a fair bit.
 

ahorton

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Jul 22, 2008
Messages
715
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

If you're still interested in advice, then here's mine:

Build something you want for yourself.

If others want it, then they'll let you know and you can start selling.

Most people who start businesses hoping for a profit end up disappointed, especially in this industry.
 

mesa232323

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Nov 5, 2008
Messages
340
Location
bakersfield, ca
Single emitter XP-E2 large reflector thrower.

I was recently looking for this configuration and haven't been successful. Nearly all manufacturers are shoving XML and XPG emmiters into their lights trying to create large numbers on paper. It makes for a tough market to compete in. I see a lot of these types in the marketplace. They all seem like the same light, different manufacture.

There are a lot of floody beam lights. The lights that create laser type beams always sell fast. But no one does it with the most practical emmiter...The XP-E2

You'd have at least one guaranteed customer :)
 

Ken_McE

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Messages
1,688
I would like if possible to hear everyones suggestion to the perfect light you would like to have.

There is no such thing as an all around perfect light. There are lights that are prefect for a particular person or purpose.

Things I value would include:

* Robustness.

* Reliability

* Run time.

* simplicity

And optionally, Beauty.
 

Bruno28

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Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
508
Location
Australia
Re: Thinking of deigning a new flashlight :)

If you're still interested in advice, then here's mine:

Build something you want for yourself.

If others want it, then they'll let you know and you can start selling.

Most people who start businesses hoping for a profit end up disappointed, especially in this industry.
That is very true about the business, do what suits you, not for the $$$

Single emitter XP-E2 large reflector thrower.

I was recently looking for this configuration and haven't been successful. Nearly all manufacturers are shoving XML and XPG emmiters into their lights trying to create large numbers on paper. It makes for a tough market to compete in. I see a lot of these types in the marketplace. They all seem like the same light, different manufacture.

There are a lot of floody beam lights. The lights that create laser type beams always sell fast. But no one does it with the most practical emmiter...The XP-E2

You'd have at least one guaranteed customer :)

Good advice,never seen a lights that create laser type beams.
 

Bruno28

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Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
508
Location
Australia
There is no such thing as an all around perfect light. There are lights that are prefect for a particular person or purpose.

Things I value would include:

* Robustness.

* Reliability

* Run time.

* simplicity

And optionally, Beauty.

Thanks for your suggestions!
Simplicity as in the design? or in the modes of functionality?
 

jamie.91

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Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
669
Location
United Kingdom
I like lights that are hard to believe, like the quark mini, it's so small, thin and fragile looking but so robust (mines stood the test if time) and compared to some similar lights this shows

I also like it when things "just work" and also simplicity, the less modes the better that's why I love my 9P with malkoff HCRI, it's so simple (ON/OFF single mode) and when you turn it on its flawless in terms of tint, beam pattern and lumen level.

I believe it's these traits that draw us to these lights in the first place and makes us hold onto them when others get sold on.
 
Last edited:

Ken_McE

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Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Messages
1,688
Simplicity as in the design? or in the modes of functionality?

Simple to operate. I have an LED Mini-Mag that you turn on and off quickly to shuffle it around between modes. Problem is, I have long since forgotten the code to how I'm supposed to cycle it on and off. I can make it work, but it also shuffles around into weird modes when I'm just trying to use the d***n light.
 
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