What should we do with this forum?

[DrAT]

I'd keep the forum open, together with the warning. There are few places where victims (like me) can discuss their progress in getting refunds or their overdue orders.
I think Lummi would like to sweep this sorry story under the carpet. Without a voice for those affected,, I think it will.
If and when matters are resolved to my satisfaction, I would like somewhere to publish the fact too. I'm sure that what most of those out of pocket would like nothing more is to say that if was worth the years of waiting, their torch is so good.

 

[Robocop]

Gentlemen believe me when we say we do understand however there are several active threads where you can post your details as to why you are angry. I do not feel as if this thread is intended as a jeer thread nor is it intended to be an arena for venting frustration. We are asking for your input on how to proceed with the sub-forum and thus far you have had some excellent suggestions.

As members (and victims) your majority decisions are welcome to be hashed out here in this thread. I will say that I for one greatly appreciate the way our members have responded thus far. It is nice to see that even as victims our membership still retains their integrity.....Thank you.

 

[fyrstormer]

When I started on CPF, folks were still fuming about AWR. Over a time, I noticed a single theme to most every builder problem: taking money before something is ready to ship. Time after time (including several new examples this year) it creates issues and people keep doing it (sellers and buyers).

Simple rule to prevent 99% of issues, never post for sale what's not ready to ship!

Exactly. Also, who was AWR?

 

[mglamb]

Exactly. Also, who was AWR?

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?149796-JEERS-to-AWR-(andrewwynn)

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?163465-I-Paid-AWR-but-he-hasn-t-delivered

 

[Blerv]

Deleted

 

[bf1]

Come on guys, we are all only human in a horrible economy. Even though or intensions might be honorable ; sometimes extenuating circumstances might get the best of us even if our intensions are just. How can our community be so critical of a man that has been such a creative force for so many years be so judgemental?

I would hope that we are all better people on these forums to let Rob work out the situation. Hopefully we would all be supportive of any other builder under the same circumstances.

 

[mglamb]

Come on guys, we are all only human in a horrible economy. Even though or intensions might be honorable ; sometimes extenuating circumstances might get the best of us even if our intensions are just. How can our community be so critical of a man that has been such a creative force for so many years be so judgemental?

I would hope that we are all better people on these forums to let Rob work out the situation. Hopefully we would all be supportive of any other builder under the same circumstances.

My, how patronizing. Read the four threads stickied to the top of this forum. All of the posts in each. Read the following threads in Cheers and Jeers:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?200269-Jeers-(3)-To-Lummi

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?218491-Jeers-to-Orb-(Lummi)

Again, read all of the posts. Take note of the dates involved. Take note of how Rob takes the money, makes repeated false promises and then stops responding to communication. The minute Rob starts ignoring communication from people he owes, he is no longer a victim but a criminal. Deal with it - we are.

 

[bf1]

Patronizing I don't think so. Understanding perhaps. The majority of Rob's customers do not purchase their lights from Walmart. Life can be a risk reward venture. So my advice would be to just get over it.

 

[mglamb]

I've deleted two replies before hitting "Post" and I'm not going to write a third. Your suggestion that people who've been cheated by Rob should "just get over it" is absurd. I have no idea what your Wal-Mart remark is supposed to mean but it comes across as demeaning.

 

[Robocop]

Once again this thread is not for discussion of Robs business practices and it is not a place to have a heated debate between supporters and victims. This is a thread for discussion of how our members feel we should handle this sub-forum. Anyone is free to add their thoughts on why we should, or should not, leave it open however off topic discussions will only clutter up this thread.

The baiting comments will stop and for anyone who wishes to look there are several open threads for discussing the current situation with Orb......do not do it here. This thread is a very sincere attempt to involve all of our members in a decision we must make and for a few who will not listen to wreck it would be a shame......last warning gentlemen.

 

[boss429]

Leave it open! You never know what positive could happen!

 

[thebeans]

Leave it open! You never know what positive could happen!

I vote to leave it open too. Something positive could happen as stated above. Also, it will be a place for people to post that they do or do not receive orders and how long it took. That way maybe we can see if Rob is tending to get orders out sooner or if things remain unchanged.

After reading quite a bit about Lummi yesterday I decided to email him and ask what he had in stock right now. I stated that I didn't want to order if there was no stock because I didn't want to wait many months as others had. He replied back very quickly that he would have available Friday (tomorrow): Wee in NS/SS/Ti and Raw in NS/SS/Ti without locators. Problem is, I wonder if this is true? Doesn't he still have folks waiting for these very lights? If orders are not caught up, why would he sell one to me before shipping lights owed to others??? So sad because they are quite beautiful lights.

 

[boss429]

I vote to leave it open too. Something positive could happen as stated above. Also, it will be a place for people to post that they do or do not receive orders and how long it took. That way maybe we can see if Rob is tending to get orders out sooner or if things remain unchanged.

After reading quite a bit about Lummi yesterday I decided to email him and ask what he had in stock right now. I stated that I didn't want to order if there was no stock because I didn't want to wait many months as others had. He replied back very quickly that he would have available Friday (tomorrow): Wee in NS/SS/Ti and Raw in NS/SS/Ti without locators. Problem is, I wonder if this is true? Doesn't he still have folks waiting for these very lights? If orders are not caught up, why would he sell one to me before shipping lights owed to others??? So sad because they are quite beautiful lights.

IMHO-It may be easier to get a Paypal payment/address/label/ship from a new order than to go back through numerous disgruntled order's emails and hunt up their info.

 

[Nyctophiliac]

Yeah, after careful consideration, I think we should leave this forum open. For all of the reasons stated either for a source of information on the lights and the supply and demand (!), or a place to inform others of tales of woe or joy, as they happen.

It would be a shame for all these threads to sink without trace.

And I hold out some hope that the only English bespoke torch manufacturer may yet confound his critics and leave all his customers ultimately satisfied!

 

[Ways]

Leave it open if for no other reason that to give those of us with outstanding orders a place to commiserate with each other!

 

[Nyctophiliac]

Leave it open if for no other reason that to give those of us with outstanding orders a place to commiserate with each other!

You should put what you are owed in the outstanding order thread.

 

[Monocrom]

With regards to Rob, don't ban him. Here's why . . .

Although Rob is the entire operation at Lummi, and he's done an excellent job of pissing away his good name and reputation. In case he develops a conscience and finally decides to do the right thing by his customers who gave him their trust, loyalty, and hard-earned money; he should have that one last opportunity.

Also, if Rob cares to respond to many of his former customers or the claims against him; he should be able to do so. If he continues to come up with one sad excuse after another instead of some real answers, then his status could be re-considered.

I do think it would be best to close this sub-forum to any new topics and archive many of the older ones.

 

[nbp]

I have no horse in this race other than being disgusted by Rob's business practices and treatment of customers and members. That said, I have some thoughts.*

As Rob still has business with members, I don't think he should be banned. He may yet come to his senses.*

However, by his own admission and his actions he shows he doesn't want to be a part if this community anymore, and therefore should not have his own subforum. I realize though that there is useful discussion and information here, so that stuff should still be available to members.*

What I would propose is that the one "Still Waiting" thread would be moved to the Custom B/S/T forum and stickied like the Arc Mania thread. All discussion of those waiting for orders could be done there. *Other stickied warnings/complaints threads could be linked for reference but closed for discussion with the exception of the Jeers thread in the MP where members can go for all venting and fuming, leaving the CPF thread solely for business.*

All other Lummi threads of value could simply be moved into the LED Lights forum like the Arc threads were for research/discussion purposes.*

Once empty the Lummi forum could be deleted.*

That's my idea. Whether the admin likes it or any part of it is up to them I suppose.*

 

[Curt R]

The ARC forum was closed after Peter was no longer part of the
ARC management team. I have mixed feelings about that as we
made all of the mechanical parts for most of his lights. He made
some mistakes that cost him dearly. Rob might have gotten himself
into a situation that may have limited his ability to acquire parts or
electronics. This can be a tough business in a bad economic time
with the rise of the China cheepies. Rob should have communicated
his problems to his customers before it got out of hand. We have
also had problems delivering specials due to the revamping of the
entire pocket line to use the QTC variable output 'pill'. Our web site
is three years out of date, and that is a concern, but our distributor
handles current inventory.

I hope that what I have just written is not out of line with the rules
of CPF. But things can happen beyond our control, and that is one
example of what could happen. There may be others, but Rob may
have been embarrassed to tell. I do not know Rob, but I do know
Peter and some of the background of what happened that others do
not.

Rob may have let frustrations get the best of him, that can happen
to anyone, especially if they are fundamentally honest to begin with.

Curt

 

[Monocrom]

Problems arise. That's obvious. It's how you handle those problems that really counts. Rob handled them in a very poor manner. (To put it mildly.) It's the things he did have control over that's the issue. For example, having several lights ready to go. Rather than deliver them to his customers who had already paid for them, he decided to sell them off to others in order to make more money. He had control over that.