Flashlight 'Unknown' Code of Conduct.

[GTi474]

Nice thread idea. Hopefully most of it is common sense.

One thing you do mention though is actually something security guards and LEOs do on purpose. They intentionally shine the light in other people's eyes. I remember one lovely night, I was out in a park stargazing with a friend. A couple of LEOs tramped up to us with our dark adapted eyes and blasted us in the face with their lights. Once we could see something again and our state of being fully clothed and manner clearly indicated we were not the couple reported as being in the middle of having nooky in the park, I had a few words with these officers about their invasion of our peace and how they might not shine their lights in innocent people's faces. They shrugged and said they did it on purpose.

Their "invasion of your peace" was a response to a call. Parks are places people take their families, and not the place for "nooky." Until they can establish who you are and what you are doing, they have no way of knowing you are "innocent people."
Their approach to you, while from your point of view was an invasion, is one of the most dangerous times for any officer. Our initial contact with someone is the time we are most at risk of being assaulted or killed with an unseen weapon. We take every advantage we can get. If it means blinding you and intentionally making you overt your eyes, that is what we are going to do. I am sure you had no permanent eye damage and were back to dark adjusted within a few minutes.
Next time instead of telling an officer how to do his job and expressing disgust, acquiesce to his requests and realize he has a fairly thankless and at times very dangerous job to do. And keep in mind not only will he put himself between you, a complete stranger, and harm but also that he will most likely die 10 years earlier than average due to the stress he voluntarily takes upon himself.

-Eric

 

[Swede74]

Good thread

This is a good thread, and in order to keep it that way, perhaps it is a good idea to focus on code of conduct for civilian use of flashlights?

 

[Search]

In my job... Pet peeve number one. DONT SILHOUETTE ME when approaching a target location. Nothing like being turned into the perfect analogue of an IDPA target for some perp... Friggin boots and old rubber gunners are the world's worst for this... This kinda stuff needs to be sent up the line to a congressman so we can get some encorcement action going on... :p
Cheers.

-Eric

Oh god I can't even BEGIN to tell you how many times we trained to AVOID this. We'd run drills entering from a stack OVER and OVER and OVER and god help you if an instructor caught you backlighting someone..

 

[subwoofer]

Yup. It's a commonly used/taught tactic. You temporarily blind the subject because it gives you more time to assess them and the situation while they're seeing spots. Allows you to see if a driver you pulled over is intoxicated or under the influence of some substance. While they're temporarily blinded you have a chance to quickly scan the interior of the vehicle for weapons or alcohol/illegal substances etc. It works the same way encountering subjects on foot when responding to a call.

Also potentially makes it harder for them to target you accurately if they turn out to be armed and dangerous. For these very reasons, you don't want to shine your bright flashlight in an LEO's face. You don't want to impair an LEO's vision unless you want trouble.


Max

I know, but being on the receiving end when perfectly innocent is still annoying.

Their "invasion of your peace" was a response to a call. Parks are places people take their families, and not the place for "nooky." Until they can establish who you are and what you are doing, they have no way of knowing you are "innocent people."
Their approach to you, while from your point of view was an invasion, is one of the most dangerous times for any officer. Our initial contact with someone is the time we are most at risk of being assaulted or killed with an unseen weapon. We take every advantage we can get. If it means blinding you and intentionally making you overt your eyes, that is what we are going to do. I am sure you had no permanent eye damage and were back to dark adjusted within a few minutes.
Next time instead of telling an officer how to do his job and expressing disgust, acquiesce to his requests and realize he has a fairly thankless and at times very dangerous job to do. And keep in mind not only will he put himself between you, a complete stranger, and harm but also that he will most likely die 10 years earlier than average due to the stress he voluntarily takes upon himself.

-Eric

Again, using it as a valid tactic is fine in the right circumstances, but in the UK (therefore hardly likely to be armed) when slightly averted light clearly showed two people lying on the backs looking at the stars is hardly a tense tactical situation, and surely a well trained LEO can tell the difference, after all they are highly trained.

Your comment about being "back to dark adjusted within a few minutes" means you have no concept of dark adaptation. it take hours. Just go to a 'star party' with astronomers all with fully dark adapted eyes and shine your flashlight about. You will be lynched!

I find the attitude of LEOs quite offensive when they think they can trample over the common man in the course of their duty. Thoughtful LEOs get my full support and co-operation. Thoughtless ones far less cooperation. There is no excuse for treating anyone badly. Serve and Protect, isn't that one of the mottoes.

 

[herosemblem]

I´d say that in the real world, being cognizant of flashlight fanatics' or stargazer hobbyists´ night vision or grumpiness is rightfully the least of an officer or guard´s concern. They have a job to do.

 

[jamesmtl514]

To avoid fueling the fire...

Avoid showing off your brighter light to someone who is impressed with their 'bargain' light.

 

[Cerealand]

Don't tell the real price of your flashlight(s) to most casual observers? They will think you're insane.

Telling a person the retail price of a malkoff drop-in was enough to think I'm crazy.

 

[bluemax_1]

To avoid fueling the fire...

Avoid showing off your brighter light to someone who is impressed with their 'bargain' light.

But that's how new flashaholics are recruited!


Max

 

[GTi474]

I know, but being on the receiving end when perfectly innocent is still annoying.



Again, using it as a valid tactic is fine in the right circumstances, but in the UK (therefore hardly likely to be armed) when slightly averted light clearly showed two people lying on the backs looking at the stars is hardly a tense tactical situation, and surely a well trained LEO can tell the difference, after all they are highly trained.

Your comment about being "back to dark adjusted within a few minutes" means you have no concept of dark adaptation. it take hours. Just go to a 'star party' with astronomers all with fully dark adapted eyes and shine your flashlight about. You will be lynched!

I find the attitude of LEOs quite offensive when they think they can trample over the common man in the course of their duty. Thoughtful LEOs get my full support and co-operation. Thoughtless ones far less cooperation. There is no excuse for treating anyone badly. Serve and Protect, isn't that one of the mottoes.

I only hope the review services you offer are more open minded than your review of Law Enforcement Professionals.

-Eric

 

[Lou Minescence]

The ( well known ) code of conduct for any lighting is " dim it ". Once you've made visual contact with a person or animal, dim your light if there is no threat. This is true with all lighting. Car headlamps on high, kids shining in your eyes etc... will bring out angry reactions from people or scare wildlife.

 

[savumaki]

Remember the old saying; "do onto others as you___________________________________"

 

[M@elstrom]

Since being shon at by a jumpy security guard and subsequently shining him back with my EA4 on turbo mode at a distance of 5 meters I truly think that we should have a shot at making some standard laws or rules for due care, this due to hi power LED's found today...

Where were you walking in a public place? was it well lit? I'll happily "light up" anyone lurking somewhere in the shadows, their discontent is not my concern.

 

[subwoofer]

I´d say that in the real world, being cognizant of flashlight fanatics' or stargazer hobbyists´ night vision or grumpiness is rightfully the least of an officer or guard´s concern. They have a job to do.

I only hope the review services you offer are more open minded than your review of Law Enforcement Professionals.

-Eric

I object to LEO's excessive heavy-handedness. The light in the eyes is not a particularly good example, a much better one is a friend who suffered at the hands of a thoughtless heavy handed LEO.

The scene: A queue outside a venue which ran along the wire fence separating those inside with those outside. As the queue moved the friend saw someone they knew inside. They reached out to touch hands and greet each other. A LEO seeing this jumped the friend in the queue, flooring them, broke their nose and bad grazing to their face (which has left scars). And why was this? The LEO thought my friend was passing 'something' to the person inside. Of course they weren't, but due to excessive application of force just because this person 'might' have fought back, they are now marked for life. Totally innocent and now a victim of the LEO.

Now don't get me wrong, I support all of our emergency services and servicemen. I think that in general they do a fantastic job, but there are exceptions and I do not think it is OK to use excessive force with the excuse that they do a dangerous job. There is a time and a place, and as a professional highly trained law enforcer, the application of that force should be done so with appropriate consideration, not stomping over everyone in their path.

This is not to derail the thread, but consider what I say and don't try to justify excessive actions with 'it is a difficult job' it doesn't wash with me. However also don't forget I am pro LEOs, so you don't need to think I am at all anti LEOs. (just anti-inconsiderate people)