Wicked Lasers 445nm <1W Spyder III Pro Arctic Series

[Shiftlock]

Wicked isn't bringing you a good deal, they're capitalizing on a cheap laser with a cheap diode. It probably costs them $50 apiece to build (if that).

You're right when you say "if that." I bet WL is getting these diodes right from Nichia for a few bucks per. Think about the price Casio must be getting them for to sell a projector for $600 wholesale that has 24 of them. With all the other parts, manufacturing/distribution costs, advertising, etc., in order to be turning a profit, they have to be paying well under $10 each for the blue diodes. With over 50k orders for these lasers, plus stock for future orders, WL must have purchased nearly as many diodes as Casio has, if not more, so they have to be getting the same deal. And, with the cost of Chinese manufacturing, they're probably turning out the hosts for a few bucks each as well. Overall, it wouldn't surprise me if their total cost is around $20/unit, and a good part of that is probably advertising, with the large ads for the blue Arctic that they've been putting in major magazines like Popular Science and Popular Mechanics.

You're also right about how WL set their price. It isn't based on their manufacturing cost, it's based on what the market will bear. In other words, how much people are willing to pay for these lasers. When the demand at $199 was so insane that WL couldn't keep up, they raised the price to $299. It's simple supply and demand economics.

 

[photon1c]

First-there are lots of companies that sell them for cheaper. Second, it would have cost many, many thousands years ago and wicked is too clueless to have done it. Wicked learned from LPF members how to make the 445nm lasers. Wicked isn't bringing you a good deal, they're capitalizing on a cheap laser with a cheap diode. It probably costs them $50 apiece to build (if that).

I haven't seen any other sellers of 1W blue lasers at $199 or under but I am no expert. If we're allowed to post links to other sellers in this forum, I invite you to post some links.

 

[wyager]

I haven't seen any other sellers of 1W blue lasers at $199 or under but I am no expert. If we're allowed to post links to other sellers in this forum, I invite you to post some links.

Wicked is selling them for $299+shipping, I remind you... And with like 30 seconds of google searching I already found a reputable company selling them for only $239, and then there are many sellers in the US (not overseas) that sell them for $199. I won't post links here.

The wicked arctic is decidedly NOT worth the money (as we now know). It's a POS that breaks as often as it works. Better quality, smaller lasers can be had for much better prices.

 

[Shiftlock]

I haven't seen any other sellers of 1W blue lasers at $199 or under but I am no expert. If we're allowed to post links to other sellers in this forum, I invite you to post some links.

Yup, Wicked Lasers is now charging $299 for the 445nm Arctic. As Wyager mentioned above, as well as someone else back a few pages in this thread, Dragon Lasers has a 1W 445nm blue laser they call the Spartan for $239.


I haven't seen a review of this laser, but I bet it's better quality than the Arctic. Has anyone posted a review of the Dragon Lasers Spartan anywhere? I would love to see a side-by-side comparison of two lasers.

 

[photon1c]

Go back and re-read my previous post. I know WL has upped the price, as I mentioned in the post. That's not the issue. The issue is people with pending orders who paid $199. They might be persuaded to cancel their WL order and go buy another laser.. IF there was another company selling a 1W blue laser at $199 or less. Again, I'm no expert in laser pointer retailers, but I still haven't seen a link or evidence of another site selling a ~1W blue laser for $199 or less.

 

[wyager]

Go back and re-read my previous post. I know WL has upped the price, as I mentioned in the post. That's not the issue. The issue is people with pending orders who paid $199. They might be persuaded to cancel their WL order and go buy another laser.. IF there was another company selling a 1W blue laser at $199 or less. Again, I'm no expert in laser pointer retailers, but I still haven't seen a link or evidence of another site selling a ~1W blue laser for $199 or less.

I'm not posting a link here, both because of the rules and because I'd rather not draw attention to it, but I know of AT LEAST one seller who's selling them sub-$200, and if I wanted to expend the effort I could probably find more.

 

[Shiftlock]

Go back and re-read my previous post. I know WL has upped the price, as I mentioned in the post. That's not the issue. The issue is people with pending orders who paid $199. They might be persuaded to cancel their WL order and go buy another laser.. IF there was another company selling a 1W blue laser at $199 or less. Again, I'm no expert in laser pointer retailers, but I still haven't seen a link or evidence of another site selling a ~1W blue laser for $199 or less.

Assuming for a moment that there's no other company selling a 1W 445nm laser for $199 or less (which apparently there is according to wyager), the difference between $199 and $239 is relatively insignificant, especially when you factor in shipping from China. When you then consider the quality-control problems that people have been experiencing with the Arctic, anyone who is still waiting on their Arctic order would be stupid NOT to cancel it and order one from Dragon Lasers or elsewhere instead.

 

[senecaripple]

received the dragon laser 2 weeks ago, ordered it back in august. was about $275.00 shipped. have not tested it yet. still waiting for my arctic ordered back in june. crossing my fingers i'll get them.

 

[photon1c]

Can a mod chime in here? Is it appropriate to post links to other retailers of 1W blue lasers?

If not, please feel free to PM me with the seller info.

So far it went from "everyone has a sub-$199 1W blue laser" to "why don't you Google it?" to "I maybe know of one source, but I aint tellin".

PS: sounds like the DragonLasers model is $275 shipped, I think the WickedLasers original price with shipping was somewhere under $230?

What was that about a 1W laser costing $50 to build?

Edited to add:

I don't have any skin in the game. Personally, I'm going to stand by and pick up a 1W pointer in a year or two when they are cheaper. I've personally never been attracted to WickedLasers due to the pricing; I always got my high powered green lasers from DealExtreme. But in this case, it sounds like Wicked hit the sweet spot (at least originally, before they upped the price) when they came out with a 1W laser for $199. Not sure why there are so many Wicked Lasers haters here, maybe they feel like they missed the boat on the original $199 pricing. I've heard people say the Arctics got 'bad reviews from everyone' at 'the other forum' (I don't know what the other forum is.) One guy posts an ugly beam shot, but it's from an intentionally defocused laser. So there's not much here to go on.

 

[wyager]

Can a mod chime in here? Is it appropriate to post links to other retailers of 1W blue lasers?

If not, please feel free to PM me with the seller info.

So far it went from "everyone has a sub-$199 1W blue laser" to "why don't you Google it?" to "I maybe know of one source, but I aint tellin".

PS: sounds like the DragonLasers model is $275 shipped, I think the WickedLasers original price with shipping was somewhere under $230?

What was that about a 1W laser costing $50 to build?

Edited to add:

I don't have any skin in the game. Personally, I'm going to stand by and pick up a 1W pointer in a year or two when they are cheaper. I've personally never been attracted to WickedLasers due to the pricing; I always got my high powered green lasers from DealExtreme. But in this case, it sounds like Wicked hit the sweet spot (at least originally, before they upped the price) when they came out with a 1W laser for $199. Not sure why there are so many Wicked Lasers haters here, maybe they feel like they missed the boat on the original $199 pricing. I've heard people say the Arctics got 'bad reviews from everyone' at 'the other forum' (I don't know what the other forum is.) One guy posts an ugly beam shot, but it's from an intentionally defocused laser. So there's not much here to go on.

PM sent. Also, people hate wicked because the lasers break. Go read the horror stories at laserpointerforums.

 

[elugelab]

0-like has a 1W 445nm blue laser for $189.99

 

[wyager]

0-like has a 1W 445nm blue laser for $189.99

I sent him that link

 

[Athoul]

Having questioned Wicked about the claims of lasers breaking etc, I have checked into this and was provided with the statistics indicating that less then 1% of the thousands of Arctics sold have had been RMA'd. Print out of database for items shipped vs items RMA'd.

Having recieved both a G1 and G2 (both in review process) I don't see any issues with the build quality. I have not yet metered the output so can't say anthing on that at the moment.

As many of the members on LPF are also sellers of lasers, I question some of the information that is represented there (my opinion only). The only real issues I can see are the long wait times due to mass ordering from the unexpected media that the Arctic received. Some have issues, but according to the database info, it is less then 1%, that's not bad at all.

 

[wyager]

Having questioned Wicked about the claims of lasers breaking etc, I have checked into this and was provided with the statistics indicating that less then 1% of the thousands of Arctics sold have had been RMA'd. Print out of database for items shipped vs items RMA'd.

Having recieved both a G1 and G2 (both in review process) I don't see any issues with the build quality. I have not yet metered the output so can't say anthing on that at the moment.

As many of the members on LPF are also sellers of lasers, I question some of the information that is represented there (my opinion only). The only real issues I can see are the long wait times due to mass ordering from the unexpected media that the Arctic received. Some have issues, but according to the database info, it is less then 1%, that's not bad at all.

Who gave you these stats? Wicked? Of course according to them these lasers work fine. They lied about plenty of other stuff... let's see-shipping cost, output power, lens quality, shipping time (like SIX TIMES), and you don't know the half of how the owner of wicked lied to the vets at LPF...

 

[Athoul]

Who gave you these stats? Wicked? Of course according to them these lasers work fine. They lied about plenty of other stuff... let's see-shipping cost, output power, lens quality, shipping time (like SIX TIMES), and you don't know the half of how the owner of wicked lied to the vets at LPF...

I have access to the database info itself, not just something I was "told" by someone at Wicked. I know more then you may think, and have been around before LPF even existed. You seem disgruntled and bent on making Wicked look bad. I'm just offering some information stating that while there were/are some issues with the Arctics, it's certianly not representative of the majority. Those that have issues voice louder then those who do not, so of course you will hear about a bad unit.

 

[wyager]

I have access to the database info itself, not just something I was "told" by someone at Wicked. I know more then you may think, and have been around before LPF even existed. You seem disgruntled and bent on making Wicked look bad. I'm just offering some information stating that while there were/are some issues with the Arctics, it's certianly not representative of the majority. Those that have issues voice louder then those who do not, so of course you will hear about a bad unit.

And did you hack your way to this database? If not, chances are either the data is tampered with or you are in a position where it would be in your advantage to mess with the data. I'm not disgruntled, as wicked has never done anything to me personally. And I DO want to make wicked look bad, as they are a bad company that will scam their customers. I already showed you some reasons. Also, wicked also has absolutely no regard for the continued existence of the laser hobby in general. They marketed this laser as a weapon, that's undeniable. You seem pretty bent on supporting wicked in the face of evidence... with your access to their "database"...

I suppose if you want to, you can support wicked all you want, but MY personal advice is to buy from a company that has a better reputation if you want a 445nm laser...

 

[Athoul]

The data was not tampered with, it's automatically entered. I have no way to alter it and it would take way to long and completely screw up the system for wicked to alter it. The reason I checked was so I could in good faith respond to your claims, nothing more. The fact is though that of the thousands sold, 5-10 people posting issues is not indicative of the majority.

You are zealously promoting Wicked to be bad, but have not had any personal dealings with them. If you delt with them then you could say they are good or bad from personal experience. Otherwise it is as if I were to say all Subaru's are bad because a few people have had bad experiences with them, even though I never ownded a Subaru for myself. I've had quite a few products from Wicked and only had an issue with one, which was replaced without much trouble. I'm not saying some people did not have issues with the Arctic or didn't recieve a bad unit, just that it is not the majoriy based on numbers I am seeing.

Also some of the so called vets and many of the members at LPF are also sellers of lasers, or sellers of DIY kits. Thus there is a level of bias inherent in the information presented (not in all cases of course).

I would advise taking what you read with a grain of salt in many cases, and this is universal you can apply it to even what I am writing if you like. The best way to see if a company is good or bad is to deal with them yourself, that way you have actual experience to back up your claims. I wonder, if you did order a laser from them and it turned out to be a good unit, would you think differently about them? Just saying.

 

[wyager]

5-10 people ON LPF said that the lasers were bad. They make up an incredibly small percentage of the buyers. And those aren't even the people who probably just returned the broken laser. And sure, the people on LPF might have a bias but I can tell you from an engineering standpoint that the driver used in the arctic is absolute cr@p. That's why they break. That doesn't really have anything to do with bias...
And I have a real hard time believing your "database" spiel. Either you work for wicked, this is public info offered by wicked, this is unreliable self-collected info, or you hacked their RMA database. Which is it?


Also, I have no problem with wicked's other lasers... however, I have lost respect for them as a company after they peddle a crappy $300+ laser to noobs who know no better, and damage the hobby in the process. I don't need personal experience with the company to develop an opinion, I just base it on all the lies and deceit from wicked.

 

[Shiftlock]

You are zealously promoting Wicked to be bad, but have not had any personal dealings with them. If you delt with them then you could say they are good or bad from personal experience.

Wicked Lasers has a long history of what many would call shady business practices, going back to the very beginning when Chris Tao operated the company from his college dormitory in Storrs, Connecticut, before he fled to China to avoid legal trouble. Granted, the company has come a very long way since then, but it's hard to shed a bad reputation.

Can you be more specific about what kind of data you have showing a return rate of less than 1% on Arctics? You said it's a "printout of database", but I don't know how to interpret that. Is it an image of a printout that was emailed to you, or something?

Another thing to consider is that many people have just received these lasers. Many of the people who have received them, haven't used them much yet. Even a lot of people with units that have failed probably haven't gotten around to RMA'ing them yet. Also, a good number of people probably won't even bother with return shipping to China for a broken laser at this price point. All of this considered, at this point I would expect the number of returns to be WAY, WAY under 1%. Very close to naught, in fact. I wonder what it will be like six months or a year from now.

 

[Athoul]

the people on LPF might have a bias but I can tell you from an engineering standpoint that the driver used in the arctic is absolute cr@p. That's why they break. That doesn't really have anything to do with bias...

I am an engineer, though I have not personally disected one of these. Is this standpoint based on your own inspection or hearsay from someone else? Hopefully there are at least detailed pictures indicating this. The driver in their DPSS (532/473nm) Spyder III's was actually pretty good. You are right though you can have an opinion, but you are taking it further to an almost obsessive level. If you had a personal bad experience with them then what could I say, you would be justifiably upset, but without one I guess I don't understand why you have such a strong viewpoint which seems beyond just an opinion. I'm not trying to argue with you, just saying it seems a bit over the top. I can only speak for myself in that I've not had a bad experience with them ever.

I have two units G1 and G2 that I am reviewing currently (not finished), but other then a lack of AR coated lens, I see no aparent problem with the laser at this point...either of them. I have issues with the stock battery, but it has nothing to do with the device itself. Output can't be tested until the weekend due to my LPM on loan, but if I were to guess I'd say it's at least over 800mW based on experience. Offhand my G1 seems higher output then my G2... many possible factors though and I could be wrong.

As to the data, this was made available to me upon my request. It only indicates that a small fraction under 1% of orders were RMA'd. Shiftlock you are correct in that people are just receiving their lasers, the info is current; I have no idea what the percentage will be in six months honestly.