The Nightsword project

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Great observations and questions...

The last set of beamshots were in the city of Amherst, NY, and the clouds had an orange glow to them from the city lights. The first beamshots in this thread were in Lockport, NY, a small town away from the big city. So the clouds were only partially illuminated by the white moon light.

The camera was on a tripod mounted 100 feet from the vertical beam. When gazing at the beam in the clouds, you are pretty much directly under the beam even when you're 100 feet from it. As such, all of the reflections of the beam upon the various layers of cloud depths appear a single spot like on a wall. If you drive down the road away from the light, you begin to see the beam through the clouds at more of an angle, at which point the length of the beam through the clouds is seen with various intensities through the various densities of the cloud layers.
 
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A good example of the spot vs density layering is in the NYC Tribute in Light. From directly underneath...
WTC%20Tribute%20in%20Light%20%231.jpg

http://photo.mish.net/2006/09/wtc-tribute-in-light-1.php

From the side...
319302_2383197459325_1317726079_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...363.-2207520000.1393574689.&type=3&permPage=1
 
Good news regarding touch panels. Another company has responded and they already have tooling for the ideal size I need size. Minimum order quantity is 2000 units but price is great. Waiting to hear back to see if they can make them with thicker glass or hardened glass treatment.
 
Yes I forgot about that Onestep. I will have to find out the cycle time for determining the lamp life here. For instance, if the cycle time is 2 hours, it would mean the lamp life is 1000 hours including 500 ignitions, and each additional ignition beyond 500 ignitions would reduce lamp life below 1000 hours by a certain amount of time. I will look into this and can make the controller calculate remaining lamp life based on the recorded runtime and ignitions for a lamp. Temperature will not fluctuate because the fan will maintain constant temp with a closed loop control using a single air flow-meter/temp combo sensor. The only remaining factor is if the user does not align the retro-reflector and it happens to be reflecting the light back onto one of the electrodes. If it were redirecting the light directly onto one of the electrodes, lamp life would probably be reduced by 25%. This is something I will have to test "down the road".
 
So anyways, you gave an explanation as to the layering of atmosphere from angle of the observer in great detail, which can explain a general "spot", but then you just post more photos of other people's beamshots. Which, who know's the circumstances of those photos and their relevance?

Where are the photos of your prototype light, that made the beam shots? I guess it's strange that there are plenty of beamshots, but I didn't see a single prototype light built anywhere. Where is the prototype light at? Are you possibly making this into a pipe dream? Wireless control, bluetooth, touch panels? You have CAD drawings so far that can't be produced because of your funds, what kind of person would keep adding things that ensure they never actually produce, well, anything besides CAD drawings? You need a working light. You don't need biometric fingerprint encryption and remote access from a VLAN to throw lumens. If it's a project, you move in steps to build, not merely steps to imagine more things you wish you could build but know are far too expensive to ever do. Sorry, I'm just seeing 35 pages of a project that is no more than a dream. You can't seem to hold yourself still and make something, it's always a new idea, but no progress. I have to play devils advocate, because sometimes you may need to check yourself, ask, are you really developing anything at all, or just adding complex ideas to barrier your production entirely? Carbon fiber molding...I used to mold carbon rocket parts for large motor rockets--you producing that bike crank is most likely out of your production abilities. If I were you, I would analyze immediately what you can't do now, say hey, I realized I took this idea too far, and change the design to be building this light out of steps of milled aluminum at 1/10 the price, if you can't produce a carbon example product this far (years) into your journeys.

My half a penny, take a project in steps that actually get completed.
 
Most your questions are answered in the thread but I'll do my best to help here..

So anyways, you gave an explanation as to the layering of atmosphere from angle of the observer in great detail, which can explain a general "spot", but then you just post more photos of other people's beamshots. Which, who know's the circumstances of those photos and their relevance?

I did not say nor imply the intensity of the light in this project is like those shots. I could have chosen any beam to illustrate the difference in seeing the beam in the clouds from straight underneath and from the side, but I chose those beams because it is the Tribute in Light at WTC in NYC. Being the most well known light display in the world, it is the easiest for most other people to relate to. I also did not "just" post the beams to illustrate the answer to what you were asking, I also thoroughly explained it as well. I actually did not need to post any beams with the explanation. I did it for you to see the for yourself the affect. Since you are unable to see this common phenomenon first hand, the sole relevance of the beam pics here is to show you the effect in pictures. For the purpose of helping you to see the difference in viewing a beam in the clouds from underneath versus from the side, I actually did not even need to use a searchlight beam. I could have used a laser beam through fog to show you the effect. From straight on, you see a single spot, while from the side you see layered intensity variation as the laser impinges the various layers of fog intensities. There is no relevance in the photos beyond the illustration of this phenomenon.

Where are the photos of your prototype light, that made the beam shots?

Didn't take any.


I guess it's strange that there are plenty of beamshots, but I didn't see a single prototype light built anywhere.

I explained this in the thread.. there are various prototypes for testing and optimizing the different functions. One for testing and optimizing the actual light output characteristics, several for testing and optimizing the cooling air flow and pressure characteristics, several for testing and optimizing the air/water separation characteristics, two for testing head wind pressure characteristics, several for testing and optimizing the alignment assembly, and probably some others hanging around. There is a lot of discussion regarding many of these assemblies in this thread. I also had posted some photos of some test assemblies for the more visually oriented here to see.


Where is the prototype light at?

Most assemblies are in the downstairs workshop, some are in the garage, some things are even in my bedroom.


Are you possibly making this into a pipe dream? Wireless control, bluetooth, touch panels?

As discussed much in the thread, the last thing I want is for this to be said and done, final costs invested, everything made, assembled lights shipped out, and then come to find it could have been better. I can understand that these features you mention may seem daunting, but these are not difficult for me as a programmer. As with every aspect of the light, I want to get the most out of each component, including the controller board's expandability. As just recently stated, I will not be including all of these three features you ask about, just one of them. Touch panel is the one feature of the three I'm working on because I feel it is the most useful for this application. The other two were options in case I were unable to source the touch panels at a cost that wouldn't much affect affording the completion of the project. I only have so much to spend on this each quarter, and if I could not find a touch panel manufacturer that will allow me to make a purchase of under 5k, I would opt for wireless as a supplemental control feature. As of now, I am making the best progress over the past few days with a new touch panel manufacturer than I have since my initial inquiry to a few dozen manufacturers. Once this is squared away, supplemental control features can be handled through the touch panel, or switched over to remote control via serial connection just as other remote controllable searchlights.

You have CAD drawings so far that can't be produced because of your funds, what kind of person would keep adding things that ensure they never actually produce, well, anything besides CAD drawings?

This is a multi-part question. Also as just recently stated in this thread, I now have funds for completion but am on my last bit of patience in seeking a dependable and affordable touch panel source. I have two panels coming in the mail for testing which I do not expect to work out well for this, and I am working with another manufacturer for something I do expect to work perfect for this. Again these are my last resorts in sourcing touch panels, and if both of these opportunities do not pan out, I will then scrap the touch panel, go with wireless or strictly serial for supplemental control, rebuild the housing in CAD without the touch panel and have the molds made. After the last few hiccups with touch panel manufacturers, I've had to regain my patience for a last ditch effort because I really prefer to not have to go back and rebuild the housing in CAD to make it something less than I had already planned for.

As far as what kind of person does this, well I'm not a psychologist or mental health "expert". To be completely honest I don't give two squats what kind of person does anything they do, nor why they do what they do. As far as I'm concerned, people will do what they will do and I don't care to analyze it or even judge them. I'm also not much interested in meeting any expected social norms, especially considering how quickly today's norms change.

I'm not going to dig into this too deeply but I actually don't think I've actually added much that would delay the project as a result of lack of funding. Much of the time invested was in experimentation, and the design changes resulting from that experimentation. Thus far, the delays due to lack of funding were the result of necessary costs not associated with new features. This is all outlined in the thread. It is many times more expensive to design something to be produced rather than a one off. It also takes all the more work to plan properly for. There's also more involved in the process when it's to be easily worked on beyond initial assembly, and to adopt modern design and construction standards. All of this I had to learn along the way. Even if you really wanted to figure out what kind of person does this, I would have to say a most reasonable person would.


You need a working light.

No. I need working functional prototypes (done), and a fully defined functional plan of assembly (done).


You don't need biometric fingerprint encryption and remote access from a VLAN to throw lumens.

I'm surprised you would think I believe these things are necessary to produce throw. Trust me, I know exactly what it take to produce throw. You need to understand, this project is a collaboration of ideas from many different people. There is absolutely no harm in considering the ideas proposed by others. The only harm in is offending them by shooting them down for their ideas. As far as biometric, I'm not sure how much, if at all, we may have considered biometric. Maybe it was just mentioned when we were assessing an access control feature for safety. Access control is imperative. Children are curious, especially about something new and different, and they will find a way to get their grubs on it behind your back. And they will hurt themselves, likely permanently. Not on my watch. Also not sure how much, if at all, we may have considered VLAN. I'm fairly certain it was never more than a fleeting thought for me along the way. Serial accomplishes the same thing in a much more universal form.


If it's a project, you move in steps to build, not merely steps to imagine more things you wish you could build but know are far too expensive to ever do.

Again, the features have not added much to expense, definitely not to the point of delaying the project due to expense. A significant consideration is that since the major components cost thousands of dollars, why not take the effort to include features that best take advantage of those costly components while not significantly adding to the cost. This also was explained in the thread.


Sorry, I'm just seeing 35 pages of a project that is no more than a dream.

You need to read the thread, and you will see much more than just 35 pages. Most applicable to your concern this may be nothing more than a dream, are the particular discussions within the thread regarding the steps taken to identify issues and how to best address them. If you were to read from beginning to end, you will see an ongoing progression through the issues with unwavering perseverance toward the end goal.


You can't seem to hold yourself still and make something, it's always a new idea, but no progress.

No progress? No offense by this, but you've just pulled off the single most ignorant statement in this entire thread.


I have to play devils advocate, because sometimes you may need to check yourself, ask, are you really developing anything at all, or just adding complex ideas to barrier your production entirely?

What may seem overly complex to you thus far is surely not for me. You're making the mistake of assuming that if something seems too difficult for you, it is too difficult for anyone. For me, it has not even yet gotten past fun.


Carbon fiber molding...I used to mold carbon rocket parts for large motor rockets--you producing that bike crank is most likely out of your production abilities. If I were you, I would analyze immediately what you can't do now, say hey, I realized I took this idea too far, and change the design to be building this light out of steps of milled aluminum at 1/10 the price, if you can't produce a carbon example product this far (years) into your journeys.

Composites had not held up the project, they helped move it along by a long shot. If you read the thread, you will see that I consider metal housings too dangerous to hold in the hand with 35KV ignition inside. The alternative to a metal housing is plastics. And I can't use thermoplastics because of the heat in the optics housing. I'm also not venturing into injection molding. Not because it's "too complicated" for my meager self, but because it's not cost effective for a production run that would suit this project. Composite laminates are simply the best solution for a number of reasons. First off, they are by far the strongest while being the lightest weight and most durable. They are electrically isolating. Composite laminates are also the most cost effective manufacturing method for production runs on the order of this project. About all of this is covered in the thread. I actually can't think of anything mentioned here that hadn't already been discussed at least once before.

All of the prior years working on this project were primarily involved in learning and pioneering on my own without having the information available to me anywhere. Only relatively recently in the long timeline had construction been worked on, and it's moved along much more quickly than the research and experimentation phases.

Edit - Don't forget I'm making a light that's more powerful than Spectrolab's $25K Nightsun Enhanced SX-16 for a fraction of the cost, in a much more convenient and easy to use hand-held form, with much more weather resistance, 1/6 the weight, consuming half the power, and without having the entire engineering and manufacturing staff and facilities of Boeing.
 
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Just to be clear, I have personally enjoyed this thread and have learned much from it, get-lit. I believe in getting something right the first time and I believe that is what you are doing here and you have included CPF in the process. There are so many variables here that affect one other, nothing is in a vacuum or isolated here. Once you change just one design element, that throws another problem or problems to solve and so on and so forth. Some things in life just take more time than others. This project is complex and the very small details matter. Anyway, keep up the good work.
 
Somebody has to dream sometimes, shoot the Everly Bros even made a song about it.

Get Lit,

Keep dreaming , its good sometimes to put dreams to paper and brainstorm to reality.

China still does Carbon molding on the cheap.

S/F,
CEYA!
 
That's just the point - it's no longer a dream at all, stopped being a dream after the very first beamshot.

I received the pair of sample touch panels from the first of two prospective companies. It's a bit larger than I'd like, but much stronger than I expected for being thin and un-strengthened glass. I managed to break one by applying a mighty amount of force with my thumb. It could do. Still, the other samples coming are the ideal size and 50% thicker as well as being strengthened glass. It will be more durable as a result of the smaller dimensions and thicker glass, and the strengthening makes it 5 times stronger alone. If the ones I have are difficult to break, these next ones should be virtually unbreakable. Minimum order quantity is 2,000 for the ideal ones and I expect to nab them up once I receive the samples.

Selecting connectors for the various components is an unexpected challenge. Among the ballast, DC encoder motor, OLED display, and touch panel, there's 6 specialized connectors that have been very difficult to locate the exact matching connectors. Have to know the connector manufacturer and search through their catalogs of thousands of connectors, and then have to buy them each in bulk.

On a side note, today I realized a method to eliminate 90% of the flood hole making virtually undetectable, but unfortunately that method is not compatible with a retro-reflector, so it's not worth it for this application.
 
Recap... since the costs of the choices made along the way have come into to question, I should review them all so that it's understood why I've opted for them. At issue are the features beyond what may be necessary to produce the light.

DC Encoder Focus Motor
This could be accomplished with a standard DC motor. The Encoder version was chosen to actually simplify the system rather than complicate it. By having Focus position feedback via digital encoder, end-stop positions are electronically determined and no longer have to be accomplished with physically adjustable end-stop components. This greatly simplifies the construction of each light. This is reason enough to justify the use of the encoder. Added benefits include the ability to go to exact focus positions, and much easier focus end-stop adjustment. It also greatly increases motor life because the motor never experiences stoppage at physical end stops.

Retro-Reflector
This is also not necessary but testing has shown for it to improve performance by 40%. This kind of percentage is most definitely worth the effort and cost to implement.

Closed Loop PID Fan
This is absolutely not necessary for Xenon lamps. It is also not necessary for Mercury lamps when the cooling air flows perpendicular to the lamp as intended for Mercury lamps. However, as testing revealed axial orientation produced significantly better performance than perpendicular orientation, critical cooling conditions need to be maintained for the lamp in axial orientation in order to adequately cool the lamp while also not over-cooling the lamp. Closed loop PID maintains the required cooling condition while taking into account air flow restriction due to changes in head wind pressure, air flow restriction due to air filter dust accumulation, air flow variance due to variance in fan performance, and changes in incoming air temperature. Also, a determined minimum air flow must be maintained in order to cool the retro reflector as it will not last ten seconds in the event of the mentioned air flow restrictions.

Enhanced Reflector Coatings

These generally improve performance by 25%. Again, this kind of percentage is worth the effort and cost to implement.

A/R Coated Lens
These lenses generally improve performance by at least 10%. While these many not be worth the cost to implement for low power lights like EDC lights, it is worth the effort here because another 10% equals another 4,700 lumen in the actual beam.

Controller Board
Not necessary for typical scenarios, but required for the closed loop PID fan to enable the greater performance of axial orientation of Mercury lamps. Also necessary for the DC encoder focus motor to simply the alignment assembly construction by eliminating physical the end-top adjustment components, and providing for it's added previously mentioned benefits.

Touch Screen

This is also not necessary. However it is actually much less costly than the alternatives. Waterproof buttons to serve the functions of power, strobe, low power, and a waterproof 2-way focus adjust toggle all come to around $45. They are also heavy as well as too bulky to all fit atop the handle to be controlled under the thumb. A cleaner solution is a waterproof 5-way toggle which costs over $100. On the other hand, a touch screen assembly costs around ten bucks when all said and done. Of course there is the minimum order quantity issue which drives cost up, but it's still much less expensive than implementing a waterproof 5-way toggle. Aside from cost savings and added durability, it consumes several less com pins on the controller board than physical buttons, allowing for additional expandability if desired or if needed. The touch screen can also optionally accommodate the use of a digital display for viewing system checks, logs, and updating system settings. Being able to see where to press in the dark with illuminated buttons also helps.

Digital Display
This is the least required feature and also the most costly non-performance feature, but offers worthwhile benefits for around $60. Since these do not have to be purchased in bulk, implementing this will not significantly add to production cost in a manner which would delay production. How worthwhile for around $60 is questionable for a run of the mill light, but for a light comprised of fixed component costs in the thousands, another $60 is not a huge hit relative to those fixed costs. It's less than a 2% difference. I've chosen to include this because I personally feel the cost is worth it, especially since the CPF version is to be something special.

Ventilation Ducting
Again, not necessary but this greatly improves the versatility of the light by allowing it to be used in any weather condition as well as for marine use in heavy water conditions. It does not significantly add to construction cost and is worthwhile because it makes the light much more versatile than any other forced air ventilated light there is. It also preserves the reflectors by eliminating weather-inducing wear.

RS-232 Serial Control

Definitely not necessary, but since this is fairly common among the better searchlights and costs little to implement, why not include it to accommodate any and all situations.

Dual Stage High Power Fan
Also not necessary, but it is necessary to greatly increase versatility by allowing the light to be used in significant head winds as well off road and marine use. The fan is still much less expensive than the fan used in the Nightsun SX-16, so there's no reason to not include it for the greatly increased versatility it provides here.

EPDM Bezel Seal
Again not necessary for a run of the mill light, but a seal is necessary for a weatherproof light and EPDM lasts at least 10 times longer than standard rubber without deterioration due to UV and ozone from the lamp and costs only marginally more when comparing both as custom cut.

Optical Grade Reflector
I've tested several grades of reflectors and the performance benefit of optical grade reflectors is very clear. There is a reason all searchlights use them.

Mil-Spec Cable Gland and Power Connector

Mil-spec components in general are double the cost, but in the case of cable glands and power connectors, they are only about 25% more. This is a very small price to pay for the most reliable watertight seals and for repeated usage in all conditions.

Gimbal Mounts
This is definitely a light that would benefit most with the ability to gimbal or stand mount the light, and threaded inserts only costs few bucks each so why not.

So what's the bottom line... the net cost of these chosen features, aside from the performance enhancing features and the digital display, ends up breaking even compared to without any of them, because as a whole they are on par with the components they replace.

EDIT - It's understandable that this could be confusing at first, especially since there's so much to take in with this whole dang thread, and there's also some things I'm keeping close to the chest as well which doesn't help.
 
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Don't forget the iridium plated housing and the 365/24/7 get-lit personal onsite tech support costs. :)
 
Quite simply, I wouldn't change anything you've settled upon if I were building this.

Ok it's good to confirm all this before laying down the money.

Don't forget the iridium plated housing and the 365/24/7 get-lit personal onsite tech support costs. :)

No I only use iridium on my sunglasses :cool:


I'm really pushing for the enhanced coating to also be usable on the retro-reflector. I going to have one made with the coating to test with. Chances are it will burn up, but I should be able to enlarge the retro-reflector with the new mandrel to keep the reflector surface further from the lamp to accommodate the coating.
 
If your asking about what the beam looks like, the beam pattern will be the same as the 2nd pic here. That was taken without the retro-reflector, the beam will be about 40% brighter than that with the retro-reflector.

If you're asking about the optics, the setup is just like the AN/VSS-1 tank light.

In a nutshell, the long FL gives a powerful beam because it places the lamp further from the reflector which produces more throw. But being further from the reflector also means less light from the lamp hits the reflector. What the retro-reflector does is recoups that lost light with a spherical reflector which reflects that lost light back to lamp source but in the other direction toward the reflector surface.
 

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