The Official Zebralight Thread

[jabe1]

Yes, you can get to the level of brightness you want, but as was already iterated, without knowing the numbers, you cannot reliably determine the runtime.

 

[chillinn]

so you can find a ramping speed that's right for you and allows you to nail exactly the level you want with the smooth ramping.

Yes, you can get to the level of brightness you want,

You're fooling yourselves. Even if ramping were a hundred times slower than Andúril2 could permit, choosing a light level is always a compromise due to the interface being a button rather than a dial or a fader.

 

[defloyd77]

You're fooling yourselves. Even if ramping were a hundred times slower than Andúril2 could permit, choosing a light level is always a compromise due to the interface being a button rather than a dial or a fader.

Preset outputs are a compromise too though. What do you do if you need more output or runtime than one mode, but less than the next one? Not to mention knowing the advertised runtime isn't very handy if you have used any other mode on the same battery. You too are fooling yourself.

Also dials/faders are also a compromise as lights with those typically take a hit in runtime at a given output.

Everything is a compromise of some kind.

 

[chillinn]

Preset outputs are a compromise too though. What do you do if you need more output or runtime than one mode, but less than the next one? Not to mention knowing the advertised runtime isn't very handy if you have used any other mode on the same battery. You too are fooling yourself.

The only alternative to having preset outputs and known runtimes is having absolutely no idea of runtime, nor, for that matter, having any idea of what the lumen output actually is. (We are, on the whole, extremely bad at judging what a brightness is just by looking at it in isolation).

Also dials/faders are also a compromise as lights with those typically take a hit in runtime at a given output.

I did not intend to suggest that lights should have dials or faders (there are lights with faders?), only that with a dial or a fader could a desired output level be consistently achieved.

 

[Connor]

You're fooling yourselves.

Really don't understand what your problem is. Anduril2 has 150 levels. You can set the stepped ramp to as many levels as you wish, you can have 3 just like ZL.
You can measure the runtime for the levels, which you'd have to do anyway because every LED and battery is a little different.
Plus it's not like ZL sometimes didn't tell us the runtime/level for years.

 

[jon_slider]

Anduril offers both smooth ramping and stepped mode options.
Ramping allows fine tuning to access outputs inbetween the stepped modes.
The ramping speed is configurable.
In stepped mode, the number of steps is configurable.

Zebralight uses 12 possible output steps.
Anduril can be configured to do the same.

Zebralight has certain min and max outputs.
Anduril can be configured to use the same floor and ceiling limits.

There IS an Anduril option for Zebras:
but I know Old Zebra lovers dont want Anduril..

 

[chillinn]

Really don't understand what your problem is.

I have no problem in that I am not deluded about the usefulness of smooth ramping.

You can measure the runtime for the levels

Do you honestly believe anyone has done or will do this?

Ramping allows fine tuning to access outputs inbetween the stepped modes.

Perhaps in theory, but in practice there is no way to know where one sets the output when in a smooth ramping configuration. You can't say, "I smooth ramp to 60 lumens because I like that level the most." There is only a vague idea of a setting of very low, low, mediumish, highish. We can configure for stepped ramping, and then count the levels as we set them, and know, but we are talking about smooth ramping, not stepped ramping.

Everyone may love smooth ramping, but this does not change the fact that everyone also has no idea what light levels they are choosing nor any idea of what their runtime would be even if they tried to test it. Perhaps it isn't of vital importance, but that doesn't change the fact of it. And just because any of you prefer smooth ramping doesn't mean that it can therefore provide functionality or knowledge about lumen output or runtime. It can't. Just take it easy and accept that you just don't care, that you're too freewheeling to be bogged down by details that don't matter to you, rather than try to insist smooth ramping can do all that discrete light levels provide.

 

[Connor]

I have no problem in that I am not deluded about the usefulness of smooth ramping.

Seems like the concept of "just smoothly ramp to the brightness you need for the task at hand" without having to care for fixed levels is not to your liking. Anduril2 has both smooth and stepped ramps (as mentioned above) and you can switch between both ramps with a triple click. The horror.

 

[defloyd77]

The only alternative to having preset outputs and known runtimes is having absolutely no idea of runtime, nor, for that matter, having any idea of what the lumen output actually is. (We are, on the whole, extremely bad at judging what a brightness is just by looking at it in isolation).

So do you really intend on testing every mode with every battery yourself? Are you then going to time your usage? What happens when you use another mode? How are you going to factor that into the runtime?

We may be terrible at gauging lumens by eye, but we don't have any problems gauging too bright from not bright enough, so when you are stuck between those, you have to make that compromise. With ramping you can stop where you want it and assuming similar efficiency, save some battery life by not going brighter than you need.

 

[chillinn]

Seems like the concept of "just smoothly ramp to the brightness you need for the task at hand" without having to care for fixed levels is not to your liking.

You're turning that on its head. It is far simpler to have a discrete level as opposed to having to ramp up to a level first.

So do you really intend on testing every mode with every battery yourself? Are you then going to time your usage?

Pay attention, please, this was Connor's absurd idea, not mine.

 

[Connor]

I have tested the medium level on a ZL in the past myself. Pretty absurd, I know.
IIRC there was a thread on CPF where someone even more absurd tested the ZL runtime on the lowest moonlight level for a year or so.

You're turning that on its head. It is far simpler to have a discrete level as opposed to having to ramp up to a level first.

For the last time, you can have discrete levels in Anduril2 with the stepped ramp. They're always the same levels and the runtimes are the same.

E.g. with 3 levels you could have L-M-H level 1, 75 and 150 out of 150. You can't have the sublevels the way ZL is doing it, but you can have more stepped levels (default is 7 equally spaced levels between 1 and 120 and doubleclick-to-turbo is 150. Or you can have no turbo - whatever you want).

It can be very simple (almost ZL-like) or much more complex or anything in between. The ZL UI honestly just feels very old and conservative to me now, not that conservative is bad in itself. The flexibility that Anduril2 offers feels just much nicer and I do wish ZL would (optionally) offer this for their lights, too.

 

[Derek Dean]

Anduril offers both smooth ramping and stepped mode options.
Ramping allows fine tuning to access outputs inbetween the stepped modes.
The ramping speed is configurable.
In stepped mode, the number of steps is configurable.

Zebralight uses 12 possible output steps.
Anduril can be configured to do the same.

Zebralight has certain min and max outputs.
Anduril can be configured to use the same floor and ceiling limits.

There IS an Anduril option for Zebras:
but I know Old Zebra lovers dont want Anduril..

Yep, I'm one of those old Zebra lovers, and while I did finally break down a few years ago and get a light with the Anduril UI, I found that while it's ok, I still prefer my Zebras.

But mainly, one of the things that always seemed to be in Zebralights favor was the efficiency of their driver, especially at lower levels, where many other drivers seem to be quite inefficient. I mean, it seems like most other lights list their lowest levels with runtimes of days or possibly weeks, where most Zebras at comparable levels will typically run for months, at least that's what it seems like to me.

 

[chillinn]

I have tested the medium level on a ZL in the past myself. Pretty absurd, I know.
IIRC there was a thread on CPF where someone even more absurd tested the ZL runtime on the lowest moonlight level for a year or so.

What was absurd was trying to test the runtime of a smooth ramping level. Testing runtime of a discrete level is perfectly cromulent, because the level doesn't change and we know what it is.

For the last time, you can have discrete levels in Anduril2 with the stepped ramp. They're always the same levels and the runtimes are the same.

And one more time, the statements I made were only about smooth ramping levels. What I said about smooth ramping had nothing to do with the stepped levels. Bringing up the stepped levels originally and again is somewhat of a straw man. I wasn't opining about Andúril2, I was only talking about smooth ramping.

 

[defloyd77]

Pay attention, please, this was Connor's absurd idea, not mine.

Oh, I'm paying attention. I figured one so fixated on knowing runtimes wouldn't just take the manufacturer's advertised runtimes as fact.

You still didn't address whether or not you bother to time your usage or what you do if you use another mode.

 

[chillinn]

You still didn't address whether or not you bother to time your usage or what you do if you use another mode.

Generally I am aware of how long I've been using a light in various modes and know within some margin of error how much runtime is left. I always have some idea of the SoC of the cell(s) in use. Zebralight's published mode runtimes are helpful. I usually do one runtime test with a new cell if it has a different capacity rating with an incan to see how close it is to the math, the cell capacity divided by the lamp current, but really nothing beyond that.

 

[Lips]

.
Many or most of us have both UI's ( both have little trad-offs)
.
I prefer the Zebra UI for an around the house light for its quickness and simplicity particularly with the low levels...
.
.
.
How would\could you set Anduril 2:
- 1 Hold goes to a favorite 30 lumens and then be able to quickly get below that floor to .31 lumen. ( I don't want to give up a click to a med - high - turbo level or do any presets)

.
.

 

[AstroTurf]

my zl ramps...

push and hold the switch, and it ramps from low to medium to high...

every single time.

no Audrey to f around with. FTW

 

[this_is_nascar]

So, how much more bandwidth is going to be wasted discussing a UI that ZL doesn't have in a ZL thread?

 

[chillinn]

Not to knock Andúril2 lights, but ZL are probably more rugged and reliable. The new switch design in Lumintop FCxx and Noctigon/Emissar models is extremely innovative, but still a little janky. I consider ZL models as hardened as Surefire, even if they're technically not weapon lights, I have no doubt they would survive the shock of recoil repeatedly. I and my rescue kitten have unfortunately repeatedly knocked my KR4 over and again off its 3.5' perch onto vinyl covered concrete floor. There's a few dings on the tailcap, but otherwise it's faired fine with no effect to its function. I have two ZL SC5c Mk II, one purchased at release, one purchased very near its discontinuation. The older one has fallen from 7' onto the same vinyl covered floor a few times to no effect other than small tailcap dings. My anecdotes are evidence of nothing, but my point is that ZL are intentionally ruggedized to take repeated abuse and endure, while Andúril lights are intended for Liion flashlight hobbyists and should probably be given more care and not expected to stand up to the same amount of abuse.

 

[jon_slider]

Zebralights are potted, which contributes to their durability.

Zebralights can be modified (LED swap, driver swap, addition of Aux lights), and then repotted.