TM 06 continued
- Thread starter DucS2R
- Start date
No probs,thinking is dangerous!!! order quick and stop:whistle:
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Utew
Newly Enlightened
Yes, really a great comparison ven. Thanks for your time writing that up. You always add excellent information to the discussion. :thumbsup:
Thank you for kind words Utew,i can waffle a bit though ............. :laughing:
;)
;)
NoNotAgain
Flashlight Enthusiast
It's been well known to a few of us that one pair of batteries gets drained at a higher rate than the other pair.
I haven't got back to figure out which pair is the culprit and what circuit is drawing the light down.
I also have a Vinh modified version and the cells draw at the same rate, or pretty close to the same rate.
Keep a watch on the cells or use a protected battery so as to not cause you problems.
Hi there,is it left on standby for periods,thinking along lines of using 2 cells for this out of the 4.
Is the light locked out by tail cap after use?
Of course it does not get away from the fact it's should not happen, so I agree it's not good.
I also have the tm06vn and after use lock out,it's never on standby for a long or even short durations between use. I get a discrepancy of around 0.05v iirc when cells are down to around 3.8v .2 cells are lower than the other 2
presuming down to cell arrangement in light. The matched 2 cells are the same V ,the 2 lots of 2 cells are slightly different to each set. Compared to other lights that vary by 0.01v over 4 cells,but these have different arrangement and UI etc. In my case it's no worry ,will do further testing over weekend time permitting and try and feed back some results. Got a hectic weekend ahead but will try my best,worse case be in next week .
Damn typing on phones :laughing: auto incorrect!!
Danielsan
Enlightened
So the voltage bug appears only when the light is in standby, not during normal use? This light has a voltage Indicator, which voltage will be indicated in this case, the voltage of the two lower batteries 3,2V or the 3,7V ones ? If voltage indicator Shows 3,2V than it would be ok for me, if it shows 3,7V i will not buy it.
I cant prove nor tested,but can only presume it takes the 4 cell volt average. As mentioned in other thread,locking the light out after use stops the other 2 cells being drained by the standby. 2 cells for standby/blinky light so must be a separate circuit,then 4 cells used when powered up. As i lock my lights out,i have consistent drain across the 4 cells. Its far from perfect design if the case,but an easy get around unless you need it on standby regular for a period of time. If this is the case,extra checks would be required,or at least till you learn how long it is till the cells drop to around 3.6/3.7v before charging again. Dont know why they changed the set up from the other tm lights...........:confused: more complex and flawed imo
Timothybil
Flashlight Enthusiast
Another simple solution if you need to leave the TM06 on standby would be to swap the two pairs of cells on a regular basis, like every couple days or once a week. That way the drain would be shared by all four cells on a long term basis, with better results when recharging as far as maintaining balanced cells.
I also don't have a reason why they went to this setup, unless it was to make sure that however low one set of cells gets from the standby drain, there will always be a set at full power if the need arises, even if the run time is reduced. What would happen in that case if one set of cells was several tenths of a volt less than the other set when full power was called for for a significant period of time. Would there be the risk of reverse charging like in a series string?
I also don't have a reason why they went to this setup, unless it was to make sure that however low one set of cells gets from the standby drain, there will always be a set at full power if the need arises, even if the run time is reduced. What would happen in that case if one set of cells was several tenths of a volt less than the other set when full power was called for for a significant period of time. Would there be the risk of reverse charging like in a series string?
thedoc007
Flashlight Enthusiast
If you are expecting a smaller version of the TM26, I think you may be disappointed. They really are quite different lights, in my opinion. The beam profile is not that different, and it uses 4x18650, but otherwise virtually every aspect of the light is different.
It is hard to say whether or not the voltage differential is a big deal, without knowing exactly how the light interacts with the cells. I haven't seen anyone actually do any testing...does it take the average voltage of four cells, or the voltage of either pair? When one set is drained significantly more than the other, does it pull more current from the cells with higher state of charge? Will it equalize under load? Until someone does, I'd be VERY wary of using unprotected cells in the light...reverse charging is a definite possibility. When you have multiple unprotected cells at differing states of charge in series inside a sealed compartment, you are really asking for trouble. That violates most of the basic rules of thumb for lithium-ion safety...and even if it doesn't cause a problem right away, you are setting the stage for problems in the future. Maybe no one on CPF will have an issue...knowing how to manage it goes a long way...but this is a real flaw, not just an inconvenience. My $.02.
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Agree with the doc
For me no,i lock it out,i lock my tm15 out too. Look at the tm06vn u3 for a really amazing version,nice creamy white and a measured 4700 OTF lumens by Justin. Its an astonishing compact power house,with vinhs added heat sinking,it will run on turbo for at least 5 or 6 mins(from my test) and was only warm. I did not notice a step down,but no scientific testing done..........
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?394462-TM06vn-True-Tiny-Monster-MUST-HAVE!
The throw and flood really took me back for its size,big lights you expect,compact not so much...........for me a WOW light sums it up. The UI is nice too,full press to advance modes,1/2 press to previous modes(clever,user friendly and i like).
If the user is the type to go out,use for an hour,leave on side on standby till tomorrow,use again etc. Then when signals cells low,slap on charge and walk away,then this light is not for them. If you lock out,or check your cells then the flaw is not as significant for that type of user.
By no means does it make nitecores circuit flaws right,but for me its an easy get around ,as its a practice i use regardless where possible(light permitting/allowing)
Thank you both for the thoughtful replies. I use protected cells in all my flashlights and would do the same if I get the TM06. The idea of needing to unscrew the tailcap after each use is irritating. As it is, I have trouble remembering the interfaces on each of my flashlights. The TM26 locks out with the side switch--not sure why this isn't possible with the TM06. It would be really useful to have a light with the punch of the TM26 in a smaller package, but I should probably hold off on the TM06 for now.
NoNotAgain
Flashlight Enthusiast
The switch on the TM26 when depressed and held does indicated Lock out, but there still is current running thru the light.
The TM06 because of the tail mounted on-off-momentary switch acts the same way as the TM26 does, just not as eloquently. You can turn off the power indicator light on the TM06, but there will always be a small amount of power flowing thru the light.
Like Ven, I also mechanically lock out my light by unscrewing the battery tube a half to a full turn. Not a big deal as long as the o-rings are still engaged. I've got to the point that I lock out the majority of my lights, even when carrying them to maximize battery life.
thedoc007
Flashlight Enthusiast
The TM06 has a physical rear switch for master power...so making the side switch do lockout wouldn't really make sense, even if it was possible.
I think it is a good idea to use a PHYSICAL lockout whenever possible...electronic lockouts cannot eliminate cell drain entirely, since the switch has to have a small current running through it all the time. Otherwise it would not be able to tell when you want to start using it again. I have also found physical lockouts to be FAR more reliable...a couple second hold or a triple click can happen accidentally, and turn it on again, but a quick rotation of the tailcap (when that works) is absolutely, one hundred percent effective. It completely removes any parasitic drain, and removes the possibility of accidental activation, and it often quicker and easier to do (no need to remember different techniques for each light).
I tested my tm06vn cell V before(along with a couple of other lights) and every cell read 4.16v on the fluke. It had been locked out for a couple of weeks since last use iirc
I seem to find 4.16v is a resting voltage after a week /month or so,pretty much with any cell,or locked out in any light. Have 2 MM and yes it does read other than 4.16v :laughing: ;)
I used the tm06vn for a bit before to run cells down ,no timing done,various modes etc(not just turbo),measured cells and all spot on or within 0.01v,measured [email protected]/1@ 3.95v .
I seem to find 4.16v is a resting voltage after a week /month or so,pretty much with any cell,or locked out in any light. Have 2 MM and yes it does read other than 4.16v :laughing: ;)
I used the tm06vn for a bit before to run cells down ,no timing done,various modes etc(not just turbo),measured cells and all spot on or within 0.01v,measured [email protected]/1@ 3.95v .
thedoc007
Flashlight Enthusiast
This was posted in the TM06vn thread (as a direct response to my question about it - somehow I missed it earlier). So apparently it isn't limited only to standby...it can be an issue under load as well. Definitely use caution, monitor them carefully, and if you can use protected cells, that would be a good idea also.
Just tested my tm06vn,little use to test then stored for a while now(always go through modes and short blast on turbo after replacing charged cells)
Pics of each sell,this is how I use my lights,always locked out if not used(even if a day)
Around a month since last charge,cells seemed to have settled at 4.15v
Will use on turbo for a bit and re-check again the cell V when get chance,till then it's locked out.
Pics of each sell,this is how I use my lights,always locked out if not used(even if a day)
Around a month since last charge,cells seemed to have settled at 4.15v
Will use on turbo for a bit and re-check again the cell V when get chance,till then it's locked out.
