Why is Surefire so expensive

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dealgrabber2002

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I think it's a fair question to ask if he/she knew to the hobby. If you're new and you see plenty of $10-$40 lights with thousands of lumen, all of a sudden you see this "Surefire" going for hundreds with 1/2 the brightness, you want to know why.
 
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DayofReckoning

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Any comments on the drop test that was performed here around 2:50?

In addition, I went ahead and went back several pages here in the LED forum, just 6 pages to be exact, just to look for threads regarding problems with lights. Yes, this is just a tiny sample, but here is what that resulted in.

Olight s1a trouble
Fenix TKUE18 dissapointment then joy then buring smell, third time lucky?
Nitecore... AGAIN
RIP Arc-aaa
Nitecore MT1C not switching modes?
Nitecore Tube UV LED keychain light died
Fenix E05 head keeps popping off.
Jetbeam RRT1 stay always on
Fenix LD 75C failures
Problems with my Mini-Maglite Pro

Threads regarding problems with Surefire. Zero. Nilch. Nada.

Now I'm not saying Surefire lights are immune to problems. That wouldn't be true. One can search "surefire problems" and one can see that there can and has been issues at times. But it's my experience that there are far, far more threads about problems that pop with other brands versus Surefire. I'm willing to bet if I went back further into the threads the trend above would continue.

I'm not a Surefire fanboy. In fact there are a lot of things about the direction the company is going that I'm not a fan of. And there are other brands that I like, like Fenix, which makes a fine product for the price. But I just call things like I see them. And I see Surefire as the most reliable lights there are. You don't have to agree.
 
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KITROBASKIN

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Giving disrespect to Surefire is like saying someone's grandfather isn't good enough, or something like that. That's how I see it. But member DayofReckoning may not have factored in total sales with the comparison in post #42. I am guessing many more people are buying these other flashlights than the venerable SureFire. That, and the reality those other flashlight makers make product for the average consumer (for the most part) and are spending less money manufacturing their products. Plus they accept defective and failure rates higher than flashlights made for warfare and law enforcement where reliability in brutal conditions is paramount. Seems like that is the case, right?

The initial post of this thread does strike me as an understandable question from someone rather new to quality flashlights.
 

bykfixer

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Well it's been said "you get what you pay for". And in most cases that is true. Sometimes value comes at a cost.

One thing nobody has hit on is the cost of manufacturing in a small facility in a high cost state like California USA vs a mega factory in a low cost country.

Now on the flipside Maglite produces lights in that same state as SureFire but their prices are lower, by far. SureFire products in many cases are made to withstand rigorous abuse. Maglite are not. SureFire (arguably) inovates a lot more than Maglite... or at least more often.

Some other companies spend pennies on R&D where SureFire spends lots on R&D. Some companies just clone other companies or use their parts n pieces in a different shaped body.

There is no simple answer. But truth be told it costs a lot more to make stuff in America these days.
 

Lumen83

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I'm sending them lights that are 15 years old and they're repairing them and sending them back. Some times they're for issues that I caused such as dropping them and smashing the lens. When I hear other people's bad experiences with support, I don't necessarily doubt them but I wonder why there is such a difference between my experience and theirs. All I know is that based on my own experience, in the past year Ive sent in an lx2 for a cracked lens, two Kroma's that weren't functioning properly, and I also requested new tail caps because the rubber was wearing out on a U2 and another Kroma. All of these were granted/repaired/etc. Couldn't say anything better about the company. I feel like I own great lights for a lifetime.
 

Bullzeyebill

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This thread is going very well. Good credible posts, and no CPF Rule 3 violations, except maybe the first post. Lol.

Bill
 

DayofReckoning

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One valuable piece of advice I can give you when dealing with Surefire Customer Service.

DO NOT EMAIL!! CALL!!!!
 

the0dore3524

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One valuable piece of advice I can give you when dealing with Surefire Customer Service.

DO NOT EMAIL!! CALL!!!!

I agree very much with this. It's annoying when you have to wait to get connected with someone but well worth it. When I emailed, I'd often wait a couple weeks for a response back.
 

Dave D

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I have a G3 that was used for carrying out the check A on an aircraft and got dropped from height onto the hanger floor.

The bezel got a dink in it and the dome on the LED came loose, I'm not sure if it was during the same drop or not but the spring in the tail cap also fell out.

I contacted Surefire customer services, after receiving the advice on this forum, and they sent me a replacement metal Bezel, P60L drop-in and a new tail switch, all free of charge.

I can't imagine that there are many manufacturers out there that would replace so much of a flashlight FOC in those circumstances.

I like Surefire products and their customer service, so I'm willing to pay a bit more for that!
 

DayofReckoning

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To be fair, since Surefire and I are rarely awake at the same time, I have just used email, and the response has been quick anyway.

That's good to hear, but that's certainly the exception. My experience with their email is horrible.
 

vadimax

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And no one came to an idea that this new member just wanted to understand what the trick with those Surefires is. Exactly the same was with me. I even have a post with the same question somewhere in the beginning.

Now? Now I possess 5 Surefires :) If someone does not get the idea that does not make him evil... I guess :)
 

night.hoodie

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MikeSalt, I find your experience with the lens odd. The temperature resistant glass lens on the E1e/E2e is VERY thick and even dropping the lens should not have had the effect you described. I've never seen one cracked and I'd also find it very odd if it came that way new out of the box.

The other two things you mentioned I can likely explain. First of all, the clicky switch. The early 1st revision Surefire Z57/Z61 was a piece of crap, to put it mildly. I'm guessing you had the first revision. I had a few of these that failed as well back in the day, and that's what lead to my preference for sticking with the original Z52/Z53/Z54 twisty. I once took a first gen Z57 apart that had failed exactly as how you described (failed in the on position, but I could use it like a twisty to twist on and off the light) and sprayed the parts with breakfree CLP or some type of gun lube, I don't remember for certain this was over ten years ago. I remember having a bunch of crap out on the table, it was a lot of parts and trying to figure out how to put it back together was annoying. When I reassembled the switch it worked fine, but I never trusted it fully after that. Around 2006 or 2007 Surefire came out with a new revision of the switch that had a self contained clicky mechanism that is night and day more reliable than the original Z57. I believe most of those had a white plastic housing. They lasted for a very short time, and the only ones I ever saw were in E2e's that were being closed out in the zippered pouch from certain retailers. Then shortly after that around 2007 they released another revision of the Z57 with the self contained clicky mechanism, but in a black plastic body surrounded by a metal colander. I'm not sure if they were using different vendors, or they just made the change in color to signify the latest revision. That is the internal clicky mechanism that Surefire put on incan E series lights until they were discontinued and both of the final revisions are very reliable.

Now the lamp assembly. I'm assuming you're most likely talking about a P60 or possibly a P61. Over the years I've had VERY FEW Surefire lamps actually fail on me. In fact there's only one that distinctly comes to mind as I was working a night security shift, it was a new lamp, a P90, and after less than a minute maybe two minutes as it was acting funny, it left me in the dark until I found my backup light in a completely dark building. But, there have been a couple of others, I just can't place them. I've noticed from many hundreds of lamps that if a lamp is good it will last many hundreds of hours without even darkening even though I believe the average rated life on a lot of their tactical bulbs is around 25-30hrs. In my experience if the lamp is bad from the factory, it will fail within the first five or ten minutes. I've had more than one fail this way. If it's a normal good lamp, it will last a really long time. So, it is likely that you experienced, a bad bulb.

And from what I remember, this is years ago, but I sent in photos of the blown lamp assembly to Surefire with the stamped date code and I think they sent me a new P90 even though they don't normally warranty their lamp assemblies or batteries.

Just reading this again. Great post. Surefire tailcaps deserve their own thread. I have been thinking about... really for about three weeks now, starting a thread just for z52/z53/z54 twisty praise, opinions, benefits, drawbacks, operation methodologies and techniques, boot replacement, history... how the LF z52 differs... the double-edged sword of the popular McClicky upgrade... don't know how to begin it yet. I just am not keen on any of the z57/z61, even with a tail-standing ring. I'd rather have a z68 than z61.
 

ven

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Good idea mr hoodie, i would be very interested in seeing different tail caps, pro/cons for them from various members opinions etc etc:thumbsup:

I have just got my head around the z32 and z44 bit :laughing:
 

PapaLumen

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There's no reason. Maybe they are used to poor government negotiating resulting in the govt paying well over the odds on a large contract and it's carried over to the general public who they also supply?

Plenty of other quality manufacturers out there. They're not American though of course...
 
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