123 Battery Shoot Out

[Kestrel]

I had Thompson Cinnamon-raisin bagels every morning for over two years...because that's what we have and you should never argue with mom under any circumstances. To this day I'm still surprised how good the original flavor tasted, hot or cold...but only for that brief week when publix was back ordered on shopping day

 

[jlebow44]

I have what may well be a dumb question but I'm gonna ask it anyways....if all of the primary 123a's "Made in USA" are all manufactured by Panasonic then why is there any variance in the test performance of any of these homogeneous batteries? Do various batches manufactured by Panasonic perform differently and lesser performing batches are sold off to be sold under a different name? I am quite the newbie here so please forgive my ignorance if I'm missing something obvious.

 

[MattK]

It's not a bad question. There's 2 or maybe 3 variable at work.

First accept these premises:
Even 'mass manufactured' products made side by side are not exactly the same - they are not perfectly homegenous.
Batteries, and many other products are made in huge batches and 'sorted' after production to have different marketable levels of product.
LED's are just like batteries - they don't set out to make lower bin products - they're a result of imperfections in the manufacturing process.


1)Batch variation: All of the tests that have been done on CPF have been of a handful of cells which is statistically insignificant. Panasonic's LD factory makes 108K batteries per shift. Within every batch of batteries there will be a variation in capacitance and internal resistance. This is completely normal; is enedmic to all battery mfring (any almost all other mfring) and so long as the cells are tested in the factory there's an acceptable range of variance (tolerances).

2)Mfr date/age: Tima matters with batteries and is definitely somewhat of a factor. Self explanatory.

3)Batch Sorting: There's a possibility that Panasonic LD is either making, or more likely simply getting as a result of their processes, cells that do not make the cut for their top spec but are within an acceptable margin. Again, this is totally common with battery manufacture; take for example NiMh cells where you have 2700mah, 2500mah etc, the factory actually makes those together, they're the same product, some just come out better and get sold as the higher spec. So, it's quite possible that Panasonic reserves top spec for certain customers or certain customers are paying a premium to get the top spec cells.

 

[DHart]

Wow.. it would seem that with such huge production numbers that actually testing and sorting them all out by test results would be prohibitively costly in terms of time. Can batteries be so quickly and easily tested for mAH?

 

[jlebow44]

Thanks for the thorough answer.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Wow.. it would seem that with such huge production numbers that actually testing and sorting them all out by test results would be prohibitively costly in terms of time. Can batteries be so quickly and easily tested for mAH?

They could do some samplings of a batch. Previously Surefire, for example, used Duracell Ultra CR123's and testing has shown them to be of high quality. Duracell no longer manufacturers their own CR123's, and it looks like Surefire is using Panasonic cells. I have often wondered if Surefire was able to have their cells made with their own formula for high current applications, particularly because the M6 requires a 2.5+Amp draw from the cells, and typical CR123's applications have been for cameras and camera flashes in particular. Just thinking out loud here.

Bill

 

[MattK]

Wow.. it would seem that with such huge production numbers that actually testing and sorting them all out by test results would be prohibitively costly in terms of time. Can batteries be so quickly and easily tested for mAH?

Every battery is tested - it's fully automated.

Thanks for the thorough answer.

Sure thing.

 

[MorePower]

Wow.. it would seem that with such huge production numbers that actually testing and sorting them all out by test results would be prohibitively costly in terms of time. Can batteries be so quickly and easily tested for mAH?

Every battery is tested - it's fully automated.

To clarify MattK's post: Every battery is tested, but not for mAh. Testing primary cells for capacity (mAh) is a strictly one-time thing. If every cell were to be tested, that would mean every cell would be fully discharged.

Every cell is tested for voltage (OCV and / or CCV) and possibly for flash amps. That process is fully automated and quickly weeds out bad cells.

Capacity is tested on cells sampled from production, most likely on a per shift, per day, or several times a week basis.

 

[DHart]

Ah... that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[MattK]

IIRC, voltage and impedence are tested on every cell. As pointed out above capacity testing on primary cells is a one time event so it's tested per production batch (3X a day for most factories), not on every cell.

 

[Englander]

I don't give much use to 123 primaries (all but two of the lights I use I run with rechargeables), but I'm thinking about stocking up to have an emergency back-up power supply on hand for the possibility of SHTF/BugOut use. Haven't decided on quantity yet... perhaps 20? Not sure. I just want to make the best purchase decision I can make so that if I reach for them in an emergency in three, five, seven years whatever, I don't find a bunch of dead cells sitting in my fridge. I may buy lots of ten or so, once every year or two... not sure of my strategy just yet... first trying to figure out the best possible quality/shelf-life.

I can comment on the longevity of The Battery Station CR123A's that I have. I bought a batch of about 20 or 30 back in April 2006 when I bought my Surefire U2. I have about 8-10 left. NONE of them work in a capacity that will run my Surefire U2, I actually thought there was something wrong with the torch, ive been travelling for the better part of 2 years, got back and digged it out with the batteries and hit the hills. Torch started acting real strange, going dimmer on higher settings. Tried all the batteries and was convinced the torch was bust.

After posting on here, someone suggested buying new cells from the shop to check, so I splashed out on 2 (about $13.5 for 2, yes UK sucks). Worked normal with the new Energizer ones. So they didn't last much longer than 3 years. One also leaked in a SC1 container I had it in.

The batch was Made in P.R.C (China).

Englander

 

[DHart]

I can comment on the longevity of The Battery Station CR123A's that I have. I bought a batch of about 20 or 30 back in April 2006 when I bought my Surefire U2. I have about 8-10 left. NONE of them work in a capacity that will run my Surefire U2...

So they didn't last much longer than 3 years. One also leaked in a SC1 container I had it in.

The batch was Made in P.R.C (China).

Englander

Englander.... That's very good information to know. Thanks for sharing that.

I think you probably would've had a different result with a USA-Panasonic made CR123 like Panasonic, Duracell, Surefire, Everready, RayoVac. I believe these truly will last for years if kept stored cool. Perhaps someone whose actually done this with a premium brand can attest to this from first hand experience.

 

[DHart]

... duplicate post in error

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I can comment on the longevity of The Battery Station CR123A's that I have. I bought a batch of about 20 or 30 back in April 2006 when I bought my Surefire U2. I have about 8-10 left. NONE of them work in a capacity that will run my Surefire U2, I actually thought there was something wrong with the torch, ive been travelling for the better part of 2 years, got back and digged it out with the batteries and hit the hills. Torch started acting real strange, going dimmer on higher settings. Tried all the batteries and was convinced the torch was bust.

After posting on here, someone suggested buying new cells from the shop to check, so I splashed out on 2 (about $13.5 for 2, yes UK sucks). Worked normal with the new Energizer ones. So they didn't last much longer than 3 years. One also leaked in a SC1 container I had it in.

The batch was Made in P.R.C (China).

Englander

I am being redundant when I say this, as it has been repeated hundreds of times on CPF the past few years. Battery Station CR123's are now made in the USA at the same plant that makes Panasonic, SF, Rayovac, Duracell, etc. They are now all blue, without any yellow.

Bill

 

[Black Rose]

I think you probably would've had a different result with a USA-Panasonic made CR123 like Panasonic, Duracell, Surefire, Everready, RayoVac. I believe these truly will last for years if kept stored cool. Perhaps someone whose actually done this with a premium brand can attest to this from first hand experience.

Battery Station CR123A cells are also made by Panasonic now, as a result of problems with the older cells.

The Battery Station cells that Englander bought are the older (and problematic) Made In China cells.

EDIT: DOH!! Bill already posted the same info

 

[DHart]

Good to know, guys. Even though many here would know this information, many may not or might have forgotten. Thanks.

 

[Englander]

I am being redundant when I say this, as it has been repeated hundreds of times on CPF the past few years. Battery Station CR123's are now made in the USA at the same plant that makes Panasonic, SF, Rayovac, Duracell, etc. They are now all blue, without any yellow.

Bill

Yeah, I noticed that they were now made in USA, one of the reasons I specifically said they were made in China. Yep they are the ones with yellow at the bottom. Provided the information more for people who still own the older variety and just to generally add more knowledge to the system.

In fact, if you guys wanted, I could post the remaining cells I have left to you guys for testing? (Obviously I will need to look into costs before I would commit).

Englander

 

[yard candle]

Please don't make me read all the past posts. Here is my question.
Why do I see some C123a batteries listed as 3.6v and others (the ones I'm seeing here) rated at 3 volts. Are am I starting to hallucinate? Help

Which battery works on the the iTP A1 EOS flashlight?
sales link removed

 

[Mr Happy]

Please don't make me read all the past posts. Here is my question.
Why do I see some C123a batteries listed as 3.6v and others (the ones I'm seeing here) rated at 3 volts. Are am I starting to hallucinate? Help

In short, you don't.

Primary (non-rechargeable) lithium CR123A batteries have 3 V written on them. This is a convenient fiction, and when you use them they may very well deliver less than that, maybe 2.5 V.

Secondary (rechargeable) lithium ion RCR123 batteries may have 3.6 V written on them. This also is a fiction, but less of one. When you use them they may deliver anything from 4 V down to 3 V, but about 3.6 V on average.

Note the important difference between disposable batteries and rechargeable batteries. Even though they are the same size, their voltage may be different and they may not be compatible.

 

[yard candle]

Matt; Can you suggest which is which. If The "R" in these means that they are all rechargable (secondary)does that mean the regular primary C123A is not compatable.

The ITP A1 Led flashlight specs says I can use;
CR123A, or a RCR123A or even a 16340 cell.

The flashlight is here;
Sales link removed