That's great and all, but you're not scaring off a pack of hungry wolves or angry prostitutes with light bars, headlamps or lanterns. The stick of fire still reigns supreme.
Heresy -- Flashlights are useless
- Thread starter TPA
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Do you sell a stick of fire with 4500K color temperature?
One reason spending the night in campgrounds is disagreeable (aside from the generators powering a big screen tv watching a wrestling drama/comedy) is having one's eyes night adapted then someone activates a blazing multi LED lantern spitting out cold, low color rendering light in every direction.
We cherish using only minimum quality light that's needed for the task, with the ability to pound an area with photons if a potential threat rears its head (never wolves or angry harlots). Today's flashlights can do this.
Using a slightly modified head strap provides a reasonably secure attachment to the hand And a quick easy way to place on one's head when both hands are needed for something else.
But hey, if lanterns work for your applications, go ahead on. Just stay off my lawn.
One reason spending the night in campgrounds is disagreeable (aside from the generators powering a big screen tv watching a wrestling drama/comedy) is having one's eyes night adapted then someone activates a blazing multi LED lantern spitting out cold, low color rendering light in every direction.
We cherish using only minimum quality light that's needed for the task, with the ability to pound an area with photons if a potential threat rears its head (never wolves or angry harlots). Today's flashlights can do this.
Using a slightly modified head strap provides a reasonably secure attachment to the hand And a quick easy way to place on one's head when both hands are needed for something else.
But hey, if lanterns work for your applications, go ahead on. Just stay off my lawn.
It's all about Lifestyle, Work; what your lights are used for. And, that use will dictate your personal preferences. Thus, different types for different people. Most of mine are legit tactical lights used on the turbo setting for a few seconds. With a good combination of Throw and Flood, but with a clear lean towards Throw. Lanterns? Yes, I own a couple of those. Haven't used one in years! Headlamps? Yes, a couple of those too. Also haven't used them in years.
Bought a rechargeable Sofrin headlamp literally yesterday. Why?.... It was cheap and buying it got me Free shipping on the sofrin items I really wanted. Plus, I don't own a rechargeable headlamp. Figured I'd round out my collection. Literally, only reasons. Quite frankly, not good ones.
Bought a rechargeable Sofrin headlamp literally yesterday. Why?.... It was cheap and buying it got me Free shipping on the sofrin items I really wanted. Plus, I don't own a rechargeable headlamp. Figured I'd round out my collection. Literally, only reasons. Quite frankly, not good ones.
It's good to see ya back, @KITROBASKIN ! 👍
M@elstrom
Flashlight Enthusiast
What's the runtime on that thanks? 🤣
Directly proportional to the amount of napalm jelly on your person. It's fun. I promise.
alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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Wow. Cool story
Fuzzywuzzies
Newly Enlightened
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Seriously, @TPA ? If this isn't clickbait trolling, I don't know what is. I get your point(s), and understand that handheld lights do tend to be the proverbial 'hammer' that makes everything seem a 'nail', especially in the hands of enthusiasts such as you will find here; but the inverse is absolutely true. Your very useful lights have many, many scenarios where they are utterly useless. My point:
There's a world of difference between saying "Flashlights are useless", and saying "I no longer have any use for flashlights". As the saying goes, one reflects on the nature of the tool, and the other reflects on the nature of thefool user.
There are some amazing nail guns out there for all manner of building tasks, but none of it renders the simple, handheld hammer "useless". I may no longer use my hammers for their traditional mainstay - driving in nails - but I couldn't work without one for many, many other tasks.
The same goes for flashlights.
Oh, and before I bow out of this, er, discussion, let me say that the vast majority of the time, the tools you carry on your person and know how to use are the ones you use when life and limb depend on it. And yes, I speak not only from established wisdom, but also personal experience.
The torch, or flashlight, defined as a simple, portable device whose main purpose is emitting light; is neither useless nor dead.
There's a world of difference between saying "Flashlights are useless", and saying "I no longer have any use for flashlights". As the saying goes, one reflects on the nature of the tool, and the other reflects on the nature of the
There are some amazing nail guns out there for all manner of building tasks, but none of it renders the simple, handheld hammer "useless". I may no longer use my hammers for their traditional mainstay - driving in nails - but I couldn't work without one for many, many other tasks.
The same goes for flashlights.
Oh, and before I bow out of this, er, discussion, let me say that the vast majority of the time, the tools you carry on your person and know how to use are the ones you use when life and limb depend on it. And yes, I speak not only from established wisdom, but also personal experience.
The torch, or flashlight, defined as a simple, portable device whose main purpose is emitting light; is neither useless nor dead.
I remember being deep in a Florida attic with a 2AA Maglite....and the damn bulb blew. Pitch black in there. I felt so fortunate to have the spare bulb that day and I handled it with absolute care...in the dark...changing the entire thing in the dark, hoping I wouldn't drop anything into the insulation below. I never went in an attic again without 2 lights on my person.
Further proves my point.
Bright, nasty 6500K LEDs exist in all forms of lighting, even 120v/240v bulbs. I had some idiot shining a bright thrower flashlight at me one night while I was flying. Fortunately not as bad as someone shining a laser at you, but it was still unpleasant.
I'd argue that with a lantern's much more diffused light that such intrusions are far less intense. I'm usually needing runtime over brightness, so I'm usually using the lower power levels. In the photos I posted, the first two were both shot with the lanterns running on medium.
AM radio, incandescent bulbs, land line telephones... All of these inventions are over 100 years old. Are they obsolete? Most people would say there are better options available today. BUT the enthusiasts will argue that the devices which use these technologies (designs) today are much better and more advanced than in the infancies of their technologies (designs)! They're still useful and used every day! and new devices are being made every day which use these technologies (designs)! Amplitude Modulation is still how all aviation radios work because of better range especially at fringe reception, incandescent bulbs are still used in radiology suites, MRI in particular and put out the best light quality and hardwired connections still are considered to be more reliable than wireless! BUT...technology has progressed...and it's time to move forward. It's not to say there aren't edge-use cases...but that's the problem... they've become edge-use cases.
Most flashlights are based off the old carbide lantern design. The technology dictated the design in the carbide lamps, and even incandescent flashlights. LEDs are a game-changer, being as versatile, flexible, and powerful they are. Look at all of the new designs for fixed LED lighting these days compared to pre-LED fixtures. This is very noticeable when you look at something like a bedside table lamp. All sorts of non-traditional shapes these days. I think the same will be true with flashlights.
The traditional 4D Maglite Xenon flashlight was top dog for a long time. It was arguably the best all-around flashlight of its time. Portable, durable, and BRIGHT! It put out a whopping 100 lumens. Since it was a very focused beam, we were all impressed by such a measly output. By today's standards, that's completely laughable. A miniscule Rovyvon A5 is rated for 650 lumens. Since our light sources are so powerful now, we can 'afford' to go with a wider beam. We're seeing plenty of floody high-lumen flashlights today, but more lumens means we can go even wider. Much wider, possibly 180 degrees, or even up to 360 degrees wide. Oh wait, that's what lanterns do.
Lanterns have started to adapt their designs to the new technology. Hockey-pucks, miniatures like the BLF LT1 Mini, string lights, light bars, or even something like a Haven Tent's Ridgelight. And we're just seeing the beginning.
The real motive of my post was to get people to question the design and utility of traditional-style flashlights. I also question if the unwashed masses would be better served by a lantern / area light instead of a traditional flashlight for most use cases. By default, they think portable battery operated light = flashlight; lanterns don't even cross their mind. At the same time, I'm seeing that what people really need is not lighting up a small defined spot, rather they need to light a larger area.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
I think you assume far too much here and the popularity of lanterns proves that many are already using them. Your seemingly closed minded posts here also seem to ignore the reality that most of us citing the lowly flashlight as anything but "useless" are totally unlikely to ever be carrying much in the way of lanterns on our person or in our pockets.
The whole thread reeks of the type of blindered thinking that posits carrying anything by hand is ridiculous since it's so much easier to move it by train, therefore stop bringing the groceries into the house by hand.
Flashlights will always be a useful tool, just as crescent wrenches also are. The ridiculous posturing over 'this-or-that' as opposed to a realistic 'this-when-appropriate-and-that-in-its-own-turn' seems so at odds with some of the excellent posts and views you've written in other threads.
Yeah, they need to wait for the dawn to come and bring daylight.
Like it or not, reality forces us to do what we can, and for many of those occasions we still have flashlights.
I listen to AM radio too. And for privacy, nothing beats the corded landline telephone since cordless phones were deemed "open airwaves for anyone to listen in on" by the US court system.
I can't for the life of me though understand what all of the fuss is about over the word "useless". It's a word chosen instead of worthless, obsolete or other words that say op prefers lanterns and flooders these days. Maybe I'm being naive here, but I didn't see any malice or "trolling" in the opening post of this thread. I did however see an opening statement that invited debate about various forms of electric sunshine. No more no less.
Lighten up fellas.
Yes pun intended.
And the unwashed masses have been using lanterns long before some guy at a flashlight forum says it's time they learn about the lantern. I used hockey puck lights and rope lights and other alternative lighting sources for years before joining CPF 8 years ago. Some even use this thing called a magnet to make 'em stick to metal. 😱
I can't for the life of me though understand what all of the fuss is about over the word "useless". It's a word chosen instead of worthless, obsolete or other words that say op prefers lanterns and flooders these days. Maybe I'm being naive here, but I didn't see any malice or "trolling" in the opening post of this thread. I did however see an opening statement that invited debate about various forms of electric sunshine. No more no less.
Lighten up fellas.
Yes pun intended.
And the unwashed masses have been using lanterns long before some guy at a flashlight forum says it's time they learn about the lantern. I used hockey puck lights and rope lights and other alternative lighting sources for years before joining CPF 8 years ago. Some even use this thing called a magnet to make 'em stick to metal. 😱
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alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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if I need to light up a room, i use ceiling bounce technique, works actually better than a 360 lantern in the middle of the room, cuz you caN't avoid looking at a bright lantern. a flashlight in this case is not shining in your eyes regardless where you look, If i'm at a camp site i put a white foam cup over a flashlight pointed up, and I get a lantern, for flashlight stability i use a bounty or tp roll. never actually felt a needed for a lantern.
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As I look about my house, I note that all of my lighting sources are diffused lighting sources. Even lamps are not a a bare bulb, but rather are hidden by a diffusing light shade.
OTOH, they are good at giving a diffuse pattern of light.
The problem with pocket sized lanterns/ portable sized lanterns is that they don't have 18-24 inch diameter diffusers, like a lamp shade. That's why many like to use a ceiling as a diffuser.
If I use a lantern I want to set it up high, above direct eyesight level.
Again, if I am actually doing something that requires two hands, I like a headlamp. That doesn't mean that I would turn off the kitchen lights when I am working under the sink.
Like alpg88 said, lanterns are often distracting, and offer a good amount of glare.
OTOH, they are good at giving a diffuse pattern of light.
The problem with pocket sized lanterns/ portable sized lanterns is that they don't have 18-24 inch diameter diffusers, like a lamp shade. That's why many like to use a ceiling as a diffuser.
If I use a lantern I want to set it up high, above direct eyesight level.
Again, if I am actually doing something that requires two hands, I like a headlamp. That doesn't mean that I would turn off the kitchen lights when I am working under the sink.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
Accepting that, you now find said invited debate to be unacceptable, in favor of the OP who made such invitation??
Open debate would seem to be debate on the subject and not the attempt to squelch what it brings in return.
My statements stand and were in fact invited by the person responded to by his posting of overly generalized and condescending statements regarding how other people think and what they do.
Jean-Luc Descarte
Enlightened
You can make a lantern out of a flashlight.
You can't make a flashlight out of a lantern.
Gotcha
You can't make a flashlight out of a lantern.
Gotcha
Not at all. I think homie just chose some adjectives that to some seemed to be inflamitory. And those who responded by name calling in my view need to ease back on the throttle some and just enjoy a dialog where viewpoints differ. Sticks & stones and all that.
When I initially read the opening post my thought was "sheesh, anger issues much?" So I sharpened my pencil and wrote a rebuttal response. I mean, some people's speech filter is better at trapping abrasive statements than others. Some straight pipe without a muffler. Then I thought about it some and just considered other previous posts by the op and figured it is what it is, no harm no foul. I never considered "flaming" the guy.
For years friends of mine have insisted on floody, super nova bright lighting only so I get it. I'd just chuckle and say "did that one come with an oven mitt?" and move on. I asked one such member a while back "do you wear sunglasses at night? why all those lumens?"
And then there's all those old tint snob threads where people would keyboard battle each other over a few hundred Kelvin. To quote that guy in the movie wag the dog "this is nothin".
You can make a lantern out of a flashlight.
You can't make a flashlight out of a lantern.
Gotcha
In the 90's Coleman tried though.
jtr1962
Flashaholic
I think we have to realize the current design of most flashlights dates from the time when the limitations of light sources and batteries pretty much dictated that design. If your light source is very inefficient, and your batteries don't have much capacity, then the only way to get useable intensity is to highly focus the light, either with reflectors, or (far less commonly) lenses. We had more efficient light sources than incandescents since the 1930s at least, but not with a small enough size, or low enough power consumption, to work in handheld battery powered devices.
LEDs changed all that. So did much better batteries. We went up by a factor of 10 to 15 in efficiency. Batteries increased by at least a factor of 5 in energy density. All told, that means the product of lumens and run time went up by a factor of 50 to 75, maybe even 100 using the best LEDs and batteries. The form factor which was needed before is now only optional. The need to focus the light is far less. Even a bare emitter puts out enough intensity for the majority of uses. Witness the use of cellphone lights nowadays in lieu of flashlights. Basically just a bare surface mount emitter.
I found lately my bike lights double as flashlights. They have a battery time remaining display, several levels of brightness. Run times are as long as two days on the lowest settings. Built-in USB rechargeable battery.
As for lanterns versus flashlights, lanterns come into their own when you might need a few hundred lumens of diffuse light for many hours. You can't fit that much battery into something which is handheld. As with anything else, different tools for different uses.
LEDs changed all that. So did much better batteries. We went up by a factor of 10 to 15 in efficiency. Batteries increased by at least a factor of 5 in energy density. All told, that means the product of lumens and run time went up by a factor of 50 to 75, maybe even 100 using the best LEDs and batteries. The form factor which was needed before is now only optional. The need to focus the light is far less. Even a bare emitter puts out enough intensity for the majority of uses. Witness the use of cellphone lights nowadays in lieu of flashlights. Basically just a bare surface mount emitter.
I found lately my bike lights double as flashlights. They have a battery time remaining display, several levels of brightness. Run times are as long as two days on the lowest settings. Built-in USB rechargeable battery.
As for lanterns versus flashlights, lanterns come into their own when you might need a few hundred lumens of diffuse light for many hours. You can't fit that much battery into something which is handheld. As with anything else, different tools for different uses.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
With a handlebar mount, sometimes my Rotary has been my bike headlight too!
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
Which then would also allow viewpoints that differ from the OP as well. Instead of simply responding to the post I made, go look at what points I responded to and that one of my central reasons for making that post was his generalizing and condescending view of what others think and do.
I can easily accept that someone else thinks something that I disagree with, but have a button that's very easy to find when people start elevating themselves by belittling others en masse.
