They do, but they're much easier to put out.
More EV fires after salt water flooding
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mrfixitman
Enlightened
Easy for who. It's like napalm. With batteries they give you a warning. Australia's Department of Defense researched the same question and found that "there was a 0.0012% chance of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire, compared with a 0.1% chance for internal combustion engine cars." That's 83 times more likely that gas will burn.
raggie33
*the raggedier*
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Plus gas can leak all over a garage then something can ignite it
raggie33
*the raggedier*
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Btw I'm out lol. This conversation will only upset my fellows cpf friends and do nothing to change minds, my time will be better off yelling at clouds
So, you have fought fires?
Have you ever fought an ICE vehicle fire?
Have you ever fought an EV fire?
Are you a Firefighter?
What is your knowledge base to make any judgements about which vehicle fire is easier to put out?
raggie33
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ive learned fire fighting in coast guard boot camp. but i forgot all of it lol
mrfixitman
Enlightened
I do care that people drive cancer spreading vehicles, however I am more concerned when falsehoods about electricity is spread. I have to lay out the truth based on fact, as opposed to fear represented by myth. People didn't like smog tests and vehicle inspections, however you complied. But the Diesel Brothers cheated. Fined $800k. Audi, Mercedes, VW, they all cheated. People cheat. That is why I have decided to go away from fossil fuels. I have been transitioning for decades. During the pandemic turned off the gas, got electric space heaters, induction cooking and heat pump clothes dryer. You can have your dependable Japanese vehicles and bend over to ExxonMobil. You know what to expect. Here are my facts: Electric has the lowest cost of maintenance. You can make your own fuel. You don't poison anyone. Just as a matter of common sense one should do the math and see if cleaning up the environment is affordable. At $550.00 a year "for my family" I have found this to be true. 83 gas fires to 1 electric fire. Another good reason.
Speaking of facts, how about you answer the questions I asked you.
5 very simple questions, it really isn't that difficult.
The number of ice vehicle fires reduces more and more as Ford Pinto's are sent to the scrap yard.
I had dinner with the fire chief for the local airport's fire department earlier this year. Lithium battery fires were a large topic of discussion, especially as it pertains to aviation and airports. They've already had TWO lithium battery fires *on board passenger aircraft* in as many years.
At present, there simply aren't good ways to deal with lithium battery fires. It's an extremely dense source of energy, and is pretty unstable compared to other battery types.
He (and others at the table) say it's only a matter of time before an airliner gets brought down because of this. The key, for now, is keeping anything with a lithium battery in the cabin where it can be detected and dealt with. If it happens in the cargo hold of a passenger airliner, it's not going to end well.
Similarly, the airport's parking garages are relatively new and have fire sprinklers, but they're not going to do much of anything if an EV catches on fire.
Here's 49 pages of lithium battery problems reported to the FAA: https://www.governmentattic.org/52docs/FAAlithiumBattAirIncidents2023.pdf
At present, there simply aren't good ways to deal with lithium battery fires. It's an extremely dense source of energy, and is pretty unstable compared to other battery types.
He (and others at the table) say it's only a matter of time before an airliner gets brought down because of this. The key, for now, is keeping anything with a lithium battery in the cabin where it can be detected and dealt with. If it happens in the cargo hold of a passenger airliner, it's not going to end well.
Similarly, the airport's parking garages are relatively new and have fire sprinklers, but they're not going to do much of anything if an EV catches on fire.
Here's 49 pages of lithium battery problems reported to the FAA: https://www.governmentattic.org/52docs/FAAlithiumBattAirIncidents2023.pdf
You would think that CO2 would work better than water. It doesn't conduct electricity and it will lower the temperature.
I watched a presentation from Siemens in Europe where they developed a misting sprinkler system for use in parking garages and caught an EV on fire and the system stopped the fire from doing damage to the vehicles parked directly next to it on both sides. It was started by heat, not by salt water.
It would be interesting to watch them do it again with salt water.
I watched a presentation from Siemens in Europe where they developed a misting sprinkler system for use in parking garages and caught an EV on fire and the system stopped the fire from doing damage to the vehicles parked directly next to it on both sides. It was started by heat, not by salt water.
It would be interesting to watch them do it again with salt water.
Where would someone get and store enough CO2 for that? The Economy parking garage at Tampa International Airport (TPA) is ~4,860,000 sqft total, approx 800,000 sqft per floor. That's just one of three garages there.
The scary part is that the main terminal has 5 levels of cars parked on its roof. 3,500 spaces, with a ceiling height of 7' at most. Imagine if a Luton Airport-type fire happened there, and Luton only had 1,300 cars parked with much taller ceilings. Here, there would be deaths and due to the hub-and-spoke design of the airport, the entire airport would be closed for probably a month or more.
At the dinner with the fire chief, the idea of an EV catching on fire in a skyscraper garage seemed to be a real problem. No way to vent the toxic gasses outside fast enough, so they'd end up getting into elevators and stairwells. Likewise, no way to access the fire from outside, and the risk that the building's supports would be compromised by heat. Would you send your men into a situation like that?
mrfixitman
Enlightened
Toulouse42
Enlightened
All truly frightening. Thank you for posting, especially that you're posting the experiences of someone who actually fights fires IRL, not in his dreams. Ironic of course that CO2 is the boogy man of the moment.
mrfixitman
Enlightened
I trust this Aussie over the over reactive firefighter...or is he involved in junior theater?
I think you would argue that the moon was made of cheese if you were told to.....it's pretty obvious that the present power that drives EV's is in its infancy, and could be very dangerous if not assembled or treated correctly. There are a myriad of problems from charging, to disposal to fire risk and pollution due to production, which need to be sorted out prior to your utopian vision of motoring.
Oh and gasoline although a constituent of napalm, doesn't behave in remotely the same way. Just stop with your flawed pro green agenda.
Sorry, I was talking about CO2 for firefighters for one car. Don't the portable fire extinguishers use CO2?
Has there been anything that suggests a chain reaction?
Most parking garages aren't enclosed, they have openings to the exterior.
I think you'd have a similar problem with Carbon Monoxide if you enclosed a parking garage. If it's enclosed, you probably need to install a ventilation fan.
From that one story where the guy on CPF had a battery venting issue and had problems from breathing it in, I thought he said that rechargeable batteries didn't have the toxic gas issues that primary batteries have.
I think there is a lot of misinformation about lithium batteries going around. I've been wondering why they aren't using safe chemistry lithium batteries in vehicles? Just because they will have reduced range?
I didn't ask for you to post a video, I asked you 5 questions.
Is it really that difficult to answer the questions I asked?
