This forum dead or dying?

[IMA SOL MAN]

It's not what it was in the 2007, lol.

Your comment reminds me of this:

 

[NotRegulated]

I am one of those incandescent era members here around 20 years. Nowadays I am here much less than in the "old days" (2000's).

I was drawn here to modify my incandescent work light. It was a Streamlight SL-20. I first started off with the SL-35 bulb then over to JS's SL-60 bulb/reflector setup. (In Incan Geek Talk that is a WelchAllyn 1160 ring-potted lamp installed in modified Carley 1940 MOP reflector.)

I was also a very early adopter of the incan Surefire 6P, 6R and the Streamlight Stinger. The 6p would eat through expensive at the time CR123 batteries and was only used as a backup light. I was always ready to adopt a brighter light for work and was onboard with the advent of the LED dropins. I had the early version of Malkoff's M60 dropin for the 6P which gave me a brighter light with a longer runtime on CR123's. From there the LED advancements seemed to come along continuously. It was an exciting time.

I got into the whole world of Malkoff dropins as they came out for my Surefire 6P's and now still love my Malkoff lights. I put together Malkoff LED drop-in for Surefires Spec List. It was a labor of love. I don't really buy Surefire's anymore but I was a huge fan back in the day when you could LEGO them.

In recent years I have purchased Malkoff Universal Adaptors for incan Maglites and run my older Malkoff dropins in my old Maglites. I like the ability to run the dropins from alkaline batteries even though I have all the latest state of the art lithium-ion Malkoff lights. I was recently reintroduced to the current Gen2 stock Maglite LED lights and came away mildly impressed. The form factor is old school but I ended up buying a few and like them. The new Maglite 2C LED (ML50/ML25) series even uses a single 18650 or 2 alkaline C cells.

Things do not seem to be as exciting anymore with new light development.

It seems that everyone I know uses their cell phone as a light. Even all of the professional repair guys that come to repair something use their cell phone light (some have a headlamp). At least you always have a light on you and I think the light on your cell phone is brighter than the original Maglite incandescent when they first came out!

 

[Schokokeks]

That's why I have (had) two accounts, there was some crazy moderation that didn't understand we are one of the products they are selling.

Not sure why I was concerned, but I was. Now with AI creeping into the forums pretending to be a human, no reason to converse with a robot.

I do worry, longer-term, about sites selling everyone's posts to some "AI" company, since they've already burned through the entirety of human writing up to this point.

IMHO there is less do it yourself in the hobby now. It is more consumer oriented and most of the innovation lately seem to be from China and are not as customizable. Only a few have open source firmware.

Very much this.

For my Li-ion lights, I'm mostly sticking to Malkoff and the P60 ecosystem because it's probably the most customizable part of this hobby left. I don't really love having to buy an entirely new light every time I want a different emitter, etc. Just getting a new drop-in is much better, and then I can switch up the bodies, tailcaps, etc.

It really seems like the days of incandescent lights offered a lot more customization, from what I see in old posts.

 

[newts]

I do worry, longer-term, about sites selling everyone's posts to some "AI" company, since they've already burned through the entirety of human writing up to this point.

Very much this.

For my Li-ion lights, I'm mostly sticking to Malkoff and the P60 ecosystem because it's probably the most customizable part of this hobby left. I don't really love having to buy an entirely new light every time I want a different emitter, etc. Just getting a new drop-in is much better, and then I can switch up the bodies, tailcaps, etc.

It really seems like the days of incandescent lights offered a lot more customization, from what I see in old posts.

Not to sound too critical of buying new stuff I have enjoyed some recent Sofirn and Loop Gear lights.

jv

 

[Schokokeks]

Not to sound too critical of buying new stuff I have enjoyed some recent Sofirn and Loop Gear lights.

jv

Sure. We all still buy the new stuff. It just might not be as fun to mess around with, haha.

I still want Sofirn to bring back the C01S and the HS04. I ordered up a Loop Gear recently, cause they were apparently blowing out their inventory on the AA.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

I want the PRC products banned from importation. It fries me that Americans are sending their money to the PRC instead of buying made in USA products from their countrymen. It seems like such a betrayal. I try to buy as little as possible PRC origin products. I'm hoping Donald will eventually put in place a 100% ban on PRC product importation, but Wall Street is so married to the PRC, it will be quite the endeavor to accomplish.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Once I get all the LED flashlights that I want, I think I'll try doing some of the hotwire modifications chronicled here on CPF. It may be difficult to impossible to do some of them, as I am sure some of the parts used are no longer available. But watching some of the youtube videos of hotwire modded lights gets me motivated to have some.

 

[WarriorOfLight]

At first I will not start a political discussion... :)

I want the PRC products banned from importation. It fries me that Americans are sending their money to the PRC instead of buying made in USA products from their countrymen.

I understand what you are saying and I feel in the same manner, but one example. I own a Fenix LD20 and a Surefire E2L-AA, the Fenix is even a few years older than the Surefire. Both lights are working perfectly until now. The difference is the Fenix was ~$60 the Surefire was ~$150-200 (dont remember exactly but the Surefire was way more expensive than the Fenix).
If you want a well working 2xAA light the Fenix is a really good choice (and yes I love my E2L-AA, and I will not sell it). At the end the user must find out what is a particular product worth. With the Fenix you have ~$100 in the pocket and a well working flashlight.

I try to buy as little as possible PRC origin products.

I do the same, but at least if you are buying electronics like computers, ... there is no way to ship around PRC.

And to come back to the question if the Forum is dying or not. I still say no, but for me the times are gone when a new light had really some new cool ideas. Today it is more the way brighter, even more brighter, much much more brighter (even if the light can hold that brightness only for a small time). It would be cool playing with a Acebeam MS32 ad "full speed", but at least I do not need such light. Therefore I would not invest even one cent for such a light...

When I look on my drawer I see I have all flashlights I need and even I do not need a new lantern.... I do not fear darkness :D

 

[Robocop]

After being away for a while upon my return I found the biggest change was with the custom makers and modding area. In the most active times we had several heavy hitters making some fantastic stuff. There were some amazing lights on here that nothing purchased from average stores could compete with. There were so many interesting things going on and most of the lights "normal" people did not even know of. Members of this forum kept many makers in business simply because the demand was so high and the wow factor could not be found anywhere else.

Fast forward to today and it is hard for a custom maker to compete as there are all kinds of very nice lights available online. I am still one of the enthusiast that will pay top dollar for anything new or interesting however there are hundreds of 30 dollar lights that are crazy good for the price. I do get a little bored with the new stuff at times as there is not much variety however I have found exceptions.

I recently found a quad 18650 light (Noctigon KR4) that also has an 18350 body tube. I went bananas looking at all the driver, optics, and emitter choices available and the website has various titanium body options as well as tritium inserts. I was amazed that as much of a flashaholic as I am that I never saw this light before. I believe it came to about 100 dollars with my options and I was excited to order it. Made me feel a little like the old days so I do believe there is still lots for us to discover and talk about even today.

 

[newts]

I want the PRC products banned from importation. It fries me that Americans are sending their money to the PRC instead of buying made in USA products from their countrymen. It seems like such a betrayal. I try to buy as little as possible PRC origin products. I'm hoping Donald will eventually put in place a 100% ban on PRC product importation, but Wall Street is so married to the PRC, it will be quite the endeavor to accomplish.

I would rather live in a free country with a free market where I can choose what is best for me and not some 2 bit dotard dictator wanna be. Unfortunately we have spent decades killing American manufacturing in favor of walmart and amazon crap from china. If you have electronics related hobby there is next to nothing left. There are occasional group buys and things that are still sourced from China because again that's the only reasonable choice. The few PCB and metalworking vendors left focus on the cash cows like military and don't even bother to compete.

 

[Jean-Luc Descarte]

I want the PRC products banned from importation. It fries me that Americans are sending their money to the PRC instead of buying made in USA products from their countrymen. It seems like such a betrayal. I try to buy as little as possible PRC origin products. I'm hoping Donald will eventually put in place a 100% ban on PRC product importation, but Wall Street is so married to the PRC, it will be quite the endeavor to accomplish.

Yeeeeeah, about that...







(Before any Sinophobic prejudice, mind that Kevin here cites a huge number of Western sources.)

Face it, lads, the USA has thoroughly and irrevocably de-industrialized itself. It'll take decades before any industry renaissance can happen, and that is if the national debt bubble doesn't go supernova first.

 

[DHart]

What happened with me is I ultimately had so many lights I couldn't use near all of them and the lights became so good that I stopped needing/wanting more lights. So the focus of interest and engagement with the hobby softened. My light activity shifted from intense interest and exploration of lights to just using them on a daily basis.

Same thing happened over years with my firearms interest, knife interest, watch interest, fountain pens interest. Once you've done so many deep dives into the hobby, you kind of feel settled with the hobby and then the intensity of the engagement mellows. You don't lose the interest and the practical use, you just settle into a relaxed state of use. For me these things gradually morph from receiving intense, passionate focus into simply commonly used (though still enjoyed) tools.

 

[dc38]

What happened with me is I ultimately had so many lights I couldn't use near all of them and the lights became so good that I stopped needing/wanting more lights. So the focus of interest and engagement with the hobby softened. My light activity shifted from intense interest and exploration of lights to just using them on a daily basis.

Same thing happened over years with my firearms interest, knife interest, watch interest, fountain pens interest. Once you've done so many deep dives into the hobby, you kind of feel settled with the hobby and then the intensity of the engagement mellows. You don't lose the interest and the practical use, you just settle into a relaxed state of use. For me these things gradually morph from receiving intense, passionate focus into simply commonly used (though still enjoyed) tools.

When I get Adamantine tools, a folding vorpal blade, and a quantum powered lighting source, I'll stop looking...

 

[jtr1962]

Face it, lads, the USA has thoroughly and irrevocably de-industrialized itself. It'll take decades before any industry renaissance can happen, and that is if the national debt bubble doesn't go supernova first.

Unless it's massively automated, it won't happen. Fact is the US consumes more than it can physically produce with current manufacturing methods. China has over 4 times our population, a generally much higher education level, and a stronger work ethic. It's not just that they make goods for much less. They also have a huge variety. I can buy things which were never made in the US, even at the height of our manufacturing boom.

Made in the US now would mean $1,000 air conditioners, $5,000 OLED TVs, $4,000 e-bikes, and proportionally higher everything else. Fact is there would be a very limited market for such goods at these prices. Like it or not we're wedded to China for much of the stuff we need.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

For most of us, there is a finite distance that we need to see in the dark, and a finite amount of lumens that we need to illuminate it with. Once those two factors are achieved, the needs are fairly well met, and buying of tools begins to fall off. Pre-LED, those factors were not readily available on the commercial market for the consumer. That is what drove the modding on this forum. Now, there is an abundance of light tools available on the consumer market at reasonable prices that fairly well meet all the lumen and distance needs for the general population, which has resulted in much less interest in modding or "pushing the envelope" by many. There are still a few that are unsatisfied, but they are an exception, and growing fewer in number, it seems.

Judging by Maglite's recent changes in product line, and business strategy, I'd say they are winding down, possibly in anticipation of going out of business, or at least making the company leaner and more profitable. I have not heard anything official, or even any rumors to that affect, just a hunch of mine. I think the inclusion of a flashlight on all the smart phones has really hurt the flashlight industry in general.

 

[Schokokeks]

I want the PRC products banned from importation. It fries me that Americans are sending their money to the PRC instead of buying made in USA products from their countrymen. It seems like such a betrayal. I try to buy as little as possible PRC origin products. I'm hoping Donald will eventually put in place a 100% ban on PRC product importation, but Wall Street is so married to the PRC, it will be quite the endeavor to accomplish.

While I generally try and buy as much as I can that's made in the U.S., so much really has been outsourced, it becomes nearly impossible to do that 100%, or even 50%.

What makes it harder is that for a lot of things, who remains in the U.S. is often government contractors, and they're often either not interested in hobbyists, or may not even sell to them.

Flashlights are a tough situation because, while someone like Surefire makes a LOT in house (even their boards), they seem to have zero interest in the hobbyist market. If they really wanted to, they could offer many of their products with a high CRI option, and they'd suddenly be really compelling (imagine a high CRI Titan Plus). Just the same, they could probably still churn out endless 3P, 6P, and 9P hosts, and re-invigorate the whole P60 LEGO ecosystem. With the price of "vintage" Surefire hosts so high, that market isn't really going anywhere. The thriving Surefire LEGO ecosystem was about the time this place was really a happening place (I only even made an account here because it's the only place with frequent Malkoff discussions).

But, instead they focus on LE/MIL contracts and being a "one product solution" for those (thus, no hosts).

Outside of Surefire, it's mostly niche companies making niche lights. Malkoff and HDS targeting the durability market, while places like Fraz try to capture the "novelty function" gizmo market, someone like Frelux going for the non-orthodox format, and then it's mostly just exotic metal lights for $$$$ prices.

Peak and Malkoff are the only read "budget" options for made in USA, and while I'd argue those are excellent values, anyone not on this forum would likely prefer a $15 plastic, single D cell incandescent to a $100+ made in USA light.

I mean, as someone who DOES try and buy US made stuff, it's HARD. Just in the last few years, "standby" men's products made in the US have disappeared: Carhartt jackets, Filson (and Stetson) hats, New Balance shoes. MAYBE they have a few niche styles still made here, at best. And, I tell you what, the majority of the most adamant "Make it in America" crowd aren't walking around in Allen Edmonds, White boots, etc. or wearing $300+ oxford shirts.

The middle class is mostly gone, so anyone not rich is shopping at Wal-Mart, and so the made in USA brands that survive tend to be at the high end, or people who can churn out billions of plastic widgets from an automated factory.

Unless it's massively automated, it won't happen. Fact is the US consumes more than it can physically produce with current manufacturing methods. China has over 4 times our population, a generally much higher education level, and a stronger work ethic. It's not just that they make goods for much less. They also have a huge variety. I can buy things which were never made in the US, even at the height of our manufacturing boom.

Made in the US now would mean $1,000 air conditioners, $5,000 OLED TVs, $4,000 e-bikes, and proportionally higher everything else. Fact is there would be a very limited market for such goods at these prices. Like it or not we're wedded to China for much of the stuff we need.

Considering all I said above, that's not quite right.

It IS more expensive to make in the U.S., but until maybe the last 20 years, you could get REASONABLE priced goods made in the U.S.
If you've ever been to Germany, you'll be shocked to find stuff made in Germany can give Chinese stuff a run for the money on price - at multiples of the quality.

Our corporate, Wall Street overlords want us to believe everything would be impossibly expensive, so we support keeping Chinese slave factories open, so they can pocket the savings for themselves.

But, plenty of reasonable priced, yet significantly better made products are and were made in the U.S. Our overlords just make more money selling us disposable junk that we have to re-buy frequently.

U.S. manufacturing simply bifurcated as the middle class disappeared. No one is looking for U.S. made slacks for ~$100, but they ARE looking for $20 slacks or $1000 ones. Today, in the U.S., you generally are either shopping at Wal-mart or Saks. Sears is gone, JC Penny is flagging, Kohl's is flagging, etc. The middle has been hollowed out.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Hollowed out because we were sold out. :mad:

 

[dc38]

Unless it's massively automated, it won't happen. Fact is the US consumes more than it can physically produce with current manufacturing methods. China has over 4 times our population, a generally much higher education level, and a stronger work ethic. It's not just that they make goods for much less. They also have a huge variety. I can buy things which were never made in the US, even at the height of our manufacturing boom.

Made in the US now would mean $1,000 air conditioners, $5,000 OLED TVs, $4,000 e-bikes, and proportionally higher everything else. Fact is there would be a very limited market for such goods at these prices. Like it or not we're wedded to China for much of the stuff we need.

Here's a decent analogy:

USA to china manufacturing is like California to EV. We don't have the adequate infrastructure to handle the boom, nor is anyone trying to establish a foothold. (Not REALLY, anyway)

 

[dc38]

Hollowed out because we were sold out. :mad:

It started before the Clinton administration, but his administration made it possible

 

[Schokokeks]

It started before the Clinton administration, but his administration made it possible

I know people like to play the "political sports team game," Nixon normalizing relations with China was the first step, and Reagan really started outsourcing as a way to break unions.

Certainly, political affiliation never let any future administrations stop or slow that, though. NAFTA was a way to move low skill manufacturing to Mexico, and then higher skill into Canada, where companies could save benefits cost on healthcare.

Don't even get me started on tax breaks to ship Capital overseas.