Using Li-ion cells in LED flashlights safely

[ven]

3.6v sbslider is not too low, that is the nominal voltage , also a good storage voltage(maybe 40-50% capacity. Most cells (variable) have a min voltage of 2.5-2.8v, so to play it a little safer, 3v minimum is a safe voltage to not go bellow(leaves a little room). But even then, if the voltage is bellow the min spec, for example it is 2.3v measured. As long as the cell has not been in this state for a period of time, it should charge up fine(being monitored to add) with minimal issue/potential damage. Most lights do have a built in LVP, also even without the LVP(low voltage protection) not many flashlights will power up at 3v, or certainly not in high modes. As with the load and voltage sag, it will blink or go out letting you know.

The little RCR123a cells(16340) do not have much capacity, usually 6-700mah in the tank(yours is 550mah ). Its a good idea to use the light and check cell voltage after a few uses. This way you will get an idea of how much use and where the voltage will roughly be. With my 16340 cells, i tend to top off back to 4.2v after use, as even a little use with higher levels(exl low and moon modes) does eat through the mah pretty quick. So by topping them back up to 4.2v, i know exactly where i am up to and good to go again. Now at 3.6v, you dont have that much left, certainly if your going to be attempting higher levels(if the light allow use at that V). If its for regular use, i would certainly carry a spare cell or 2 for the light. If you find your swapping cells out regular, then a compact 18650 light may work better for you. I love 16340 lights, the form for me is perfect for EDC uses, but not ideal for any decent duration. I would struggle in work for example, where a few hours of 200lm( ish as a variable) might be needed.

3.6v is a good place to top back up yes, but there are no safety issues at that voltage, nor going lower towards 3v. Maybe he was just giving you a large buffer to be extra safe, but i am sure the olight mentioned will not work bellow 3v.

 

[sbslider]

My testing says 3.6V is about 25% capacity for the battery I am using, Olight ORB-163C05 IMR RCR123A. I ran some testing recently on it, you can see the results here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-ORB-163C05-IMR-RCR123A&p=5166812#post5166812

I use the light mostly at moonlight mode, and on medium. It will last a week or more for me taking nightly walks with my wife, so I really like it.

 

[david.allie]

One other useful size you might want to mention was the 17500s; they're 1.5 CR123 cells, so you can stack 2 of them in a 3xCR123 light.

And that's where the 17500s shine -- 2 17500s at 4.2V starts at 8.4V, whereas 3 primaries @ 3V each start with 9V. Since the Li-ion hold up better under load, they work out great in most such applications.

I admit to being a n00b and know this is an old thread...

I'm not understanding how 2 17500s at 4.2V/each is better and "holds up better under load" than 3 CR123As at 3.0V/each. Would someone explain this to me?

 

[lumen aeternum]

but show me a
3xCR123 light

 

[david.allie]

but show me a
3xCR123 light

About 3 years ago, I bought the [FONT=&quot]Inova T5-MP Tactical flashlight. It's a 3 x CR123A light. Works well, too.[/FONT]

 

[SilverFox]

Hello David.allie,

Welcome to CPF.

I believe you need to review the discharge charts for CR123 cells and 17500 cells. If the voltage remains higher on the 17500 cells, they should perform better.

Tom

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Lumen aeternum,

The Streamlight 88047 ProTac HL 3 is another light that uses 3X CR123 cells.

Tom

 

[xevious]

I have just one related question -- is it OK to recharge 2 x RCR123 cells in series? Even if a flashlight maker has produced a flashlight with recharging circuit primarily designed for 18650, but claims it can handle 2 x RCR123 for both output and recharging? I've never seen a dedicated charger support 2 x RCR123 in series, which of course makes sense because it can't detect individual cell status this way... which means one cell might end up overcharged while the other cell is still charging. So I'm presuming that 2 x RCR123 charging in a flashlight is not a good idea, even if a flashlight maker says it is possible.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Xevious,

If the cells are closely matched you can get away with charging in series without balancing for awhile.

One way to deal with this is to make it a practice of charging the R-CR123 cells externally in a charger and just know that if you need to charge inside the flashlight you do have that option.

Tom

 

[AirTrainer]

If a fully-charged lithium battery (26650) sits idle for 2-4 months subsequent to charging, is there a safety concern? If the battery is sitting within a flashlight with the tail cap partially-unscrewed so as to open the flashlight's circuit, is there a safety concern? If there are two lithium batteries in series within the partially-unscrewed flashlight, is there a safety concern?

I haven't dipped my toes in the lithium battery 'pond' and I'm trying to decide if I'm going to bother. NiMH has been pretty low-maintenance compared to the impressions about lithium I've formed while reading this thread.

 

[dragosios]

Open-circuit will not drain any battery, single or series.
Overall yes, lithium based ones have a higher energy to weight ratio, but they are more sensitive. Overcharging is a particular concern, but overdischarge will also render them unusable.

 

[Espionage Studio]

I have 2 Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA with a button top and would be running them both in a Wildcat V5. I recall back in the day that it was better to run IMR cells if you are running a pair and I cannot figure out if these are safe to run in pairs. Are these IMR? They are a protected cell so that leads me to believe they are not. Just wanting to be safe and not ruin anything. Thanks for the help!

 

[aznsx]

I have 2 Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA with a button top and would be running them both in a Wildcat V5. I recall back in the day that it was better to run IMR cells if you are running a pair and I cannot figure out if these are safe to run in pairs. Are these IMR? They are a protected cell so that leads me to believe they are not. Just wanting to be safe and not ruin anything. Thanks for the help!

Take this with a whole block of salt, because cells / batts are not my expertise, and I'm only commenting / speculating. Someone else may have a definitive (proper) answer.

My gut feel is that I would prefer to use protected Li-ion cells in series vs un-protected cells - independent of chemistry.

That aside, my main thought is that it would probably be best if the two cells are in very similar condition. I would buy them as a pair, and use them as a pair. That's generally 'best practice' as far as I know with any type of cells in series multi-cell applications.

 

[mrfixitman]

I run two 26650 A123 cell in a three C cell Maglite. 7.2 volts.

 

[desert.snake]

I wonder if it should be disposed of or if it will still serve? When fully charged, it produces current inside of 6PX Pro 320 lm 50 and 370 mA. New 18650 produces current 60 and 1240 mA

Just for fun, I left it on for a couple of days, it lasted 2,5 days at a level of about 15 lm and discharged to 3 volts. After that, it charged to 4.2 V in 5 minutes, but smart charging cannot accurately show the voltage


Performance began to drop sharply after a test with the 6P module, which, as it turned out, did not have temperature control and was a direct drive. I left for an hour, when I returned, the flashlight body was very hot and the heat shrink had melted. The battery also fell onto the concrete floor many times and was washed in the washing machine a couple of times

 

[PaladinNO]

I accidentally managed to short a battery just now (wanted to measure it on a caliper, and it briefly touched both ends, just what I was trying to avoid) - there was a tiny spark, but nothing else. No smoke or physical signs of damage.

But it doesn't seem to work anymore, and I'm not sure what to do with it. Personally, I want to give it up for recycling, to not take any chances.

It was a brand new Coast ZX955 21700.

ZX955 Rechargeable Battery

The COAST ZX955 ZITHION-X™ Li-Ion rechargeable battery is designed with an integrated USB-C allowing the convenience of your battery to be charged outside your light. All COAST ZITHION-X™ batteries include a built-in charge level indicator. All batteries are protected with overcharge/discharge...

coastportland.com

Also, there is a weak clicking sound coming off of it that I don't think was there before. Similar to this, but much slower clicking and barely audible.

 

[TIFisher]

I accidentally managed to short a battery just now (wanted to measure it on a caliper, and it briefly touched both ends, just what I was trying to avoid) - there was a tiny spark, but nothing else. No smoke or physical signs of damage.

But it doesn't seem to work anymore, and I'm not sure what to do with it. Personally, I want to give it up for recycling, to not take any chances.

It was a brand new Coast ZX955 21700.

ZX955 Rechargeable Battery

The COAST ZX955 ZITHION-X™ Li-Ion rechargeable battery is designed with an integrated USB-C allowing the convenience of your battery to be charged outside your light. All COAST ZITHION-X™ batteries include a built-in charge level indicator. All batteries are protected with overcharge/discharge...

coastportland.com

Also, there is a weak clicking sound coming off of it that I don't think was there before. Similar to this, but much slower clicking and barely audible.

You (thankfully) tripped the cell's protection circuit. It might be possible to reset it, but I personally wouldn't bother with it.

 

[iacchus]

I accidentally managed to short a battery just now (wanted to measure it on a caliper, and it briefly touched both ends, just what I was trying to avoid) - there was a tiny spark, but nothing else. No smoke or physical signs of damage.

But it doesn't seem to work anymore, and I'm not sure what to do with it. Personally, I want to give it up for recycling, to not take any chances.

It was a brand new Coast ZX955 21700.

ZX955 Rechargeable Battery

The COAST ZX955 ZITHION-X™ Li-Ion rechargeable battery is designed with an integrated USB-C allowing the convenience of your battery to be charged outside your light. All COAST ZITHION-X™ batteries include a built-in charge level indicator. All batteries are protected with overcharge/discharge...

coastportland.com

Also, there is a weak clicking sound coming off of it that I don't think was there before. Similar to this, but much slower clicking and barely audible.

get you a pair of carbon fiber calipers. Like $10 on Amazon. Cheaper if you order from Ali or whatever storefront over there.

I agree that you probably tripped the protection circuit on that cell, but I've never heard one click before. If it were me, I'd dispose of it.

 

[PaladinNO]

@TIFisher @iacchus
Thank you for the confirmation, that was what I assumed had happened.
I carefully placed the battery in a metal bucket outdoors the same day, in case something else will happen with it.

Really annoying, because I had that little voice in the back of my head before it happened that said "just add some electrical tape, just in case, and add a millimeter to the measurement". My dumb self never learns to listen to that voice, and that's when s**t happens.