Malaysian Ghost Plane
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BenChiew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Let's for a minute assume it is intentional. The plane's original flight is supposed to be 6 hours. Let's say it has got fuel for 7 hours to be airborne.
Can someone calculate what sort of range can this plane cover. Taking into consideration that it has been alleged that it escaped radar by flying low.
I am not sure if one is mad to do a air turn back cutting across 4 lines of very busy airway to head west without atc clearance.
I just took a screen capture and you can see how busy the air way is.
Can someone calculate what sort of range can this plane cover. Taking into consideration that it has been alleged that it escaped radar by flying low.
I am not sure if one is mad to do a air turn back cutting across 4 lines of very busy airway to head west without atc clearance.
I just took a screen capture and you can see how busy the air way is.
I saw a friend who is an Army pilot post that the range could've been either 2,000 or 3,000 nautical miles given their aircraft type and fuel supply. I saw an article that said the search area was approx the size of the US. I believe it was a "quiet" hijacking as well. Just not sure of the motive.
markr6
Flashaholic
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Airport '77 - they're all hanging out in the plane under water. Probably the worst movie ever made and embarrassed to say I have seen it...all the way through. But seriously, is it possible to make a relatively gentle crash landing in the ocean keeping debris to a minimum, and sink, making it impossible to find?
StarHalo
Flashaholic
When I mentioned "land in a remote area" in my scenario above, that could include a Russian ice field..
Right, I should be more specific; not a political defection but an identity defection, an agreement among key members of the crew to work together to disappear from their lives, debts, home situations, and restart somewhere new and far away. Using the plane makes sense in this context, since it's the only way you could get a great distance across many nations without being questioned and for free. But the passengers are the catch, since if this were the outcome, you would put the plane down somewhere where they could be found in ~48 hours. Perhaps our defectors overestimated the survivability of the passengers and set down in a location that was a little too remote.
Update: The Malaysian transport minister has conformed that he has "received radar data" but has declined to reveal its contents. That's not what you would do in the event of an accident, that's what you would do as a government official who may be in some trouble..
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Well, except for aliens.:duh2: Did all you flashlightaholics think you could just keep shinin those high powered lights into space all willy-nilly without somebody noticing?:D
Interesting... That tells me they are either waiting for next of kin to be notified of the accident/fatalities, or they are withholding it for tactical/intelligence reasons (i.e., not wanting to tip off the hijackers that officials may know where they are).
mcnair55
Flashlight Enthusiast
They know more than they are telling us.Some big countries are very quiet on it including the triangle of doom three.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
Okay, so here's our pilot, 53 year old Zaharie Shah:
The guy loves cooking with his family and is really into his PC flight sim rig; this pic is his last run on the simulator with his instructor before some planned upgrades:
BIG upgrades, the guy is all about the hardware:
So plenty of hardware knowledge, but that's not really out of the ordinary for a veteran pilot.
Some Facebook post highlights of the political variety:
Some empathy for the Boston event, nothing out of the ordinary there. The second post deals with Malaysian politics, arguing for democracy, but aside from the "alien predator" comment, nothing that would raise a red flag.
The mystery deepens..
The guy loves cooking with his family and is really into his PC flight sim rig; this pic is his last run on the simulator with his instructor before some planned upgrades:
BIG upgrades, the guy is all about the hardware:
So plenty of hardware knowledge, but that's not really out of the ordinary for a veteran pilot.
Some Facebook post highlights of the political variety:
Some empathy for the Boston event, nothing out of the ordinary there. The second post deals with Malaysian politics, arguing for democracy, but aside from the "alien predator" comment, nothing that would raise a red flag.
The mystery deepens..
MBentz
Enlightened
That is a nice simulator. I was big into FSX for quite some time and can honestly say that setup is not out of the ordinary. In fact, there are enthusiasts who have more elaborate rigs than this pilot. Go to Avsim.com (most likely you'll need to register to see the forums) to learn more.
Seems like an ordinary man to me. This is definitely one of the most bizarre events in quite some time.
Seems like an ordinary man to me. This is definitely one of the most bizarre events in quite some time.
HighlanderNorth
Flashlight Enthusiast
How is it even an option to switch a commercial jet's GPS locators off?
When I first started hearing about this 777 disappearing somewhere in the Pacific region, I kept hearing how the jet's GPS location equipment was turned off at some point by someone aboard the plane. It wasnt just that GPS locator either, as there was some other tracking equipment that was switched off. It took about .001 seconds for the ridiculousness of that statement to register in my brain. This is a roughly 240 million dollar jet that carries hundreds of human passengers, and its relatively new. This isnt old technology here. Also, remember that commercial jet related situation that occurred on 9/11/01 in New York, in Washington DC and in a field in Pa?
How is it even possible that the designers of a 240 million dollar commercial jet airliner would build into the systems of this plane the option for someone to disable the transponders and tracking equipment? This must be 2014's best example of a complete lack of common sense on the part of whoever made it possible for these systems to be disabled! It is of paramount importance to be able to locate a large jet airliner, and aside from radar, which apparently isnt omnipresent in the Pacific region, this is the primary system used to find these planes. I hope there is some sort of class action lawsuit to make sure that the option for anyone onboard these planes to switch these systems off is removed. I cannot think of any logical reason that people on any airliner would need to disable these systems. I did hear one 'expert' say that there are times that it may be helpful to turn them off, but if you weight the positives and negatives I think there should be a change to stop the disabling of these locators.
This is actually more stupid than the decision to locate the triply redundant hydraulic lines on DC-9's and DC-10's side by side and parallel to each other, so that in case of damage to one hydraulic line, there was a very good chance that even the 2 backup lines would also be damaged at the same time, leaving the jets without hydraulics, which led to major crashes with hundreds dead.
When I first started hearing about this 777 disappearing somewhere in the Pacific region, I kept hearing how the jet's GPS location equipment was turned off at some point by someone aboard the plane. It wasnt just that GPS locator either, as there was some other tracking equipment that was switched off. It took about .001 seconds for the ridiculousness of that statement to register in my brain. This is a roughly 240 million dollar jet that carries hundreds of human passengers, and its relatively new. This isnt old technology here. Also, remember that commercial jet related situation that occurred on 9/11/01 in New York, in Washington DC and in a field in Pa?
How is it even possible that the designers of a 240 million dollar commercial jet airliner would build into the systems of this plane the option for someone to disable the transponders and tracking equipment? This must be 2014's best example of a complete lack of common sense on the part of whoever made it possible for these systems to be disabled! It is of paramount importance to be able to locate a large jet airliner, and aside from radar, which apparently isnt omnipresent in the Pacific region, this is the primary system used to find these planes. I hope there is some sort of class action lawsuit to make sure that the option for anyone onboard these planes to switch these systems off is removed. I cannot think of any logical reason that people on any airliner would need to disable these systems. I did hear one 'expert' say that there are times that it may be helpful to turn them off, but if you weight the positives and negatives I think there should be a change to stop the disabling of these locators.
This is actually more stupid than the decision to locate the triply redundant hydraulic lines on DC-9's and DC-10's side by side and parallel to each other, so that in case of damage to one hydraulic line, there was a very good chance that even the 2 backup lines would also be damaged at the same time, leaving the jets without hydraulics, which led to major crashes with hundreds dead.
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StarHalo
Flashaholic
It's worse than that; you can "spoof" the transponder, so that your plane identifies itself as some other plane on an air traffic controller's screen. It's a good thing pilots are nice..
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I. Think. That. It. was. a. satellite. hijacking. test. performed. by. some. branch. of. government. with. full. cooperation. of. the. pilots. After all, it is usually necessary to have SOME form of inside connection at the site of the data breach, right? Imagine hundreds of remote controlled...utilities, ready for 'deployment' at any given time. Very very dangerous.
Lebkuecher
Flashlight Enthusiast
The military of many nations uses the civilian air fleets during national crises and time of war, you wouldn’t want the enemy to able to track and shoot down planes full of troops flying into war zones.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
- The reason no one used a cell phone is because cell phones only work on a plane that is flying under 10,000 and under 155 mph, that's why there were only two momentary cell phone calls on 9/11. Cell towers only send/receive from modestly above the horizon and can only "handshake" phones that aren't moving too quickly relative to their position. There is still a remote possibility of nothing more than a handshake from a passing phone, however - the cell tower would then log into its metadata the time/date that the phone was in its coverage area. But different regions have different rules and practices on storing metadata, some delete it after only a few days.
- The pilot and co-pilot did not ask to fly together, so it would have been a random assignment for each to work with the other that day.
- 370's engines reported cruising at 45,000 feet for some time; this is the service ceiling of the 777 and no sane pilot would attempt it, as controls would become very vague and there would be a very real possibility of a stall. Cabin pressure would have been essentially unaffected, however the pilot does have the option of depressurizing the cabin (and the crew can actually disable the oxygen masks that fall from above the seats), which would result in certain death for everyone behind the cockpit door in short order.
- After cruising at the service ceiling, the engines then reported a sudden plummet in altitude to 23,000 feet in the space of a minute, however it is in question if this is physically possible for the 777 at all. If not, it means the engines were sending ersatz data most likely resulting from the software having been deliberately turned off and then rebooted. So if the data is right, it's suspect. If it's wrong, it's suspect.
- The pilot and co-pilot did not ask to fly together, so it would have been a random assignment for each to work with the other that day.
- 370's engines reported cruising at 45,000 feet for some time; this is the service ceiling of the 777 and no sane pilot would attempt it, as controls would become very vague and there would be a very real possibility of a stall. Cabin pressure would have been essentially unaffected, however the pilot does have the option of depressurizing the cabin (and the crew can actually disable the oxygen masks that fall from above the seats), which would result in certain death for everyone behind the cockpit door in short order.
- After cruising at the service ceiling, the engines then reported a sudden plummet in altitude to 23,000 feet in the space of a minute, however it is in question if this is physically possible for the 777 at all. If not, it means the engines were sending ersatz data most likely resulting from the software having been deliberately turned off and then rebooted. So if the data is right, it's suspect. If it's wrong, it's suspect.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
An Australian satellite has spotted two objects in the South Indian Ocean that could be related to the plane. A US P-8 is en route, eta 20 mins as of this post.
BenChiew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Just saw that too.
Watching this development closely. Looks like there will be a presser in Sydney right about now. We'll see if anything comes of this search.
