Coronavirus

[SCEMan]

Not deriding, just chuckling because inevitably some things we/they believe to be true now based on data may prove to be at least partly inaccurate down the road. That doesn’t make their advice bad - we can only make decisions based on what we know at any given time. I love science, and science is constantly evolving, as it should. But not all experts agree on everything about this, so somewhere someone who thinks he/she is right is bound to be wrong. That’s just how science works. [emoji51] Greek astronomer Ptolemy thought the Earth was the center of the universe. People believed that for a long time. He was wrong.

And of course, some so-called experts you may find out there are anything but. I think we can all agree on that one. There are always quacks, and some are quite charismatic. What do they say, anyone can put anything on the internet?

It really is amazing when you look back at all the "experts" over the last 20 years or so who appeared during various crises, and who later in post-mortems proved to be incorrect, or completely wrong in their assessments. And for the most part they seldom seem to be held accountable, and in many cases continue to be considered experts.

 

[bykfixer]

Good news this morning.
Everybody reading this is still here.

So remember to wash your hands and only touch your face with your elbow.

 

[Poppy]

Right, no harm in changing clothes at all. Plus you’ll smell daisy fresh all day. :) From what I’ve read viruses do not do so well in fibrous, porous materials, it’s much harder to pick up the viral particles from something thing like fabric than say, a metal handrail, and also you are unlikely to rub your face all over your clothes, or put your clothes in your mouth. So the relative risk of viruses on your clothes is very very low compared to your hands or other things that you touch and put on your face like glasses, phones etc. Remember, every day you go out and likely pick up rhinoviruses, influenza viruses, noroviruses, rotaviruses, coronaviruses (ones in existence before SARS CO-V-2) etc. and probably don’t worry too much about them on our clothes etc. COVID19 Is likely especially contagious moreso because we are a naive population to this virus, not so much because it is ending up on all kinds of things that viruses never were on before. Sick folks eat donuts on their way to work, lick their fingers and then touch elevator buttons and ATMs everyday, for example. People are probably breathing out viral particles at us all the time and we never knew it because we weren’t watching fun animations of it on the news. Haha

Thanks... not only daisy fresh, but "Charmin Clean" :thumbsup:

Considering that we are a naive population to this virus, I wonder what percentage of our population needs to be exposed and recovered before we can safely get back to more normal/less restrictive activities. Certainly there will be a "new normal." I wonder what it will be. I wonder what the plan will be to lift restrictions, allow people to go back to work, and balance the rate of return to the rate of the rise of number of infections, and hospitalizations, and ultimately deaths.

Big decisions are coming, and some trial and error. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[nbp]

I’m a Charmin man too, haha. There’s only one of me so I splurge for the good stuff. ;)

Agreed, that is $1M dollar question. Or should I say $2T question? We may never be free of this virus, just as we battle numerous other yuckies all the time. But at some point we gotta find an acceptable amount of risk and get back to living. I don’t think anyone knows exactly when that will be or what the metrics are for acceptable risk/infection rates. Presumably when they feel the rate of infection and hospitalization is within the capacity of the nation’s hospitals to handle. That is only my opinion, not any official statement I’ve seen.

 

[bykfixer]

How do we restart the economy?
Once the restrictions are done I plan on going out for a steak and tip the server well, stop in a hobby store that was deemed non essential and buy an RC car or something cool like that, stop at a shoe store that was closed and buy some shoes and then go by a barber shop and pay for a haircut for the first time since the 1990's.

A fellow that has a temp agency in the building I work out of says nobody wants a job right now. "Why should they when the combination of state and feds plan is paying folks between $14 and $22 an hour" he said. He said he has lots of jobs listed at grocery stores, factories, food services, travel agencies and others yet nobody is applying".
That was a sobering statement.

 

[nbp]

Do they not want to work, or are they afraid to work in those sectors due to potential exposure? It may not be laziness that keeps them home. A few months ago unemployment was crazy low, people were happy to work.

 

[StarHalo]

An article over at The Atlantic, We're Not 'All In It Together':

After many decades of truancy, when our markets and politics and pop culture valorized extreme egoism, COVID-19 has offered us a crash course in civic character. The pandemic is forcing Americans to choose, very visibly, whether to live like citizens or like sociopaths. Citizens see in systems, while sociopaths see only themselves; citizens defer short-term gratification for long-term benefit, while sociopaths flip the sequence.

 

[bykfixer]

Do they not want to work, or are they afraid to work in those sectors due to potential exposure? It may not be laziness that keeps them home. A few months ago unemployment was crazy low, people were happy to work.

Valid questions.
What he was stressing wasn't really about being lazy and if my post came off that way, oops. It wan't meant to. What he was saying was that his temp agency business is ironically being crushed right now. We were discussing businesses affected and how they can return to normal either by adjusting their business model like hotel food suppliers switching to home delivery or in his case lowering his profit to zero so he can stay afloat until what looks like could be mid to late summer.

America in general has shown proper civics galore. It's everywhere you look except your tv screen and in op-ed pieces. It's there, you just have to turn off the news to find it.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

Looks like politics will play a part in when states lockdowns may end, not just be based on when it's actually safe. In Michigan, people are fed up to the point that they're signing a petition to recall their governor over how the lockdown infringed on their rights. Other states may follow suit. The way some of these lockdowns took place has been blatantly unconstitutional and a lot of people have had enough. This may pressure politicians to get things back to normal or risk losing their jobs. I honestly think that when it comes people's safety, most politicians would try to save their job over saving lives so the lockdowns may start ending soon. I just hope it doesn't backfire and start this all over again.

 

[bykfixer]

I called that many pages ago HoF when I said Americans will not be forceably corraled. I agree 100% with what you are saying. Making sidewalks one way? Fining people for going to a park? Breaking up barbecues? Can't play basketbal? The head dude Fouchi said last night "we may carry fitness cards later" This aint China, it aint Iran, it aint East Germany.
"Ask me to stay home, yup you got it. Tell me to, screw you man I'm an American by golly" is some of the sentiment right now. Especially the youth who are young, energetic and bored out of their minds.

 

[Poppy]

In part I think that we are all living in different realities.

Much of it is related to the population density of where we live and work.

Let's look at the population densities of three different states, NJ, Va, and Arkansas.
NJ density 1200 per square mile Mostly in the NE section of the state. (for example West New York NJ has a density of 52,000 per square mile)
VA density 1/6th that at 200 per square mile, here's some maps
Arkansas 1/24th of that at 50 per square mile.

Here in NE NJ we are acutely aware of the virus, and we are doing our civic duty, to stay in place, and not congregate, to slow the tide of the pandemic. So that our hospitals, and auxillary/overflow beds are not overwhelmed to the point of having to choose who gets cared for and who dies.

Our return to "normal" will probably be a mitigated approach.
NY's Governor Cuomo said today that when it happens, he wants NY, NJ, CN, DE, and PA to work together as much as possible in a coordinated opening the valve. In opening the valve, they will have to keep an eye on the number of new hospitalizations to make sure the system can appropriately handle the new influx. He went on to say, that experts in various fields will have to make a plan. There isn't a plan, yet, other than to make one.

I saw in today's news that Cuomo was able to return some borrowed ventilators to a nursing home today.
It is said that NJ has not yet hit its peak, and yesterday our Governor said that we only have (I don't recall... 60 ventilators in reserve?)
Regarding when to return to school, he may co-ordinate it with NY.
Also there needs to be a plan, but we are not near ready to make one. We are still fighting the fire.

Virginia
People may think it is fake news when there is only 8 reported infected in their county. Maybe 100 in the state 2 1/2 weeks ago. They'll start to wake up to the reality when they see that it is coming home. See this article and graph
increased to over 5,700 in the last 2 1/2 weeks.

Arkansas
Population density of about 50 per square mile.
They have not enacted stay at home. In fact the governor wants people to keep their distance but otherwise go on with their daily lives so as not to impact the local economy.
He says they have 8,000 beds, and only 80 cases in the state.

 

[scout24]

Insults, more politics, infectious disease experts are now civics professors. Thread cleanup coming in 5....

 

[knucklegary]

Isn't the message i keep hearing "we're all in this together"
Sounds pretty simple to me brothers

 

[nbp]

Aww man, we were really having a good discussion now the past day or so.

Remember when Admin posted pages ago about attacking posts not the poster??? Yeah, now would be a good time to heed that warning.

 

[ven]

Isn't the message i keep hearing "we're all in this together"
Sounds pretty simple to me brothers

We sure are brother:grouphug:

 

[scout24]

I'm all for this being a repository for info, opinions, charts, graphs, etc. I'm sure everyone's in agreement with that. I could be wrong but I think a bunch more leeway exists here due to the topic, times we're ALL going through, and Admin leaving it open. CPF rules and decorum should still reign, folks. Nobody here's an expert (with possible rare exception) in what's going on. We're varied in backround, experience, opinion, etc. Please let's keep it civil and respectful.

 

[SCEMan]

In part I think that we are all living in different realities.
Much of it is related to the population density of where we live and work.

Very well said.

 

[bykfixer]

No matter where you are on planet earth, common sense techniques can assist quality of life.
Stewing about things reduces quality of life.
Pandemic or no pandemic.

I decided a long time ago that the novel corona is like an evil Santa Clause. It'll get to me sooner or later. Is that dismissive? Irresponsible? I sleep pretty well every night knowing our home is doing everything we know how to do to thwart the spread.

My state started out with a couple of small dots on a big white map. Blue dots being case locations. It is now a few white dots on a blue map. Some here say "nobody is safe". Ridiculous. No need to trip about it.

It's the after that concerns me most. Governments love power. Right now they have way more than they should nearly everywhere on planet earth. It's what they do with it after this so called appocolypse with a what time will show an approximate 1 to 2% death rate when the dust settles.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Our immune systems are excellent. Your body has been fighting pathogen assaults 24 hours per day since you were born. Practice good hygiene, but 99% of your daily activities are no germier than they were a few weeks ago when you didn’t give it a second thought.

The death and suffering this novel coronavirus has caused is tragic, and not to be ignored, and yet a wider look might be helpful and deserved, given the horrendous hardship this event has place on so much of the world. Let's look back to history. It's so great to see CPF members share their research and experiences, as well as see the full spectrum responses.

Remember the Y2K disaster? That is certainly not the same thing as this pandemic but humans responding to a perceived threat, and some using it for their own reward.

How about the 1970's short-lived law requiring all new cars to have a ignition seatbelt interlock? "It will save lives"

The energy crisis back then also made United States citizens have to slow down to 55 miles per hour on the interstate; saved gas AND lives.

We are looking to see who has credibility, who is uniting us, and who will help us emerge stronger.

 

[bykfixer]

Bravo.

Remember the Shell comercial reccomending you treat the accelarator like it has an egg under it, and the egg was your best friend? I still appologize to my buddy Eggbert every time I have to "floor it" when driving.