WS2812 Hookup help

[EricB]

For the 12 years I've been in the forum, I was always inquiring about the idea of controllable RGB LED strings for Christmas lighting, and now controllable strings are pretty common, but most are not really commercial yet.
What I had taken notice of was the ones basically replacing neon tubes in store windows (Actually three-LED module "chain letter" backlighting strings that have been common for awhile, but now being used to line windows). When more "smart" strings (individually addressable modules) started appearing I noticed the little controllers they used with the buttons, and began looking into them. When I found a single module 50 pc string I wanted for my windows, and determined it was for a 2812 controller, I ordered two and the controller.

The controller is this common one with an SD card https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LHTJHZM/?tag=cpf0b6-20 and the had to figure the right power supply/transformer for it. I got a 12v 48w (the lights need at least 25w, and so I wanted to get more than 25w, which is the next lowest common power). It has the connector with the red and black wires. From what I've seen, the red is the power, and the black is the ground. The controller is clearly marked as to which is which.

A big problem was the connectors from the lights to the controller. the lights use a 3 pin "JST" connector, which I find is extremely rare (most are four pins). They have them on Amazon, but we're trying to get this up by the end of the week, so I didn't want to order (I might do that later, but I'm trying to see if it works now). I find one store that has 3 pin CPU fan power extension cables (wire colors are red, yellow, black). It appears that the male of the lights go into the female of the cable, which goes into the controller. The male connector of the cable slips off, so that I could stick the wires into the controller. The connectors of the lights and cable are slotted differently, but the wires are spaced the same as the holes, so I can force it, and the pins will appear to make contact, and I have to hold it in.
I use this diagram of one hooked up (http://www.lightingnext.com/sd-card-rgb-led-controller.html notice, both power wires on the left are black) to try to figure which cable goes into which slot on the right. This is using red, green and blue. So I try to rematch the colors from the lights to the controller. The red on the lights feeds into the black of the cable. Green feeds into yellow and white feeds into red.

So I hook it up, and nothing at all happens. Not even power lights on the controller. I don't want to try switching stuff around, to not mess something up, especially the LED's.

So does anyone know about this, and what is going wrong?

 

[Genes]

If the controller doesn't light up then you most likely have a supply problem feeding the controller. Check the voltage at the input to the controller and make sure that it is within the range specified and that it is "DC" not "AC". If the input voltage checks out OK, then connect a single string to the output of the controller and see if you get it to work.

 

[EricB]

OK, I since found that the controller does not supply power. So I had to get a separate 5V wall transformer to hook to the lights. The proper schematic is supposed to be this: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1CbHNJVXXXXbaXpXXq6xXFXXXj/109417280/HTB1CbHNJVXXXXbaXpXXq6xXFXXXj.jpg except that this one uses one 5V power supply for everything. So my hookup is like this, except for having the 12V running to the controller 12V port (and the associated GND), and the 5V running to the lights and the other GND port to the right, which also connects to the lights; and the green running from the lights to the DAT port. (It seems it would have been better to get the one big 5V unit like in the picture, to power both).
Still not able to get it to work. The most I got was the first light on the string to flicker red on one try, and that has been it. Sometimes the controller lights up, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[CuriousOne]

I've also ordered 5 meter ws2812b led strip (150 leds total) and simpler controller from amazon, let you know, how it will work.

 

[EricB]

Update, playing around with it, I could get either the indicator lights on the controller to come on, OR a handful of LED's, which would stay one fixed color. LAst few tries, nothing.

So now, I've contacted the Amazon seller of the controller, and he referred me to someone else, and the person says I'm not supposed to mix 5V and 12V. If the LED's are 5V, then the power supplied to the controller should be 5V as well. He said the controller does not take up any more amps, so the 5V 10A I have hooked up to the LED's should power the whole thing. He thinks I may have burned the LED's out with the 12V, and claimed the voltage does go through the controller to the LED's. Though I've only had the LED power wire (red) hooked up to the 5V and the only GND and DAT hooked to the controller. When I told him this, then he wasn't sure. (Does the 12V come back out through the GND or something?)

 

[Lithopsian]

Might want to see if the controller works first. Maybe even try it with the new 5V supply since I'm not 100% sure what the variable input is for. See if it lights up OK. If not then it might be duff or fried. Then maybe see if it works with 12V power. So if the controller power light comes on, you need to hook the data line to your data input and the two power lines from the power supply to the other two inputs. Using the GND from the controller with the +5V from the power supply might not work, although I've seen hookups where it is also connected. Using the controller GND running from a 12V input with the +5V power supply sounds like a recipe for disaster and I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[EricB]

OK, how exactly should the GND be hooked up, then? I see diagrams or pictures with it hooked up to all four points (LED's, power supply, and both GND ports on the controller), and some where the power supply connects only to one GND, while the LED's connect to the other.

 

[Lithopsian]

OK, how exactly should the GND be hooked up, then? I see diagrams or pictures with it hooked up to all four points (LED's, power supply, and both GND ports on the controller), and some where the power supply connects only to one GND, while the LED's connect to the other.

Hook the LEDs to +5V and GND from the same power supply. Hook the controller to whatever power supply you use for it. The instructions are quite explicit that you need to connect the signal GND from the controller to the LEDs, but that makes me nervous when you are using a different power supply. The one thing that I think would just be wrong is using two different power supplies and *not* connecting the LED power supply GND to the LEDs. The controller shouldn't need that massive 12V power supply, it hardly uses any power and can run from the same 5V supply as the LEDs so I'd try that first. Do you have a program on the card? Lights won't do much without it, maybe flash briefly.

 

[EricB]

I took the 12V out of it, and only using the one 5V now. Still, it's the wall adapter version.

By "signal" GND, do you mean the GND port on the right side (next to DAT? There are two GND ports, and the other one is next to the power input. Some images, they have all the ground hooked up together).

 

[Lithopsian]

With one power supply, effectively they'll all be connected together. GND next to 5V is connected directly to whatever power supply you're using. GND next to DAT is connected to the LED GND. I don't know what is going on inside the box, but probably these are already tied together. Now I connect the power supply GND directly to the LED GND, so now all the GNDs are connected together. Now your LEDs should be ready for a program. Does the controller power or error light come on?

 

[EricB]

I hooked it up like this now (with the wire connecting the two GND ports, and the power supply and LED wires in the associated ports), but nothing. I did once see both of the controller lights come on, but haven't since that second post. It's like the whole thing is completely dead. I don't know why it would be "fried". I was trying the 12V before, but it has a port for that (7.5-24), and so that should not have damaged it. I never smelled anything burned either.
I haven't bothered with the program yet, figuring I'd do that once I got the hookup correct.

 

[EricB]

Tried again, to make sure the power supply was alive (it has an LED indicator), and hooking it to the consist, I got a very brief flicker from it looked like the whole string! Still, neither of the lights on the controller, though. Now some are saying it doesn't work without a program on the card, so could that be it? Wouldn't the controller lights still come on (like they once did)?

 

[Lithopsian]

The controller power light should come on, and usually the error light would come on if there is no program. I don't have this exact controller, but the error light should flash if there is no program file at all (or no card) but may not if there is a program that does not have valid instructions to turn your lights on. No program on the card means the lights will not turn on, except maybe a brief flash like you see. Worrying to have no lights. The LEDs might flash just from connecting power and the controller may be dead. Still worth trying a program.

 

[EricB]

OK; I just tried again, and nothing, no controller error or power light either. But when I took the [blank; never programmed] SD card out, then some sections of about 4 or so lights on both strings came on (green, cyan and a couple yellow, static).
So obviously, this has something to do with the controller. Is is simply lack of program, or (since not even the error light comes on), is the controller bad (and again, I don't see why it should be).

Edit: just put the SD card back in, and now another group of clusters of static lights (most blue now).

 

[EricB]

Update, I decided to replace the clear house plug wire that I got from one hardware store. I now used a thinner wire with a solid copper strand, so it would fit in the GND ports with the other connecting wires.

Now it looks like the controller is working right; only the power light stays on (the error light flashes when I press a button). If I have the card out, then the error light keeps flashing. So it's apparently recognizing a correct hookup.
So now I'm looking into the program. Becoming familiar with the LED Edit (2013, which is the one the manual said to use) software, I chose 6803 controller, which is what the manual says. I followed the instructions and exported the .led file to the SD card (reformatted as FAT), with a simple pattern I chose. I took it out of the folder, as I saw people instruct.

So now I'm wondering if this is the chip issue; that it can't handle 2812. Again, I see people use it with 2812, but it seems like there are several sub-models of this controller, that look all completely identical. The manual did say something about not being compatible with any WS28__ but then I see everyone using them with it, and sites selling the controller mention 2811.

 

[CuriousOne]

I ordered simple controller, with wireless remote, it works just fine with led. Connected to strip and 5v supply, all ok.

 

[EricB]

You mean the SZMiniLED (Which is the most common one I see in the store window lights, which is silver-grey with the four black buttons and 4 digit 7-part LED display)?
If so, I guess that's what I should have just gotten, but I thought the SD card would be better to have (and there's a version of that one with an SD card too). I may order it, but before I spend even more money, I want to see if I can get this one to work.

 

[EricB]

Finally, SUCCESS! I found a simple 5V 2812 controller at Tinkersphere (where I had already been going to get controllers and connectors, but didn't think to see if they had controllers, but at that point, I wasn't going to buy a new one anyway, still trying to get the TS1000 to work. Figuring I needed to give up on this one, and see if I could exchange it for one that could handle 2812's, since the one I got was apparently 6803 only; I began eyeing the HC008, which is similar, and the one used in all the stores with smart strings in their windows, but there's only one week left until Christmas, so I decided to ask Tinkersphere, and they had this other one).

It's so unbelievably simple. No splicing and screwing port shutters with wires coming out easily; just plug one end to the round connector to the power supply, and the other end is a 3 pin JST connector to the lights. DUH!
However, I was yet horrified to find that the JST connector on this controller was male, and the end of the LED string I was using was also male, to fit the female connector to the controller and power supply. That's what I thought I saw in all the pictures and videos. So being desperate, I figured I might as well then try the female end of the strings, and voila; it worked.

So I've had them backwards the whole time? I feel lucky this didn't damage the lights, as I've always heard running LEDs backwards is not good for them. (On the way home, I felt it was too good to be true that this little controller would be the solution, with the fear that the lights may have been damaged in the earlier bad hookups). Yet some of them were lighting, in all the tries with the TS1000.

I also had planned to split the two strings between two windows with a wire connecting them, but at $3 per foot, I ran out of money. Found another store that has it for 75¢/ft. and may get it tomorrow. So I have one string filling a window, and the other still connected, and (as excess) draped over something else in the room.
Still, If I got a 10A power supply, for 6A to cover 100 .06A LED's; if I take off the excess string, leaving 50 LED's, will 10A be too much for them? Or is more supply current OK, and just the voltage that can't be too high (and the current is only a problem for the power supply if the LED's draw more than it is capable of?)

 

[Lithopsian]

There are constant voltage power supplies and constant current. You almost certainly have a constant voltage, but it is as well to be sure. A constant current driver will push up (or down) the voltage until it gives the rated current, which could be damaging.

Assuming you have a constant voltage power supply, then the strip will draw only the current it needs. 10A is just the maximum it can supply. Try to get more and the voltage may drop until the current is within bounds or it may cut out completely. Worst case with a cheap imported driver it may overheat and damage itself or something else. The usual rule of thumb is also not to ask for more than 80% of the maximum rated current for continuous running, just for safety and to avoid overheating.

 

[EricB]

OK, thank you very much.

I also wonder if there's any danger of having pixels with bare solder metal (for each of the three wires) in the rear in a metal window, and then if they can create sparks if the backs of the pixels touch that or each other (I didn't know they were like this when I ordered them. And I saw someone somewhere say 10A was enough to start a fire, though that may have been with 12V).