BenChiew
Flashlight Enthusiast
A local retired airline pilot commented that Capt Zaharie is a very good pilot. Both technical and attitude. Back then Zaharie was his first officer for sometime.
Malaysian Ghost Plane
- Thread starter nbp
- Start date
As an aside, do you have any unique perspectives being in Malaysia during all this Ben? What is the feeling of those you chat with?
There actually was some **** poor terrorist group based in India that did initially take credit for it. But the authorities in that nation consider the group to be so utterly pathetic that they're ignoring the claim.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
Yesterday's search found a lot of fog, a freighter, and two pods of dolphins. Search resumes at sun up.
Reminds me of the genius amateur terrorist baggage handlers who recently thought they'd blow up the entire airfield by igniting the jet fuel in the underground lines. Their prison classes might inform them of fuel needing air to burn..
Reminds me of the genius amateur terrorist baggage handlers who recently thought they'd blow up the entire airfield by igniting the jet fuel in the underground lines. Their prison classes might inform them of fuel needing air to burn..
Last edited:
I didn't realize that the pictures of the objects were taken on Sunday! Apparently they could have floated 1000 miles since then, or sank. That has got to be a very frustrating search.
BenChiew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Nick. Being located does not give us much more than what is reported in the media. It has been a roller coaster ride for many of us here trying to make sense of this situation.
Most are as anxious to find out where the plane is and what has happened to it.
The route is one vey busy lane leading up to China, Taiwan, Japan and Korea. Most of us are wondering how can such a big plane disappear without a trace.
We do hear of someone knowing someone who is in the plane though and our thoughts goes out to the family members. It must be a terrible time for them and I for one would not want to be in their shoes.
I do hope that they locate the plane soon and bring some closure for the family assuming the worst has happened.
As far as I am concerned, I do believe that an accident has happened. I don't buy any of those elaborate conspiracy theories.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
Flight map showing how far away from Malaysia we're talking about:
BenChiew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Does the plane have enough fuel to get there?
BenChiew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Where did you get that?
==========
Okay, i saw it. Apparently it was properly packed and not regarded as a risk.
==========
Okay, i saw it. Apparently it was properly packed and not regarded as a risk.
Last edited:
C'mon, let's be respectful here. A lot of innocent people are missing and most likely dead. I don't really think it's appropriate to joke about.
markr6
Flashaholic
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2012
- Messages
- 9,258
Agreed. But I hope no one takes my response as an offensive "joke". Just making some light of the ___Fire batteries and other plane threads regarding Li-Ion. I can't speak for the other posts, but I'm sure they feel the same way and hope this plane is found soon. There's a lot of effort going into the search and noone can deny or pretend to understand how the families are feeling.
markr6
Flashaholic
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2012
- Messages
- 9,258
Uh oh, officially brining up batteries.
From CNN:
The CEO of Malaysia Airlines confirmed that the plane was carrying lithium-ion batteries.
Lithium-ion batteries are the type commonly used in laptops and cell phones, and have been known to explode, although it is a rare occurrence.
A fire attributed to lithium-ion batteries caused the fatal 2010 crash of a UPS cargo plane in Dubai. Lithium-ion batteries used to power components in Boeing 787 aircraft were also implicated in a series of fires affecting that plane.
So, in theory, a cargo of the batteries could have caused a fire that led Flight 370 to crash.
But Malaysia Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya told reporters the batteries were routine cargo.
"They are not declared dangerous goods" he said, adding that they were "some small batteries, not big batteries."
*Edit* jalal20 beat me to it ^^...sorry for missing that, but a little more info
From CNN:
The CEO of Malaysia Airlines confirmed that the plane was carrying lithium-ion batteries.
Lithium-ion batteries are the type commonly used in laptops and cell phones, and have been known to explode, although it is a rare occurrence.
A fire attributed to lithium-ion batteries caused the fatal 2010 crash of a UPS cargo plane in Dubai. Lithium-ion batteries used to power components in Boeing 787 aircraft were also implicated in a series of fires affecting that plane.
So, in theory, a cargo of the batteries could have caused a fire that led Flight 370 to crash.
But Malaysia Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya told reporters the batteries were routine cargo.
"They are not declared dangerous goods" he said, adding that they were "some small batteries, not big batteries."
*Edit* jalal20 beat me to it ^^...sorry for missing that, but a little more info
Last edited:
I know, I'm sure you didn't mean any harm, but since we do have many friends here from Malaysia and China we just have to be careful of their feelings.
Anyways, the batteries are an interesting topic. One way or the other finding the wreckage (assuming it crashed) is the only way to know what really happened! That Air France plane took 2 years to find!
Anyways, the batteries are an interesting topic. One way or the other finding the wreckage (assuming it crashed) is the only way to know what really happened! That Air France plane took 2 years to find!
StarHalo
Flashaholic
The battery scenario was brought up a few days ago in the media; pilots are specifically trained to put out a battery fire, there's an extinguisher in the cockpit for that purpose. Still doesn't explain the left turn, the radio silence, etc..
Edit: This is going to be a js-length post, so bear with me, I've run through some goldmines of data and have come up with all this. The electrical fire idea, which has come to be known as the Goodfellow Theory (named after the guy who posited it on Google Plus) is refined considerably by a comment posted over on Slate:
So all the radar data is questionable, not just the altitude anomalies. But there's a good chance the programming of the left turn was just something routine which was then executed after things became un-routine - that would explain why everything was fine on the radio 12 minutes after programming, and then the turn was taken after communication was lost, because the event that necessitated the emergency turn also prevented communication.
Another bit of info from a Slate commenter:
So shortly after the "good night" transmission, the turn indicates that something happened that prevented further communication, either because of equipment failure or the crew was otherwise too occupied.
Now we add in some other bits of info:
- You don't need autopilot for the plane to continue level flight in any given direction, it can auto-trim from last given manual input indefinitely. In other words, you can point the plane in some given direction and then just leave your post, the plane will keep steady on that heading automatically.
- The 777's computer has an "alternate airport function" which at any time shows at least four of the closest suitable airports for landing. It takes two button pushes for the plane to navigate automatically and directly to the selected airport.
- There is a magnetic compass mounted on the front windshield frame in the 777's cockpit; even if everything on the plane fails, this compass will continue showing heading.
This means there are all kinds of options for the plane to conduct what appears to be normal, level flight even if the crew hasn't attended to the controls in huge spans of time. Meaning the plane would make strange heading changes, head off in odd directions, but would otherwise fly normally, if you had a situation where a crew member ran into the cockpit, made a quick destination/heading decision, oriented the plane that way, then abandoned post again.
More pertinent pieces:
- The 777's autopilot will not allow you to set an altitude anywhere near the service ceiling, so if the 45,000 ft data is correct, it was a maneuver done specifically by hand.
- Climbing to an aircraft's service ceiling for an internal fire would do nothing, since the interior is always pressurized regardless of altitude.
- The oxygen masks in the passenger compartment mix both cabin air and stored oxygen, this is why the crew has the option to prevent them from falling - if there's smoke in the passenger area, the masks would just provide more smoke-filled air. Only the cockpit masks provide 100% stored oxygen, using special masks that seal completely and provide goggles for the eyes.
One more key bit:
- The NTSB reported the plane was carrying an unusually large shipment of Lithium Ion batteries.
This is not referring to the Li-ions that are part of the cockpit hardware, this means there were cases of packaged, commercial batteries in the cargo hold. The cargo hold has its own fire suppression system, however it cannot necessarily prevent smoke/fumes from entering the passenger area.
SO
Putting all this together - The plane is flying normally on-course, the crew is mindfully entering alternate emergency courses along the way just in case. Everything is fine as of the "good night" transmission, then shortly after that, the cargo hold goes off like a road flare - the crew immediately selects the alternate course then rushes back into the cabin to calm/assist passengers and try to suppress smoke/fumes; the idea is to quickly resolve the smoke problem in the cabin and ensure order, then worry about communicating. But if this is a Li-ion fire, it's not just smoke, it's toxic fumes; there's going to be people at the very least complaining of dizziness and ill, and you can't use the oxygen drop-masks because they'd just be providing the same air. So it's a complete catastrophe in the passenger cabin of people suffocating and fainting, probably with plenty of smoke thrown in, and even if the cargo fire system worked, there's no guarantee the fire will remain out since whatever batteries didn't burn at first might burn later. The crew is doing frantic damage control with the passengers for long stretches of time, only occasionally returning to the cockpit to check and correct heading as needed (though there may not be a fully functional computer system at this point, so it may not be anything more involved than guessing current location versus where the nearest airport should be, then using the rudimentary compass to point that direction in the dark.) After a few course corrections, the service ceiling maneuver is attempted to put out the external fire using thin air, however the steep dive at the end would hint that there were no longer any passengers to worry about. The last control input points the plane towards an airport to the south, and the crew succumbs shortly after, the plane following the final command until fuel ran out.
Edit: This is going to be a js-length post, so bear with me, I've run through some goldmines of data and have come up with all this. The electrical fire idea, which has come to be known as the Goodfellow Theory (named after the guy who posited it on Google Plus) is refined considerably by a comment posted over on Slate:
So all the radar data is questionable, not just the altitude anomalies. But there's a good chance the programming of the left turn was just something routine which was then executed after things became un-routine - that would explain why everything was fine on the radio 12 minutes after programming, and then the turn was taken after communication was lost, because the event that necessitated the emergency turn also prevented communication.
Another bit of info from a Slate commenter:
So shortly after the "good night" transmission, the turn indicates that something happened that prevented further communication, either because of equipment failure or the crew was otherwise too occupied.
Now we add in some other bits of info:
- You don't need autopilot for the plane to continue level flight in any given direction, it can auto-trim from last given manual input indefinitely. In other words, you can point the plane in some given direction and then just leave your post, the plane will keep steady on that heading automatically.
- The 777's computer has an "alternate airport function" which at any time shows at least four of the closest suitable airports for landing. It takes two button pushes for the plane to navigate automatically and directly to the selected airport.
- There is a magnetic compass mounted on the front windshield frame in the 777's cockpit; even if everything on the plane fails, this compass will continue showing heading.
This means there are all kinds of options for the plane to conduct what appears to be normal, level flight even if the crew hasn't attended to the controls in huge spans of time. Meaning the plane would make strange heading changes, head off in odd directions, but would otherwise fly normally, if you had a situation where a crew member ran into the cockpit, made a quick destination/heading decision, oriented the plane that way, then abandoned post again.
More pertinent pieces:
- The 777's autopilot will not allow you to set an altitude anywhere near the service ceiling, so if the 45,000 ft data is correct, it was a maneuver done specifically by hand.
- Climbing to an aircraft's service ceiling for an internal fire would do nothing, since the interior is always pressurized regardless of altitude.
- The oxygen masks in the passenger compartment mix both cabin air and stored oxygen, this is why the crew has the option to prevent them from falling - if there's smoke in the passenger area, the masks would just provide more smoke-filled air. Only the cockpit masks provide 100% stored oxygen, using special masks that seal completely and provide goggles for the eyes.
One more key bit:
- The NTSB reported the plane was carrying an unusually large shipment of Lithium Ion batteries.
This is not referring to the Li-ions that are part of the cockpit hardware, this means there were cases of packaged, commercial batteries in the cargo hold. The cargo hold has its own fire suppression system, however it cannot necessarily prevent smoke/fumes from entering the passenger area.
SO
Putting all this together - The plane is flying normally on-course, the crew is mindfully entering alternate emergency courses along the way just in case. Everything is fine as of the "good night" transmission, then shortly after that, the cargo hold goes off like a road flare - the crew immediately selects the alternate course then rushes back into the cabin to calm/assist passengers and try to suppress smoke/fumes; the idea is to quickly resolve the smoke problem in the cabin and ensure order, then worry about communicating. But if this is a Li-ion fire, it's not just smoke, it's toxic fumes; there's going to be people at the very least complaining of dizziness and ill, and you can't use the oxygen drop-masks because they'd just be providing the same air. So it's a complete catastrophe in the passenger cabin of people suffocating and fainting, probably with plenty of smoke thrown in, and even if the cargo fire system worked, there's no guarantee the fire will remain out since whatever batteries didn't burn at first might burn later. The crew is doing frantic damage control with the passengers for long stretches of time, only occasionally returning to the cockpit to check and correct heading as needed (though there may not be a fully functional computer system at this point, so it may not be anything more involved than guessing current location versus where the nearest airport should be, then using the rudimentary compass to point that direction in the dark.) After a few course corrections, the service ceiling maneuver is attempted to put out the external fire using thin air, however the steep dive at the end would hint that there were no longer any passengers to worry about. The last control input points the plane towards an airport to the south, and the crew succumbs shortly after, the plane following the final command until fuel ran out.
Last edited:
I'm NOT leaning towards a highjacking for ransom. because i can't see any point in waiting this long without any kinda word. I would think that if if someone was holding them for ransom they would have made their demands known by now.
I may sound ridiculous, but I still have hope the plane did not crash. If it had crashed, how come so many developed countries, using whatnot technology, haven't been able to find a single piece? Nobody saw that plane? It just disappeared. Not that a possible hijacking explains where the huge machine disappeared, but if it had crashed, there should've been some trace. Though, if hijacked, is it possible to cover the traces?
antoninodattola
Newly Enlightened
I believe that governments know the reality, and keep hidden when the information!
in 2014 is not possible, find a plane like that, and I do not think you can turn off all the mechanisms of detection!
the black box, in the event of an accident, should have gps turned on for many hours, and radio communications, for the finding, is not it?
in 2014 is not possible, find a plane like that, and I do not think you can turn off all the mechanisms of detection!
the black box, in the event of an accident, should have gps turned on for many hours, and radio communications, for the finding, is not it?
