Armytek Wizard Pro Prototype Long-Term Testing

[bradthebold]

bradthebold, those numbers are very similar to what I found, although it took longer with a 70F ambient.

Question for owners:
I have had a few complete lockups happen. Everything is tight, it just does nothing when the button is pressed, not even the red button LED. Recovery is to loosen the tailcap for 15 seconds or so.
Has anyone else that owns one seen this?
I'm thinking this is a problem with just mine, and Armytek have already suggested to replace it (the lens has coating imperfections too), just waiting on instructions.
Edit: Just reading back now, lots of posts. I also measure around 840 lumens OTF on turbo. Sound about right since Armytek claim 1060 ish emitter lumens.
Edit2: OK, reading back I see others are having the lockup issue too. Unscrewing the tailcap, tap the button, and tighten and it's going again. I was really hoping this was just me.
Here's a pic of the other problem I have with the lens:
http://s20.postimg.org/xjju0nah9/Wizard_Pro_Lens.jpg

Yeah, I have the same lockout issue too. I've been emailing them back and forth, but it's been 4 days since the last response. That is a weird lens problem too. I would definitely get that replaced.

 

[cronus]

Thanks Brad. I do hope they respond with a method of returning. I also hope they have an answer/solution for the lockup issue. I'm really surprised a systemic issue like that could slip by and into production. Surprised to the point of believing they knew about it before release, but no way to prove that.

 

[ArcticHighlander]

bradthebold, those numbers are very similar to what I found, although it took longer with a 70F ambient.

Question for owners:
I have had a few complete lockups happen. Everything is tight, it just does nothing when the button is pressed, not even the red button LED. Recovery is to loosen the tailcap for 15 seconds or so.
Has anyone else that owns one seen this?
I'm thinking this is a problem with just mine, and Armytek have already suggested to replace it (the lens has coating imperfections too), just waiting on instructions.
Edit: Just reading back now, lots of posts. I also measure around 840 lumens OTF on turbo. Sound about right since Armytek claim 1060 ish emitter lumens.
Edit2: OK, reading back I see others are having the lockup issue too. Unscrewing the tailcap, tap the button, and tighten and it's going again. I was really hoping this was just me.
Here's a pic of the other problem I have with the lens:
http://s20.postimg.org/xjju0nah9/Wizard_Pro_Lens.jpg

Mine has coating imperfections on the lens similar to yours. It occurs over about a quarter of the lens surface. I'm not sure about lock out or cut off temp as I haven't really played with it yet other than to make sure it turns on and charge the battery. I'm going to have to go back to the instructions at the beginning of the thread and review them. I have tried to set the battery type but haven't had luck getting to the menu. The button is very hard to press (a real pain in the ***) and maybe I'm having difficulty pressing it rapidly enough after cycling and shut off to get it to go to menu (per written instructions).

 

[cronus]

The button is a bit firm, but hasn't been a problem for me so far.
Too bad about the lens, and troubling to know it is not just mine. Seems like they may have rushed the release of this light, and I may have rushed the purchase.
I was hoping for performance like that in the OP regarding thermal handling, and was surprised to find the stepdown in there. That alone is not a dealbreaker for me, but the lockup and lens should be fixed.
I cannot reproduce the lockup now, it happened a lot in fast strobe before (in FStrobe, wait about 10s and turn off, wait another 4-5 and try to turn back on).
Someone suggested to use a protected cell and select it from the config menu of the light. Before trying that, I wanted to reproduce the lockup, but I can't seem to get it to lockup up right now. I could get locked up it in a couple of minutes before...
Edit: It just locked up. Now I'll reprogram it for protected and retry.

 

[Trevtrain]

I can make mine lockup too

Question for owners:
I have had a few complete lockups happen. Everything is tight, it just does nothing when the button is pressed, not even the red button LED. Recovery is to loosen the tailcap for 15 seconds or so.
Has anyone else that owns one seen this?
I'm thinking this is a problem with just mine, and Armytek have already suggested to replace it (the lens has coating imperfections too), just waiting on instructions.

Edit2: OK, reading back I see others are having the lockup issue too. Unscrewing the tailcap, tap the button, and tighten and it's going again. I was really hoping this was just me.

Now that I know how to reproduce the problem courtesy of your post elsewhere, mine locks up too.
Not always, and only after running in fast strobe for a short period of time as you mentioned. Never stumbled onto it before but I seem to be able to make it lockup pretty regularly now.
Interesing.....

I had a similar problem with a Fenix MC11 last year. I reported it in this thread http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?338001-Strange-Fenix-MC11-problem
I found that when I unscrewed the tailcap with the light switched on, I couldn't get it to start again until I unscrewed the cap and held the button down to "discharge" the circuit.
The dealer in question replaced it with another unit that behaved exactly the same. After a long and frustrating exchange of ambiguous emails, I finally had that light refunded and bought an identical replacement from a local dealer. This replacement worked fine.

I don't know if I'd call this lockup a deal-breaker for me but it would be pretty annoying for anyone regularly using strobe mode. Coupled with the temperature/indicator issues it's starting to create the impression of a lack of attention to detail and insufficient testing before release of the production model.

I guess the question to ask now is has anyone had the lockup issue without using fast strobe immediately before switching it off?

EDIT: I've just made it happen in slow strobe. Can't make it happen in voltage indicator mode (yet).

 

[cronus]

Re: I can make mine lockup too

Well, that proposed fix of using protected cells and programming the light for protected failed on the second attempt. :(

 

[ArcticHighlander]

The button is a bit firm, but hasn't been a problem for me so far.
Too bad about the lens, and troubling to know it is not just mine. Seems like they may have rushed the release of this light, and I may have rushed the purchase.
I was hoping for performance like that in the OP regarding thermal handling, and was surprised to find the stepdown in there. That alone is not a dealbreaker for me, but the lockup and lens should be fixed.

I'm feeling the same, that I shouldn't have rushed into it. I probably should have waited until it was out for a year and seen what sort of bugs it had and which, if any, had been fixed and how well Armytek handled problems.

I did manage to get the unprotected battery mode selected but wound up with a sore forefinger (I'm a lefty) and shaky hand. Switched to my right hand and used my thumb to finish up and to turn off the state indicator. I'm very disappointed in the ergonomics compared with my h600. The button on the h600 is perfect; recessed and firm enough to prevent accidental turn on. The Armytek is not recessed and perhaps because of that they made it way too hard to press; painful, at least when first getting it set up and having to press it a lot. (Possibly mine is stiffer than some others?).

Also, out of the box the light is extremely hard to turn in its rubber holder and is pretty much unusable as a headlamp. Even when not in the headband (which I haven't attached yet) the rubber holder distorts and bends well before the light turns so I'm sure the elastic headband would just twist and not allow the light to turn unless holding the light to your head with one hand and using the other to rotate the light. Not good if you only have one hand free. Per others I did order some grease to try to make it easier to turn. I bought one of the cheaper ones listed on CF grease and lube thread as highly rated by users for rubber and silicon gaskets (Super Lube synthetic grease, about $7 on Amazon). Still need to try it out. The h600 on the other hand is easy to rotate with one hand out of the box, yet is held in place well enough that it will not shift or rotate in its holder from any shaking or jostling.

Directly comparing the size, the Armytek is noticeably larger. It is also very noticeably heavier. Using the battery that came with the Armytek for both lights the Armytek weighed 121 grams in its holder, 142 grams with its headband and 155 with the top band as well. The h600 with battery, holder and headband weighed only 105 grams.

In my opinion the only ergonomic advantage that the Armytek has is the inclusion of a top band which the h600 does not. The h600 holder does have a slot for a top band but you have to find something after market or make one yourself. Most people say that a top band isn't needed on the h600 because it is pretty stable but some runners feel it helps and I personally like the idea of the option of a top strap for extra stability. I might try using the one from the Armytek on the h600.

I also prefer the light changing modes on the h600 which seem much simpler, but it may just be what I'm used to; from this thread it seems more a matter of personal taste and how you intend to use the light. But as hard to push as the button is I think it likely I would just choose one setting and never mess with it again. For me, the ergonomics of the h600 make it a far more usable light.

 

[ArcticHighlander]

Here are my test results at 82°F ambient temperature. Measurements at the center of the top of the head and the center of the tube:

0m - 82°F head, 82°F tube
1m - 101°F head, 88°F tube
2m - 111°F head, 97°F tube
3m - 116°F head, 102°F tube
4m - 125°F head, 104°F tube
4m30s - 132°F head, 110°F tube at stepdown
Max - 136°F head, 117°F tube, center of battery 106°F


So the max temps I were able to measure were 58°C for the head, 47°C for the tube, and 41°C for the battery. My temp measurements seem consistent with Knight_Lights. Mine was probably in a hotter room though. So it must be hitting 65°C on the circuitry inside and stepping down. Knight_Lights got 23°C hotter at the head without triggering protection, for a total of 81°C without triggering the 80°C internal temp critical threshold. His must have been at least 85°C on the inside, probably higher, and still didn't stepdown.

With my test, the light steps down before hitting 60°C anywhere on the exterior of the light.

I'm not sure what position your light was in. I tested mine based on yours with the light as it came in the rubber holder with the holder sitting flat, horizontally, similar to how it would be placed wearing it in the head band. I used the same center, top of head and center of the tube measurements with ambient temperature of 73 degrees F:

0m - 73°F head, 73°F tube, 73F battery
1m - 92°F head, 84°F tube
2m - 101°F head, 92°F tube
3m - 108°F head, 101°F tube
4m - 117°F head, 113°F tube
5m2s - 121°F head, 116°F tube at stepdown
Max - 129°F head, 124°F tube, center of battery 110°F


This is 54C max for head, 51C max for tube and 43C max for the battery. Similar results to yours. After step down it was cycling periodically between the two outputs. I obtained the maximum values by monitoring the temperatures during cycling and at one peak temperature quickly pulled and measured the temperature of the battery. (I used the battery that came with the light after charging it much earlier in the day up to 4.2v).

 

[Trevtrain]

Question for owners:
I have had a few complete lockups happen. Everything is tight, it just does nothing when the button is pressed, not even the red button LED. Recovery is to loosen the tailcap for 15 seconds or so.
Has anyone else that owns one seen this?
...Unscrewing the tailcap, tap the button, and tighten and it's going again. I was really hoping this was just me.

OK, I'm now convinced you've jinxed me cronus. :ohgeez:

Before today I never saw any sign of a lockup.
I reproduced it first in the strobe modes - took a number of tries but happened enough to prove the fault.

Since then it has locked up 3 times under normal use. Did you help me to break it. :D

 

[petr9999]

I think i know what happened here...

Zebralight is sopposed to come out with the h602 anyday now, so armytek rushed the final version so they can sell as many flashlights as possible before zebralight takes the market yet again?

seems quite plausible

 

[Beacon of Light]

Re: I can make mine lockup too

I notice the lockup issues I have had were always when trying to use the voltage indicator which is right after the strobe indicator.

I think I may have found another shortcoming that is of the most concern for me. Is there a way to go from Firefly 1 to firefly 2 and back? In a Zebralight I can toggle the high and low in each mode it is in. Considering I only use the low modes if this cannot be done I think I will finally have to return this as I will have no use for it considering the many trade-offs and glitches mentioned by myself and others.

Has anyone successfully returned one of these and if so did they cover return shipping?

 

[Beacon of Light]

I don't have a H600 (waiting for the H602, hopefully soon) but all your perceptions about the Armytek I agree with 100%. Button is way too hard to press and not as ergonomic as the other Zebralights that I do own (H50/H50-B/H30w/H502x2/H31/H51F/H51). I found it odd someone in here (was you you knight-light?) that actually preferred the Armytek switch to the Zebralight. I see no way in the world this can be honestly seen as an improvement over what I perceive as perfect from Zebralight. It is a recessed and soft click button which is ergonomically located in a logical place. The Armytek is awkward and way too stiff to press.

I did slather silicone grease on the inside of the rubber holder and even in the groove of the light itself and it does help, but I still prefer the Zebralight glow in the dark holder as I have never needed to lube it with anything and the lights turn in it effortlessly without being too loose.

I also prefer the modes on the ZL and they just make sense. To change modes on the fly with Armytek requires holding down the stiff button. Only problem is if you are in a higher lumen mode and want to go lower, the easiest way is to turn light off and then back on which is not very smart. I can do all this mode cycling on ZLs without ever turning the light off.

To me this wasn't well thought out, or maybe not as well implemented as it should have been.

I'm feeling the same, that I shouldn't have rushed into it. I probably should have waited until it was out for a year and seen what sort of bugs it had and which, if any, had been fixed and how well Armytek handled problems.

I did manage to get the unprotected battery mode selected but wound up with a sore forefinger (I'm a lefty) and shaky hand. Switched to my right hand and used my thumb to finish up and to turn off the state indicator. I'm very disappointed in the ergonomics compared with my h600. The button on the h600 is perfect; recessed and firm enough to prevent accidental turn on. The Armytek is not recessed and perhaps because of that they made it way too hard to press; painful, at least when first getting it set up and having to press it a lot. (Possibly mine is stiffer than some others?).

Also, out of the box the light is extremely hard to turn in its rubber holder and is pretty much unusable as a headlamp. Even when not in the headband (which I haven't attached yet) the rubber holder distorts and bends well before the light turns so I'm sure the elastic headband would just twist and not allow the light to turn unless holding the light to your head with one hand and using the other to rotate the light. Not good if you only have one hand free. Per others I did order some grease to try to make it easier to turn. I bought one of the cheaper ones listed on CF grease and lube thread as highly rated by users for rubber and silicon gaskets (Super Lube synthetic grease, about $7 on Amazon). Still need to try it out. The h600 on the other hand is easy to rotate with one hand out of the box, yet is held in place well enough that it will not shift or rotate in its holder from any shaking or jostling.

Directly comparing the size, the Armytek is noticeably larger. It is also very noticeably heavier. Using the battery that came with the Armytek for both lights the Armytek weighed 121 grams in its holder, 142 grams with its headband and 155 with the top band as well. The h600 with battery, holder and headband weighed only 105 grams.

In my opinion the only ergonomic advantage that the Armytek has is the inclusion of a top band which the h600 does not. The h600 holder does have a slot for a top band but you have to find something after market or make one yourself. Most people say that a top band isn't needed on the h600 because it is pretty stable but some runners feel it helps and I personally like the idea of the option of a top strap for extra stability. I might try using the one from the Armytek on the h600.

I also prefer the light changing modes on the h600 which seem much simpler, but it may just be what I'm used to; from this thread it seems more a matter of personal taste and how you intend to use the light. But as hard to push as the button is I think it likely I would just choose one setting and never mess with it again. For me, the ergonomics of the h600 make it a far more usable light.

 

[Trevtrain]

....Button is way too hard to press and not as ergonomic as the other Zebralights that I do own (H50/H50-B/H30w/H502x2/H31/H51F/H51). I found it odd someone in here (was you you knight-light?) that actually preferred the Armytek switch to the Zebralight. I see no way in the world this can be honestly seen as an improvement over what I perceive as perfect from Zebralight. It is a recessed and soft click button which is ergonomically located in a logical place. The Armytek is awkward and way too stiff to press.

I have to admit that I'm another who actually likes that the Armytek switch is firm. It wouldn't suit someone who is arthritic perhaps but I feel that both the placement and feel suits me. Obviously we all have our own preferences.
Other than when "playing with a new toy" I doubt that I will be changing levels frequently so it's not like I expect to be constantly having to use the switch anyway.

I did slather silicone grease on the inside of the rubber holder and even in the groove of the light itself and it does help, but I still prefer the Zebralight glow in the dark holder as I have never needed to lube it with anything and the lights turn in it effortlessly without being too loose.

Again, I guess it's personal preference. The holder is definitely firm but I don't expect to be altering it often. I'd rather it wasn't too effortless.

....To change modes on the fly with Armytek requires holding down the stiff button. Only problem is if you are in a higher lumen mode and want to go lower, the easiest way is to turn light off and then back on which is not very smart.....

Yes, you have to hold the button to change modes and doing so will cycle you through any of the four main levels. This will be the most commonly used set of levels for the majority of users.
The only time you need to turn it off and on is to access the Firefly modes or swap between the two Firefly levels. I doubt too may people will make exclusive use of the Firefly modes the way you seem to.
Having said that, the ZL UI is exceptionally good and it would be nice to be able to toggle between F1 and F2 on the Wizard.

To me this wasn't well thought out, or maybe not as well implemented as it should have been.

Having followed the development of this light in other threads, I think you are wrong about it not being well thought out. There was a lot of discussion leading up to the release and Armytek was very receptive to ideas and suggestions. They also seem to have acted on the results of testing of the pre-production units by end-users. This is not a practice I've seen any of the other big players (including ZL) engaging in.

I guess we can all find areas for improvements or changes that suit us, but those changes may spoil the appeal of the light for someone else.

I certainly agree that they seem to have made some last-minute changes to the production versions without proper checking. Not recalibrating the temperature indicator after lowering the thermal stepdown point is a bit of a sloppy mistake.
The fact that we are experiencing random lockups is a lot less acceptable.

 

[Beacon of Light]

I certainly agree that they seem to have made some last-minute changes to the production versions without proper checking. Not recalibrating the temperature indicator after lowering the thermal stepdown point is a bit of a sloppy mistake.
The fact that we are experiencing random lockups is a lot less acceptable.

The random lockups is more than just a sloppy mistake, it is an out and out defect. I will be returning mine ASAP.

 

[RedForest UK]

I genuinely do like the switch placement and 'stiffness', it seems more ergonomic when mounted on the headband. I also like that it's quite hard to rotate in the headband.

I also can't replicate the 'lock-up' after quite a few tries on both strobe and voltage indicator, so I don't think that it affects every model.

Yes, I am still disappointed about them forgetting to re-calibrate the colour LED temperature indicators. But that is my only real gripe with what is otherwise a fantastic light imo.

 

[Beacon of Light]

Just curious how you have the light orientated is the switch on the top or bottom when in the rubber holder? I have tried it both ways and I am always expecting the switch to be on the end and not on the tube itself. Even retraining myself to use the button on the bottom, it is awkward.

Not sure how anyone would prefer the stiff and hard button on the Armytek. Are the people that like them not familiar with the ones on Zebralights? To me the Zebralights are the best of the best, and I am disappointed only Zebralight has switches like this, as I wish ALL lights had this type of soft switch. I fail to see if people that have and use a Zebralight switch would prefer the Armytek one. I fail to see this. There is absolutely nothing that can be improved upon the Zebralight switch at all. The placement, the size, the amount it is recessed are all PERFECT! No way to accidentally activate it in a pocket.

Also I think if people are switching modes a lot would not prefer a stiff hard button switch like the Armytek. Same goes for people who adjust the headlamo in the holder a lot, they will not like how hard it is to turn. Even with silicone grease my ZL is more fluid in a holder than the Armytek. In fact I have never had a headlamp where I wished it was harder to rotate in the holder. Well maybe the Icon Irix I or II as that holder it does rotate a little too freely but that was remedied with shims.

I genuinely do like the switch placement and 'stiffness', it seems more ergonomic when mounted on the headband. I also like that it's quite hard to rotate in the headband.

I also can't replicate the 'lock-up' after quite a few tries on both strobe and voltage indicator, so I don't think that it affects every model.

Yes, I am still disappointed about them forgetting to re-calibrate the colour LED temperature indicators. But that is my only real gripe with what is otherwise a fantastic light imo.

 

[bradthebold]

I have never used the strobe modes and mine still locks up. The last response I got from their support was Tuesday night and I've replied with 3 emails since then. Their customer service is terribly slow, at best, and looking to be just terrible in general.

Beyond that (and the stepping down and lack of warning mode and too tight of headband holder), I really like the light though. It's bright, I love the beam floodiness and brightness. Most of actually just using the light is good, but all of the issues are starting to outweigh the positives. This is my first light though, so I don't have anything to compare it to. I feel like this is floodier than an H600 but would have more throw than an H602 and I like the 5500K color, so I wouldn't want to compromise the main specs of the light to try something else.

 

[Trevtrain]

Just curious how you have the light orientated is the switch on the top or bottom when in the rubber holder? I have tried it both ways and I am always expecting the switch to be on the end and not on the tube itself. Even retraining myself to use the button on the bottom, it is awkward.

Switch up, right hand side. Thumb on bottom of head, index finger on top and squeeze. If I was left-handed I'd probably still do it this way.

Not sure how anyone would prefer the stiff and hard button on the Armytek. Are the people that like them not familiar with the ones on Zebralights? To me the Zebralights are the best of the best, and I am disappointed only Zebralight has switches like this, as I wish ALL lights had this type of soft switch. I fail to see if people that have and use a Zebralight switch would prefer the Armytek one. I fail to see this. There is absolutely nothing that can be improved upon the Zebralight switch at all. The placement, the size, the amount it is recessed are all PERFECT!

So I'm starting to get the impression that despite what we've said, you fail you see how anyone could like the Armytek switch?

Incidentally, do you have this much heartache when you have to change cars?

 

[Beacon of Light]

I'm actually stating to think anyone that would prefer a hard stiff switch may have some kind of mental condition as it makes no sense.

And yes I hate changing cars.

Switch up, right hand side. Thumb on bottom of head, index finger on top and squeeze. If I was left-handed I'd probably still do it this way.



So I'm starting to get the impression that despite what we've said, you fail you see how anyone could like the Armytek switch?

Incidentally, do you have this much heartache when you have to change cars?

 

[RedForest UK]

I have mine oriented the same as Trevtrain, with the switch on top at the right and use my index finger and thumb to squeeze the head.

I am actually wondering if there may be variation between units as I find the stiffness of my switch, whilst quite a bit harder than my H501w, to be about the same as on my SC600.

I don't dislike Zebralight's switches, but think that the positioning is good and probably better on the Armytek (albeit a little difficult to adjust to if you are used to a Zebralight), and that the stiffer switch is a good choice to avoid accidental activation without being too hard to press.