The Malkoff Front Porch

[Schokokeks]

All I know is the Ti runs coming in the future, but even at that, I don’t know if I can justify those prices just because it’s Ti

Give me a full Ti MDC CR123 3 mode in SW45k and I’ll be done forever

I have only one light in titanium. I don't really get the appeal.

It's light, sure, but not THAT much lighter than aluminum, or at least, not enough to justify the delta in cost.
Also, the thermal properties are hot garbage with titanium.
In my eyes, stainless steel is the option if you want an "extra durable" option. WAY cheaper, WAY nicer threads, pretty hard, and similarly trash thermal properties. In an Eneloop light, the bad thermal properties are okay, but I'd never run a Li-ion with it.

Then again, Malkoff uses good aluminum with an excellent anodization. His lights hold up so much better than Chinese aluminum and anodization. So, it makes less sense.

 

[Monocrom]

Titanium lights are for personal enjoyment. That's it.
Aluminum is superior in the use of flashlights in every single way over Titanium.

 

[fwafwow]

I BEG EVERYONE HERE, if you like the M31, please ask Kosen to give us a sweet low mode M31. Illumn is out on their low mode ones, and when I asked them, it sounds like they may not get more (as the minimum order is 25 modules of EACH kind from Malkoff).

I currently have an M31L and M31W running on either two AA's, or a single one. The best part of the M31L or M31LL(L)(L) is that they work well with either 1 or 2 AA cells (the M31L and M31 run at a MUCH lower output, but M31LL and lower run normally with both, IIRC).

Honestly, I'd be really pumped to get like an M61NLLLL from Kosen, too. You can get down to an M61LL from Gene (about 80 lumens for the N or W), and those are AMAZING. I keep an M61WLL and M61NLL in a 16340 body with a VME. They're just...so good.

I’m going to have to look into these, aren’t I?

 

[fwafwow]

I'm waiting for AA MDC in SST-20 Deep Red, and then an Amber - maybe LMH in an M61?

I talked to Kosen, and he said he's considering deep red and/or amber. He's just not sure the configuration. If anyone else is interested, maybe reach out and give him your thoughts. I think because red is best at lower levels, the MDC AA makes a lot of sense.

I just emailed Stephen to express my interest in a red MDC AA.

 

[Schokokeks]

Titanium lights are for personal enjoyment. That's it.
Aluminum is superior in the use of flashlights in every single way over Titanium.

Is it just, "Ooooh, shiny!"? I'm not sure what you mean.
I always saw people extolling the lightweight aspects, and whenever I look into titanium versions, I'm surprised at how minimal the differences are from aluminum. Then again, I like in the world of AA and AAA, so...everything is relatively small and lightweight, even if in brass, haha.

I’m going to have to look into these, aren’t I?

It's a really weird rabbit hole. They only work with <3V cells, so if you love NiMH, Alkaline, lithium primary, or lithium iron, they're pretty fun. 2xAA setups are maybe the most interesting with them.

I just emailed Stephen to express my interest in a red MDC AA.

Awesome. I REALLY think an MDC AA with those perfect modes (albeit lower, cause red) would be absolutely amazing in red. The ultimate "taking a pee at 2 A.M." setup, hahaha.

 

[Monocrom]

Is it just, "Ooooh, shiny!"? I'm not sure what you mean.
I always saw people extolling the lightweight aspects, and whenever I look into titanium versions, I'm surprised at how minimal the differences are from aluminum. Then again, I like in the world of AA and AAA, so...everything is relatively small and lightweight, even if in brass, haha.

Ironically, there are non-shiny Ti lights out there. But yeah, it's mostly the "Ooooh shiny!" factor. Same thing with diamonds. Other than certain medical instrument applications, they are just shiny, cut rocks. Women love how they shine and sparkle. The Diamond trade is very much controlled. They're actually common as dirt! But the supply to consumers is artificially kept very low. Doesn't exceed Demand. Thus, prices are right up there.

Aluminum is just as light-weight as Ti. But so much better for heat dissipation, and is much easier to work with when creating bodies and bezels. The lights are cheaper too.

 

[Lemurian]

Just ordered a AA Kosen 5000K. Orange ring. Exciting stuff. I like to barbecue at night, camping. Color is important. Someone was pushing this one. It's all your fault!

Seriously, cool stuff. My third Kosen, so I say gracias, frendos!

 

[dc38]

I have only one light in titanium. I don't really get the appeal.

It's light, sure, but not THAT much lighter than aluminum, or at least, not enough to justify the delta in cost.
Also, the thermal properties are hot garbage with titanium.
In my eyes, stainless steel is the option if you want an "extra durable" option. WAY cheaper, WAY nicer threads, pretty hard, and similarly trash thermal properties. In an Eneloop light, the bad thermal properties are okay, but I'd never run a Li-ion with it.

Then again, Malkoff uses good aluminum with an excellent anodization. His lights hold up so much better than Chinese aluminum and anodization. So, it makes less sense.

For the most part, if 2 identically dimensioned lights are using titanium vs. Aluminum, the titanium light will weigh more. The beauty of titanium is if the manufacturer decides to thin it out so the STRENGTH of the piece is the same as the standard aluminum version.

However, conductivity is higher in Al alloys than Ti, but the Ti will take a beating and be more corrosion resistant. In my opinion, the only times you might need a Ti anything is to replace steel in highly corrosive environments, or to reduce the weight of something for ease of carry i.e. watches and knives. Maybe some surgical stuff too. Overall though, Ti just has the cool factor of what is basically the most physically advanced naturally existing elemental metal on the periodic table.

 

[Schokokeks]

Ironically, there are non-shiny Ti lights out there. But yeah, it's mostly the "Ooooh shiny!" factor. Same thing with diamonds. Other than certain medical instrument applications, they are just shiny, cut rocks. Women love how they shine and sparkle. The Diamond trade is very much controlled. They're actually common as dirt! But the supply to consumers is artificially kept very low. Doesn't exceed Demand. Thus, prices are right up there.

Aluminum is just as light-weight as Ti. But so much better for heat dissipation, and is much easier to work with when creating bodies and bezels. The lights are cheaper too.

For the most part, if 2 identically dimensioned lights are using titanium vs. Aluminum, the titanium light will weigh more. The beauty of titanium is if the manufacturer decides to thin it out so the STRENGTH of the piece is the same as the standard aluminum version.

However, conductivity is higher in Al alloys than Ti, but the Ti will take a beating and be more corrosion resistant. In my opinion, the only times you might need a Ti anything is to replace steel in highly corrosive environments, or to reduce the weight of something for ease of carry i.e. watches and knives. Maybe some surgical stuff too. Overall though, Ti just has the cool factor of what is basically the most physically advanced naturally existing elemental metal on the periodic table.

I absolutely love the milquetoast endorsements of titanium, haha.

Teasing aside, I'm glad I wasn't missing some glaring advantage. It always seemed subpar to me, and I never wanted to pay the premium. I finally found one to try (Eagtac D3A), and it gets even hotter than I expected, and I'm just running an Eneloop in it. I knew the thermal performance was going to be bad, but I've never had a light get so hot...running just an Eneloop.

Before that, the only non-aluminum lights I have are Peak Eigers in stainless. Those aren't crazy bright, and they run just fine without getting more than mildly warm. I have a stainless pen light, and on an Eneloop, that is about the same. Thing is awful with a 10440.

I always got the strong impression that the durability claim was mostly only true compared to cheap, Chinese aluminum lights. Proper alloys used by US made brands anodize really well (and US companies seem to always do a much, much better job with surface finishes), and that finish is really durable (with hardness above stainless steels and titanium). If anyone of you are into guns, you know how famously Chinesium "mil-spec" aluminum anodization just wears off after the first use, while the good stuff holds up shockingly well. I have some old (bought ~25 years ago) anodized aluminum pans by Calphalon. Made in Ohio. Those things still look brand new. Stainless utensils will "scratch" that surface exactly like how graphite pencils work; it deposits a smear across the surface. Malkoff anodizing always felt more like the kind of Calphalon than on cheap Chinese gun parts, haha. My peak El Capitan is anodized, and it just rolls around on my desk, smacking into things all the time. Not a single blemish. We won't talk about the finish on my anodized Chinese lights, hahaha.

That's where the titanium Malkoff has me confused. That's a lot of money, and I've never felt the Malkoff finish wasn't durable or lacking. Looking at my very oldest Malkoff (MDC AA, somewhere on the better half of 7-10 years old), and I have one small area on the bezel that maybe has some finish wear from being placed down.

Now, if you want me to spend a few hundred for a shiny metal, let's talk about Zirconium, haha. That makes COOL LOOKING flashlights, haha.

 

[aznsx]

6061-T6 Aluminum :: MakeItFrom.com

www.makeitfrom.com

Grade 5 (Ti-6Al-4V, 3.7165, R56400) Titanium :: MakeItFrom.com

www.makeitfrom.com

 

[ledbetter]

Don McCleish of McGizmo had a great essay on the attributes of titanium in lights here on this forum years ago. Don’t know if it’s still in the archive somewhere.

 

[Schokokeks]

6061-T6 Aluminum :: MakeItFrom.com

www.makeitfrom.com

Grade 5 (Ti-6Al-4V, 3.7165, R56400) Titanium :: MakeItFrom.com

www.makeitfrom.com

Is there anything you'd like to call particular attention to?

If there's any properties you'd like to draw attention to, that you feel have particular importance to the discussion, that would be great.

Don McCleish of McGizmo had a great essay on the attributes of titanium in lights here on this forum years ago. Don’t know if it’s still in the archive somewhere.

Post a link if you can find it. I'd be curious.

THOUGH, I have a feeling that would all be relevant to the fact that, several years ago, lights were all pretty low powered. I do think for something like his Sapphire, titanium makes a lot of sense. It's not really generating much heat, so the terrible thermal properties aren't as relevant as light weight, corrosion and scratch resistance. But, at a certain point with flashlights, heat dissipation becomes the bottleneck for performance. I'm not sure how often the other factors are going to be the bottle neck in the balance of "good enough" vs. "important."

 

[dc38]

I absolutely love the milquetoast endorsements of titanium, haha.

Teasing aside, I'm glad I wasn't missing some glaring advantage. It always seemed subpar to me, and I never wanted to pay the premium. I finally found one to try (Eagtac D3A), and it gets even hotter than I expected, and I'm just running an Eneloop in it. I knew the thermal performance was going to be bad, but I've never had a light get so hot...running just an Eneloop.

Before that, the only non-aluminum lights I have are Peak Eigers in stainless. Those aren't crazy bright, and they run just fine without getting more than mildly warm. I have a stainless pen light, and on an Eneloop, that is about the same. Thing is awful with a 10440.

I always got the strong impression that the durability claim was mostly only true compared to cheap, Chinese aluminum lights. Proper alloys used by US made brands anodize really well (and US companies seem to always do a much, much better job with surface finishes), and that finish is really durable (with hardness above stainless steels and titanium). If anyone of you are into guns, you know how famously Chinesium "mil-spec" aluminum anodization just wears off after the first use, while the good stuff holds up shockingly well. I have some old (bought ~25 years ago) anodized aluminum pans by Calphalon. Made in Ohio. Those things still look brand new. Stainless utensils will "scratch" that surface exactly like how graphite pencils work; it deposits a smear across the surface. Malkoff anodizing always felt more like the kind of Calphalon than on cheap Chinese gun parts, haha. My peak El Capitan is anodized, and it just rolls around on my desk, smacking into things all the time. Not a single blemish. We won't talk about the finish on my anodized Chinese lights, hahaha.

That's where the titanium Malkoff has me confused. That's a lot of money, and I've never felt the Malkoff finish wasn't durable or lacking. Looking at my very oldest Malkoff (MDC AA, somewhere on the better half of 7-10 years old), and I have one small area on the bezel that maybe has some finish wear from being placed down.

Now, if you want me to spend a few hundred for a shiny metal, let's talk about Zirconium, haha. That makes COOL LOOKING flashlights, haha.

i mean, I'd love to have a flashlight that showcased all the benefits of titanium rather than all the drawbacks, lol...make it thin, make it light, that kind of thing. Bring back Gatlight stylizations and showcase the strength of a titanium skeleton with copper heatsinking, that kind of thing...although, there might be some unwanted alloying of the metals, I don't remember what the term is called, but certain metal alloys will actually corrode when in contact with other metals and alloys, something about the ions jumping around.

**one of my most carried lights for a while was my 4sevens limited titanium mule aaa...with a lithium primary, that baby was LIGHT and SMALL, possibky one of the lightest (hah pun) lights around. The LED is a little finicky now, sometimes turning on, sometimes not....in any case, i still have it, and intend on bringing it back to life soon.

 

[Schokokeks]

i mean, I'd love to have a flashlight that showcased all the benefits of titanium rather than all the drawbacks, lol...make it thin, make it light, that kind of thing. Bring back Gatlight stylizations and showcase the strength of a titanium skeleton with copper heatsinking, that kind of thing...although, there might be some unwanted alloying of the metals, I don't remember what the term is called, but certain metal alloys will actually corrode when in contact with other metals and alloys, something about the ions jumping around.

**one of my most carried lights for a while was my 4sevens limited titanium mule aaa...with a lithium primary, that baby was LIGHT and SMALL, possibky one of the lightest (hah pun) lights around. The LED is a little finicky now, sometimes turning on, sometimes not....in any case, i still have it, and intend on bringing it back to life soon.

Galvanic corrosion. Yeah, that always ruins the fun of multi-metal projects, haha.

I think the catch-22 with titanium is, the thinner it is, the even less it can absorb heat, haha. So, they just get hot, even faster.

It just seems like titanium has niche use case advantages, but the BIGGEST hurdle with lights is dissipating heat (or, at least, sinking the heat), so anodized aluminum seems to be the overall best compromise of that ability and weight and durability. I mean, even with Chinesium aluminum, they tend to look like trash pretty quickly as the anodization is a joke...but they keep working just fine.

If people want to buy it BECAUSE it's expensive and exclusive, then so be it. It just seems like, out side of the "gee whiz" factor, there isn't a lot going in favor for titanium in this application. I mean, I think most of my small lights, the battery weighs more than the aluminum body.

Let's not also bring up those brittle, gross titanium threads, hahahaha. I think it took me maybe handling about a dozen titanium products before I finally just accepted the material inherently won't have nice threads (kind of like, in opposition, brass threads are always buttery).

 

[dc38]

Let's not also bring up those brittle, gross titanium threads, hahahaha. I think it took me maybe handling about a dozen titanium products before I finally just accepted the material inherently won't have nice threads (kind of like, in opposition, brass threads are always buttery).

THe grindy, chippy, eggshellish threads, lol...they get better if you hit them with super polishing compound and work the threads with the other threads...then hit it with a slightly thicker grease like gpl205. After cleaning them off, of course.

**titanium is for tools, not jewels.

 

[ilikeguns40]

I prefer the raw look of Ti. Has a unique tint over SS and raw aluminum. Don’t have to worry about HA coatings chipping and wearing away either.

 

[Monocrom]

THe grindy, chippy, eggshellish threads, lol...they get better if you hit them with super polishing compound and work the threads with the other threads...then hit it with a slightly thicker grease like gpl205. After cleaning them off, of course.

**titanium is for tools, not jewels.

Oh yeah, forgot that big disadvantage.... galling.
Ti threads are horrendous!

 

[Schokokeks]

Oh yeah, forgot that big disadvantage.... galling.
Ti threads are horrendous!

I always thought people were exaggerating about this. "C'mon, how bad could it be...? Oh...wow...wait, seriously?!"

It's not a pleasant experience. I have to chuckle at how many titanium lights with a twisty action I've seen, too, haha.

 

[Monocrom]

I'll buy any Ti light.... as long as it has a tailcap switch.

 

[dc38]

Ya'll are uncultured...you gotta have a MAN'S light, if it ain't gritty like a pepper grinder, it ain't a light.