VME Ideal Pairing

[TILL-22]

Thanks a lot!

 

[InvisibleFrodo]

I thought the VME was only 1.125 inches diameter? I was under the impression it was 1/8 inch smaller than an MD2 head?

 

[thermal guy]

All mine are 1.115. 28.3 mm

1.2" is 30.48 mm

 

[greatscoot]

Fixed it, hadn't had my coffee yet.

 

[thermal guy]

Brother that's my whole life anymore 😂😂

 

[TILL-22]

Today I moved to a different desk at work and I literally have the coffee machine next to me. I don't have to get up to pour me a cup of coffee. This is dangerous.

 

[WhiskeyLight]

What is this "Ideal" of which you speak?

My top 3 VME pairings, in no particular order:
1) MDC 16650 body, M361 219B v3, VME (running on a 16650)
2) MDC 1AA body, M31LLL 219B v3, VME (running on a single AA)
3) MDC 1CR123 body, M61L, VME (running on a RCR123)

 

[bignc]

What is this "Ideal" of which you speak?

My top 3 VME pairings, in no particular order:
1) MDC 16650 body, M361 219B v3, VME (running on a 16650)
2) MDC 1AA body, M31LLL 219B v3, VME (running on a single AA)
3) MDC 1CR123 body, M61L, VME (running on a RCR123)

Close for me too.
16650 with M61WLL OR the LLLL
1aa body with M31W
2aa body with M31L or LL both in 219b
123 body with M61WLL running on rcr with a primary as a backup- runs a LOOOONG time. Also keep a M31L 219b around and sometimes use it with the 123 or 2AA body.

LOVE!

 

[flashy bazook]

Close for me too.
16650 with M61WLL OR the LLLL
1aa body with M31W
2aa body with M31L or LL both in 219b
123 body with M61WLL running on rcr with a primary as a backup- runs a LOOOONG time. Also keep a M31L 219b around and sometimes use it with the 123 or 2AA body.

LOVE!

How well does the M61WLL work with 1x16650? It is not really designed for a 1 LiIon battery setup.

 

[TILL-22]

The M61 (and L and LL) are designed for 1 Li-Ion battery or 2 lithium primaries. The voltage range is 3,4 - 6 V.

 

[flashy bazook]

The M61 (and L and LL) are designed for 1 Li-Ion battery or 2 lithium primaries. The voltage range is 3,4 - 6 V.

Thank you, I appreciate the response! Just to check -- on the Malkoff website it says about the M61 (and M61L and LL):

"The input voltage is 3.4 - 9 volts. Below 3.4 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive."

So one question is whether you can indeed drive these new M61's with 3xCR123A's (primaries) with a 9 volt max.

On my regulated flashlights designed for 1xLiIon, they will drive the battery down to 2.8 volts or so. A big gap from 3.4 volts.

I also tested an older M61W I have with a 1xLiIon and it works but lights very weakly, much lower than its standard output.

I am very interested to learn that the new M61's really run well on 1xLiIon, for me it is new information.

 

[Owen]

It's not new information, it's bad information.
Ironically, the Malkoff forum is the worst possible place for info about Malkoff flashlights.
The M61 was not designed to run on 1xli-ion, and the full output version will not stay in regulation for very long.
When the battery's voltage under load(and minus the drop due the circuit's innefficiency, presumably losing ~15%) drops below that required of the LED, the M61 will no longer run in regulation. The L and LL will have proportionately longer regulated runtimes due to their smaller loads on the battery resulting in less voltage drop.

 

[bignc]

I have what is probably version 2 of most drop ins. if you have not looked at the RUNTIME test thread, I would. Tons of into there.

My only FULL output malkoffs- A couple m31w, a couple older M61 219b from Illumn, an M61T, an M91t and a group buy m91n. The 91s have huge voltage ranges (in and out of regulation.)

The rest of my M61 crew are multiples each of LL, L in N and W tints (not to mention the LLLL from the group buy) and they are my favorite all purpose BECAUSE they run well on 1 or 2 li-ion as well as primaries! Best thing you can do is search i guess as i don't have the equipment others have- but i found multiple threads on the topic. You can also PM me and i'll help however i can. But i don't post openly much since i am not an Electrical Engineer and people here will roast you these days if you use layman's terms or personal experience- i don't post about or do ANYTHING dangerous (just to clarify- i guess other than use lithium batteries lol.)

 

[TILL-22]

It's not new information, it's bad information.
Ironically, the Malkoff forum is the worst possible place for info about Malkoff flashlights.
The M61 was not designed to run on 1xli-ion, and the full output version will not stay in regulation for very long.
When the battery's voltage under load(and minus the drop due the circuit's innefficiency, presumably losing ~15%) drops below that required of the LED, the M61 will no longer run in regulation. The L and LL will have proportionately longer regulated runtimes due to their smaller loads on the battery resulting in less voltage drop.

Are you saying what I said is wrong? The regulated output for a M61 is 3,4 - 6 V. So as long as the single li-ion battery is above 3,4 V it gives the full output (450 lumens or so IIRC for the M61, not talking about the L and LL here), below that the output will taper off. I'd say if you can use full output for ~50% of the battery life and having a long taper after that it's a suited dropin for a single cell, even if it was originally designed to work with 2xCR123 cells.

 

[Dicaeopolis]

"The flashlight is designed for one rechargeable 18650 cell or two primary CR123A cells." That's what is says on the Malkoff website for the 450 lumen MD2.

 

[flashy bazook]

"The flashlight is designed for one rechargeable 18650 cell or two primary CR123A cells." That's what is says on the Malkoff website for the 450 lumen MD2.

You are right, it says that for the 450 lumen MD2, but does not give much detail, like voltage range or even type of LED.

But for the M61 drop-in (plus the L and LL's) it says "The input voltage is 3.4 - 9 volts. Below 3.4 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive".

So I guess there is some confusion because I was thinking about the M61 drop-in but others are thinking of the M61 MD2, which seems to be a different product altogether.

Going back to the original question, what can be used in the VME, I think it makes sense to talk about the M61 drop-in, which does not seem to be designed to be used with a 1xLiIon but could maybe be used that way.

Now it is interesting if the M61 drop-in can be used with the VME head, and how well it fits considering only 1xLiIon will be available. I tried this with the older M61W drop-in that I have around, and it lit but very weakly, so I would say that drop-in is not a good candidate for the VME head. But I do not have the newer M61 so cannot test it.

Perhaps someone who has the new M61 can just try to run it with a 1xLiIon, for example the 18650, and report how well it does?

 

[Owen]

Are you saying what I said is wrong? The regulated output for a M61 is 3,4 - 6 V.

Of course, it's wrong.
The M61 was designed for 2-3 CR123A.
The MD2 is just a body that fits 2x123 or 1x18650.

 

[TILL-22]

Of course, it's wrong.
The M61 was designed for 2-3 CR123A.
The MD2 is just a body that fits 2x123 or 1x18650.

Well, I guess I should have said "designed for 2 lithium primaries and works fine on 1 li-ion cell" in stead of the below quote. I thought the input range was up to 6 V and not 9 V though, my bad.
I never said anything about the MD2 though.

The M61 (and L and LL) are designed for 1 Li-Ion battery or 2 lithium primaries. The voltage range is 3,4 - 6 V.

 

[thermal guy]

Unless the new M61 driver has changed the M61 works best with a single lithium ion. Check out post 129 in one runtime graphs. It's putting out a little less output then 2X123 but not enough to see the difference. But will run much longer. My M61's that run on 16650 or 18650's are just as bright to my eye as on 6 volts.

 

[Robot Mania FU]

You are right, it says that for the 450 lumen MD2, but does not give much detail, like voltage range or even type of LED.

But for the M61 drop-in (plus the L and LL's) it says "The input voltage is 3.4 - 9 volts. Below 3.4 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive".

So I guess there is some confusion because I was thinking about the M61 drop-in but others are thinking of the M61 MD2, which seems to be a different product altogether.

Going back to the original question, what can be used in the VME, I think it makes sense to talk about the M61 drop-in, which does not seem to be designed to be used with a 1xLiIon but could maybe be used that way.

Now it is interesting if the M61 drop-in can be used with the VME head, and how well it fits considering only 1xLiIon will be available. I tried this with the older M61W drop-in that I have around, and it lit but very weakly, so I would say that drop-in is not a good candidate for the VME head. But I do not have the newer M61 so cannot test it.

Perhaps someone who has the new M61 can just try to run it with a 1xLiIon, for example the 18650, and report how well it does?

The M61 that is sold inside of the MD2 body is exactly the same as the M61 drop in that is also sold on it's own. I could be wrong here, but I would be willing to bet at least 75%+ of the people who buy the md2 run it on an 18650. The drop in is regulated between 3.4-9v's meaning you should see no noticeable difference in output when running anything within that voltage range. If I remember correctly, when you increase voltage with this driver it will just lower the current draw from your cells. The driver does not allow any additional current to be delivered to the LED. The question is, will that 18650 drop from 4.2v's down below 3.4v into direct drive before two cr123's will drop from 6v's to below 3.4v and that all depends on your batteries capacity. The output should not change (at least nothing you could physically see) as long as whatever cell you are using is above 3.4v's and below 9v's.

I run an m61wLL in a VME on a 16340, but can drop my m61w from my MD2 in and the 16340 still powers the drop in exactly the same as an 18650 or 2cr123's when it's in the md2 body. It's just a question of run time before it drops into direct drive and then begins its taper down over time.