Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

Rekkie

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Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

I usually alternate between my Petzl Tikka RXP and my Nitecore HC30. I tend to use the Petzl for most of my urban running and the HC30 for trails. Both weigh about the same. All depends on how far/long I intend to run. Both have ~200 Lumen modes which In my opinion is more then enough light for both urban and trail. Although I only use the Petzl Autonomy modes on trails as it doesn't do well when an oncoming car's lights shine towards it.

But the HC30's silicone holder is extremely uncomfortable and it bobs a lot on my head. I DIY'd the HC30's bracket/holder onto the Petxl band with zip ties for a 100Miler earlier this year to try and get the best of both worlds...I wanted the battery life and lumens of the HC30 but the comfort of the Petzl. Worked fantastic and I only used one battery for the entire night, alternating between the 210 / 70 lumen modes depending on my pace and terrain, although it wasn't the prettiest setup.
 

regulator

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Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

The new Olight H2S seems like it meets many requirements.
 

Genzod

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Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

Results of August trail running:

After my trip from The Smokey Mountains where I viewed the eclipse, I traveled north to Virginia to camp and do some trail running. My section on the AT was from Hog Camp Gap to near the top of Chimney Rock in Three Ridges, then back. Total distance was about 47 miles--just under 16 hours total of running, about 7 hours at night.

My weight was about 190 lbs stripped (could still stand to lose 25-30 lbs), about 3 lbs of worn dress and gear and 18 lbs in pack (including 3-1/2 lbs of food and 4 lbs of water). My averaged speed in the section was 3 mph, not counting about 4 hours of zero forward progress time and 4 hours of sleep. Based on elevation change only, I consider this section to be above average in difficulty for the AT. There are more technical sections in Maine and NH that have a lot of rock hopping and persistent roots that are especially perilous when wet. I encountered no rain or trail wetness, and the only rock hopping I encountered was during the day.

Using my H53w, I found the 65 lumen setting to be more than adequate and I used it most of the time. Going uphill, I could stand to drop it to 30 lumens. I did not need a higher setting going downhill, although I didn't really encounter the steepest sections during the night. If I did I was anticipating using 122 lm for that. If I were just hiking (walking), I think the 30 lumen setting would have been plenty.

I did have a few rock kicks that came close to falls. I have those every now and then, but I think it is more of a function of letting my mind drift than not enough light. If I were to do a serious run where I strung several of these days together, I think I would ensure my footing with a step up in intensity, that is, use 122 lm for most running, instead of 65 lm.

Many people don't like to use spot/spill while trail running because of spot bounce. I wasn't annoyed by this, as I prefer to have a zone of higher intensity in the narrow trail corridor. The spill up close has such short range, it's about as bright as the spot 3-5m ahead of me. The spill to the sides only lights up the forest and is sufficient light to warn me of sudden surprises from Freddy Kruger or Big Foot. On a wider open area like urban running on a road, I like to fit the finger of a semi-transparent sterile glove over the lamp to diffuse the light.

The beauty of the Zebralight H53w is its programmable range of settings. I was comfortable most of the time with the options of 122/65/30 lumens (down/flat/up). If I need more light due to improvement in performance or just a need for insurance, I can choose 197/122/65. Although I probably wouldn't require it, I could even go to 275/197/122 or 330/275/197, if I really wanted to see a spike in Energizer stock (CEO Alan Hoskins could buy himself a new yacht.). That's why I selected this lamp. With stabilization and seating improvement techniques discussed previously, it's so lightweight and comfortable, I hardly notice it's on my head except for the light coming from it.

I had to replace a battery at one point early in the run. Not wanting to dig around for the replacement (I apparently moved it to a "better" location while packing) I ran with the back up lamp for a while, a Manker/BLF/Astrolux S1 cool white in 18350 configuration (no spring bypass--10,600 cd, 1400lm max). I chose a setting comparable to 65 lm on the ZL. The cool white tint was 6500K. Compared to the ZLH53w's 4500K, the tint difference was night and day. Contrasted, I liked the calming effect of the 4500K light better with improved color rendering of browns and greens. By itself though, it was hard for me to discern tint differences being that I'm an "amateur" when it comes to light. The ZLH53w just seemed like good, white light, perfect for forest colors.
 
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xcandrew

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In the winter, sunset can be 3-4 pm here, so most runs are night. Therefore, getting by with a low output solution doesn't make sense. I also don't want a different light for skiing vs. running vs. cycling, though I mostly ski and run in the winter. Bike and skiing headlamps, as well as orienteering headlamps (same as cross country skiing lights) are very well developed and useful, unlike the headlamps marketed to American runners. There are also low cost bike lights that aren't anemic, so that's what I'm using now.

I started doing night trail runs in the '90s in CA. If running in neighborhoods, multiuse paths, roads, no light was needed to see, but trails were another thing. There was a 12 mile loop that I often ran that was about 7-8 miles on trails. Most of the time, I would just go without a light. This would sometimes be totally fine when the ambient light was sufficient. For example overcast conditions would create a kind of glow even under the oak trees from light refracted from moonlight, distant city streetlights, and stars. Other times, such as with strong direct moonlight, or just very dark wet conditions, I wouldn't be able to see the ground at all under the trees, and it would feel like a black hole under the trees. I'd have to slow down from my daytime pace, but I enjoyed doing it for the adventure aspect. Animals active at night, like deer, mountain lions, bobcats, coyote, fox, squirrels, wild turkey, wild boar made it even more of an adventure. The headlamps that I sometimes used in the '90s were close to useless, except to help me see the ground under the trees, still at an inching-along pace. These headlamps included the Princeton Tec Solo, a 2AA halogen with very low lumens, and then a Princeton Tec Aurora, a 3 Nichia? LED headlamp with maybe 10-20 lumens.

When I joined this forum, I think my first post here was a review of the Princeton Tec EOS, which had just come out and would later be a favorite for modifications. I think it was around 30 lumens stock initially. That made it much more useful that the Aurora, but the beam was too narrow, and it was still too dim. I eventually modified it with a Seoul P4 emitter upgrade, and a Mc-18(?something like that?) reflector swap that made it the first headlamp that I had that was actually functional for running at night on trails. I think it put out about 100 lumens after the modification, and the beam was finally wide enough that I could point the hotspot up the trail while still being able to use the spill to see in front of my feet, as well as the side peripheries. I also added a homebrew external pack, so I could use it on the high setting continuously because the lower levels were useless for running. So I'd say that about 100 lumens is the minimum that I'd find useful for running, and that's only with a good optic or reflector that provides a good mix of spill and distance at the same time. Running pace would be reduced from daylight running pace. Maybe 7-11 minutes per mile on trails in dry conditions or packed snow (in AK by then).

Rain and wet ground makes things really, really dark. 100 lumens gets mostly absorbed, little gets reflected back, and it might only be bright enough for walking pace some nights on rooty trails. Sometimes even 1200 lumens in those light-sucking situations is just enough for running. You might have experienced similar situations while driving two lane road in middle of nowhere in the rain with faded lines, where you can barely see the road. When snow arrives, everything is much improved at night, and is much welcomed after a dark fall. Not all snow is equal though. Sometimes it's no more reflective than dry ground, but it's better than wet ground.

I have since used a succession of bike lights for running since the first Magicshine MJ-808 ("900 lumens", really about 600 lumens initially) maybe about 10 years ago, which was a copy of the Lupine Tesla. This was followed by the Gemini Lights Xera (about 800 lumens? initially, single emitter), Gemini Duo 1500 (dual emitter, 1200+ Lumens actual), and now a cheap copy of the Duo, the Yinding 900 (actual 1200 lumens). I have mostly used 2x18650 packs with my bike headlamps, with a burn time on high about 1-1.5 hours. Since most of my runs or skis are about 1.5-2.5 hours, I tend to use the medium setting most of the time to make sure I don't run out of battery life before I'm done.

On the Yinding, medium is about 600 lumens. Pace varies a lot depending on the trail and what I'm doing, but I'd only drop to low (maybe 300 lumens) if I'm walking or running up a ridge/mountain at night, or anticipate a long outing and don't want to run out of battery life. One purpose of having sufficient light is to not have a difference between my nighttime pace compared to my daytime pace. I have a lot of Strava course records for downhills that I actually have run at night. Paces for some of those nighttime efforts include about 4:47 pace per mile average for 2+ miles down a trail with 1200 lumens blazing. I sometimes top out close to 4:00 pace (15 mph) on parts of those downhills.

Mountain bikers typically run one light on the handlebars and one light on the helmet, each with 800-1500 lumens max or more. A strong runner on trails is really not much different than a mountain biker. I think I read that typical local cross country mountain bike races, semi-technical and with ups and downs are won at 9-11 mph (daytime). I also run 10+ mph in the local trail races that are held on the same trails. When a mountain biker is riding uphill as slowly as a typical runner, they might turn down their lights, but they don't turn their lights down to 100 lumens for good reason. Their lights vary, but have a good broad spread for at least one of their lights to make sure it's not tunnel vision. My Yinding has a very broad spread of light with a good center weighting ( https://youtu.be/RKj0zs9IbdY ). 300 or 600 lumens, when spread out, isn't overpowering. And when compared to 100 lumens, you just see better. You see the roots, ruts, rocks on the ground. You don't have tunnel vision. And, importantly here, you see the eyeshine of the moose and bears in the woods (or neighborhood here) before you run into them, even if you aren't going fast.

Other conditions: In a blizzard with really blowing snow, I've found that the more lumens the better. I've been in a blizzard where 1200 lumens was just enough (and wanted more), while 600 and 300 were too low.

In Europe, especially Scandinavia, where it's as dark as it is here in the winter, and where orienteering is popular, they have the right idea with their orienteering/skiing headlamps. There, runners racing through the woods at night use headlamps like the LEDX Cobra with 6500 lumens - no one there thinking 100 lumens is enough for running in the woods. Here's my thread from last winter: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?429338-Headlamp-Porn-(Night-Orienteering)
 
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PartyPete

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I use a Fenix HL10 2016 for my once or twice a week morning runs, as well as general use and power outages. I like the convenience of using a single AAA as well as that it's comfortable and lightweight; it weighs about 2 oz total.

I'm sure there's brighter and longer running lamps out there but I rarely use it more than 45 minutes at a time and really dislike large bulky contraptions on my head. So this works well for me. Despite being rated at 70 lumens it looks closer to 100 to me and is plenty bright for my humble needs. It's a cooler tint but never bothered me in rain or fog.

In the future I may look into something more potent, or conversely something as bright and smaller if possible but for now it works.
 

mickb

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Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

Fenix HL-23 on medium most of the time, which is about 50LM.
 

mountainwalker

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Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

Looking forward to reading this thread, very timely after my old headlamp was badly damaged and needs replacing. For walking on familiar smooth ground or trails, 60 lumen range is fine, and for less familiar trails or rougher trails with lots of rocks and roots, +120 lumen range. I know some walkers who suggest using 2 lights, one headlamp and one at waist level. I prefer to stick with one headlamp.

Just posted a similar discussion from the standpoint of backpacking first, then trail running. Amazed by how LED tech has progressed. The current runtimes and lumens available for single AA and 18650 are amazing.

Looking at both AA models and 18650 models. For AA, been looking at the Zebralight H53W, Armytek Tiara A1 V2 XP-L and Thrunite TH20 and still collecting suggestions. For AA I'm leaning toward the H53W.

For 18650 still collecting suggestions. Prefer neutral white over cold-blue white. Like beam with both flood and some spot for distance. Leaning toward the H600w Mk III XHP35 Neutral White.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Other-14500-AA-or-18650&p=5139382#post5139382
 
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Labrador72

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Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

Fenix HL55! Own two and use them both for mountain hiking, running and ultra races !

Generally use 165 lumens, at least on easy trails or even technical climbs! For fast downhills or technical terrain normally jump up to 420 lumens!

Sometimes use only 50 if on a moonlit night or moving next to several other hikers or runners on easy terrain!

Always also carry a PD31 to have some throw and be able to check out landscape features further away!
 
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mountainwalker

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Center Hotspot+Flood or Flood? Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners

Up to now I've always used headlamps that have a center hotspot + peripheral flood, for a combination of punch in the center for distance and flood for peripheral vision, as I found earlier floody lamps didn't offer enough distance illumination (this was years ago). I prefer warmer neutral tints to cold blue white. I'm about to pick up some new headlamps and beam pattern is the last feature I'm considering on the list. To continue my typical beam pattern up to now I was looking at the Zebralight H53W and H600W headlamps.

For backpacking (not running) do you prefer a Floody beam or Center Hotspot + Flood beam?

For backpacking, I typically use headlamps on very low settings in camp, and occasionally use higher settings for when hiking has been extended into late hours to reach a better camp spot, or when starting out in the dark of the middle of the night. Otherwise I don't typically plan to cover long stretches of trail in the dark over many hours.

For night hiking and trail running, do you prefer a Floody beam or Center Hotspot + Flood beam?

For hiking and trail running, I use my headlamp on medium-high settings when hikes or runs finish in dark hours especially in winter. Typically this is on local trails I know well and generally this is between 30 min to an hour and only sometimes a bit longer.
 

Genzod

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Re: Center Hotspot+Flood or Flood?

headlamps.

For backpacking (not running) do you prefer a Floody beam or Center Hotspot + Flood beam?

I like more light concentrated in the trail, and less spill to see the bear planning to have me for dinner. 30-ish lumens is plenty for walking (for me), as I only need 9lm minimum for walking in forest in that configuration. I considered it the economical end of what I needed for walking. After regulation in the lamp ceased, the intensity dropped off quickly requiring battery replacement almost soon after.

But I have 8.5mm dark adapted pupils (human range varies from 4-9mm), and that's not typical for my age. A wider dark adapted pupil allows more light in the eye, and thus sees better in the dark.

Have your optometrist measure it, or use a camera (pre-flash off), ruler under eye, dark room (not greater than 1 lux intensity at your eye) and MS Paint utilizing the line function (has digital measuring on lower border of window) to measure yours.

You can compare my level of economical light to your eye with this equation :

L=9 lm *(8.5mm/Diameterpupil​)^2​

At the time that I used 9 lm for night hiking (Princeton Tech Quad) 20 lm medium setting was more than enough for me. I considered that luxury walking light. But my lamp would burn out 3.5x faster in medium, so i used the economical low setting.

If you have 6mm dark adapted pupils, you might find you need 18 lm for economical walking light and 36 lm for luxury walking light.

Tasking (cooking, fetching water and reading) is best served with and even spread of flood light. I use 3M invisible tape over my spot/spill H53w Zebralight headlamp for that. EDIT: Oops, I used to apply tape. Since then, I've learned the finger tip of a semitransparent medical glove made of vinyl works best.

I should bring up that dark adapted pupil size is probably the biggest factor affecting why there is so much variance among people for their preference in output.

If I'm fine using 65 lm with a spot spill configuration for running, a person who has the same constraints for illumination as I, who has a 6mm dark adapted pupil (about average for someone in his mid-50s) would want 130 lm (in the same lamp) to see with the same intensity.
 
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Loverofthelight

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Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

For general urban running about 100 lumens is fairly enough.
While trail running, I choose about 200 lumens.
I prefer spot- and floodlight headlamp. I am waiting for someone who can share their experience on Fenix ECO headlamps.:naughty:
 
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