Foursevens Preon P0

[Burgess]

I have performed a Low-mode run-time test, on an Energizer L92 Ultimate Lithium battery.

This battery tested 1.801 volts (no load), and fresh-dated. Room temperature.


Keep in mind -- these results are only for MY sample. Your mileage may vary.


After 5-and-a-half days (132 hours), output had dropped to 50 % brightness.


After 138 hours, output had dropped to 15 %.


At 140 hours, it suddenly went OUT !


Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above. :whistle:



But, of course, still a VERY respectable performance !


I'd be interested to hear what numbers other folks get.

lovecpf



BTW -- at the 50 % brightness level, i judged it Quite Similar to my
ZebraLight H51fw, on its lowest setting (Low-Low).

However, the P0 has a wider beam, and is TOTALLY flood.


Hope this information is helpful.


Edited to add --

I used my Minolta Auto Flashmeter III for this test.

It's now 30 years old ( ! ) and still serves me well !

_

 

[Got Lumens?]

I have performed a Low-mode run-time test, on an Energizer L92 Ultimate Lithium battery.
This battery tested 1.801 volts (no load), and fresh-dated. Room temperature.
Keep in mind -- these results are only for MY sample. Your mileage may vary.
After 5-and-a-half days (132 hours), output had dropped to 50 % brightness.
After 138 hours, output had dropped to 15 %.
At 140 hours, it suddenly went OUT !
Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above. :whistle:
But, of course, still a VERY respectable performance !
I'd be interested to hear what numbers other folks get.

lovecpf
BTW -- at the 50 % brightness level, i judged it Quite Similar to my
ZebraLight H51fw, on its lowest setting (Low-Low).
However, the P0 has a wider beam, and is TOTALLY flood.
Hope this information is helpful.

Thanks Burgess for your testing :thumbsup:
Was your test measured using a light meter or do you have a HMIS?
Based on your results. I will do a test starting in the AM tommorow using an Energizer L92-FR03(7X) on one of my version 1 samples.
GL

 

[Streamer]

Ahh,,but alas. Only in a perfect world where the laws of physics do not apply

and

direct proportions abound....:oops:

 

[someguy4747]

Great to see the impressive runtimes! But...Anybody else have a tough time coughing up $2 a lithium battery? I use rechargables in all my lights. Guiltless lumens! I'm still using the included Duracell in my P0 as of now but since it seems eneloops will damage the light I'm considering L92's. I just don't know if I can pay $2 a piece!? This is the cheapest I can find them on amazon. I usually always leave home with topped off batteries but I would want to fully deplete a $2 cell before I replaced it. This would cause me to leave home with half empty cells(notice my glass half empty view on the subject). I realize this is not a serious issue as I can afford the batteries and I always have another light, it just kind of messes up my philosophy of use(nutnfancy term!). Are any of you guys thinking the same?

 

[Got Lumens?]

Yes, I am thinking the same. That is the whole reason I want to use Eneloop batteries. With Burgess's results, and probably the same I will get, that leaves just the rechargeables that have a positive button shaped like a duracell. :(. The Energizers I have cost $2.35 each retail. If the run times do not exceed my expectatins, they are not justified compared to the regular Duracell alakaline. I love the form factor and design of this little P0 light. I'm keeping the two that I have. I am hoping for a revision that will be compatible with eneloops, but will use the standard Duracell or equivelent for many years to come.
GL

 

[shelm]

Are any of you guys thinking the same?

i am still sitting behind the fence watching.
since this thread and with the energy of several dedicated CPF seniors uncovered clearly which exact design issues should not let be unsolved and since the 4sevens old logo says "we've been listening to you for years", now i really expect a "hardware revision" (IT term!) anytime soon:

Preon P0 beta2

Dear 4sevens, plz do not disappoint us by not improving the current design thx ;)

 

[selfbuilt]

The Energizers I have cost $2.35 each retail. If the run times do not exceed my expectatins, they are not justified compared to the regular Duracell alakaline.

Alkaline sucks at medium currents and is nearly unusable at high currents. That's where the big difference comes from. In moonlight mode, however, the difference will be marginally or alkaline might even be slightly better (at room temperature that is. low temperatures give litium another advantage, alkalines are useless in the cold).

Helmut is quite correct. With a good circuit, you should expect to see a large difference between L92 lithium and alkaline at the reported 25 lumen Hi level, and a small (or negligble) difference at the reported 0.25 lumen Lo level. Good capacity NiMH should be intermediate to the L92 and alkaline at the Hi level, and likely slightly underperform at the Lo.

But the proof is in the pudding, as they say. I am currently doing actual runtime tests on a P0 sample 4Sevens sent me. I should have my preliminary review up by the end of the week, with at least all the Hi mode runs. Lo mode will take a little longer, and likely only be approximate (i.e., I don't intend to tie up my lightbox for weeks at a time ... :whistle:).

 

[mrlysle]

Thanks Burgess, for the low mode test. And thanks Eric for your contributions too! Looking forward to your review. With the ever present danger of an alky leak, I really wanted to pop a Eneloop in my PO and be done with it, but I have the same issue as many here do, with IC clearance at the positive cap. So for now, I'll be using L92's. If 4/7's doesn't physically change the driver in these, I might just do the solder mod as well. It is a neat little light, but not enough forethought went into the design.

 

[Burgess]

Thanks Burgess for your testing :thumbsup:
Was your test measured using a light meter or do you have a HMIS?

I used my Minolta Auto Flashmeter III for this test.

It's now 30 years old ( ! ) and still serves me well !

:thumbsup:
_

 

[craniotes]

Works as advertised...

FWIW, I just received my Preon Zero last night, and thus far it's perfect: threads are smooth, finish is excellent, one-handed operation is a go, the tint is fine and the GITD treatment works as advertised (you can still find your light hours after the fact, so long as you're in a dark room with adapted eyesight).

I'm not sure that this light will replace either of my SS ReVO's on my keychain, but there's no denying that this is one compact gem of a light. For 90% of what I would use a light like this for, the Preon Zero is pretty much perfect with its wide-angle, zero-artifact beam pattern. Of course, if you're outside and require a bit of throw, well, then this one ain't gonna cut it, but for putzing around the house, in the garage or simply trying to see the path at your feet, this one is hard to beat.

Good job, Foursevens!

Regards,
Adam

 

[Streamer]

[QUOTE mrlysle
If 4/7's doesn't physically change the driver in these, I might just do the solder mod as well. QUOTE]

If you do, use something harder than 40/60 solder. I'm starting to have issues with Eneloops again because the joint is too soft and collapsing after repeated usage. I just may stick with Lithium primarys for now.

Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.

 

[Got Lumens?]

If you do, use something harder than 40/60 solder. I'm starting to have issues with Eneloops again because the joint is too soft and collapsing after repeated usage. I just may stick with Lithium primarys for now.
Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.

Streamer brings a good point. If You decide to modd your Preon0 with the soldier, The contact surface needs to only be ~0.5mm high. It is not a permanent solution, just a work around. Caution should be taken to prevent it from being any higher than ~1mm as this can lead to failure with the oring sealing properly while the light is in the off mode. There is only ~1.75mm of head travel from the on position to where the oring becomes ineffective. The easiest option to make the modd last is to include a 26ga(0.4mm)or 24ga(0.5mm) solid wire clipping in the middle of the soldier blob, then it will stop wearing as quickly being copper instead of tin/lead.
GL

 

[my#1hobby]

[QUOTE mrlysle


Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.

I agree! I gave my last one away to a friend and now I'm hoping for an updated version to make a second purchase or TWO.

 

[shelm]

Preon P0 beta2

Does 4sevens ship free samples of the beta2 version for beta testing purposes?

i would like to sign up, want to have a free copy thanks! ;)

 

[Streamer]

Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..

Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... 4 SEVENS !!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[Got Lumens?]

Shelm, something like this?


. . . . . Click to Enlarge
GL

Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..

Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... 4 SEVENS !!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Looks like it is stamped and hollow to me, of course I don't have any dead Eneloops to confirm this . . .
GL

 

[Got Lumens?]

Anyone know of a magnet that is 2mm round and 1/2mm in height?
That might work, or it might cause more problems than it is worth :shrug:

Edit: Or maybe we can get Four Sevens to have Eneloop make them a special Preon 0 Battery.

 

[Streamer]

Edit: Or maybe we can get Four Sevens to have Eneloop make them a special Preon 0 Battery.

:crackup:

 

[jorn]

Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..

Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... 4 SEVENS !!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

You could try to insulate it with something really thin, like cut of 0.5 mm of a thin straw or something and se if it fits snug over the sides of the nipple. Mc-gyver stuff. :)

 

[Got Lumens?]

You could try to insulate it with something really thin, like cut of 0.5 mm of a thin straw or something and se if it fits snug over the sides of the nipple. Mc-gyver stuff. :)

Jorn,
I don't think that would work. There is physically not enough space for the Eneloop positive contact to fit between the two components on the driver board on several samples of P0's. Do you mean crimping the Eneloops positive contact to smaller diameter than ~3.5mm? :thinking: If so the insulation wouldn't be needed. You could soldier a 2mm long 24ga wire clipping to the Eneloops top :shrug: