An Emergency Water Epiphany

[cy]

I've currently got on hand aprox. 10x 5gal jugs of spring water/normal tap water. plus 17 cases of 24x bottled water.

this would take care of imediate water needs. Jim's excellent point of grey water needs should be factored in.

having a nice filter is an excellent idea of course. but the gold standard for water purification is still boiling. so knowing a nearby water source, like a swimming pool may be an excellent idea.

 

[rider]

I just went to the hardware store and bought two 32 gallon Rubber-maid garbage cans with covers. Go through the whole stack and hold each can, one at a time, upside down, over your head and look up toward the lights. You will be able to see how thin the bottoms are. Buy the thickest one(s).

Only use these types of containers for non-potable water storage. Most trash cans aren't intended for storing food or water and may have plasticizers that can leach from the plastic, have non-food-safe dies, etc.

I personally use 55-gallon blue plastic food-safe drums that are used to ship raw corn syrup.

You've brought up some great points regarding water storage and its importance.

 

[Brock]

Sub this is very true, as I move through our plan things get easier. I started with heat, then power and lights, then diesel & gas. I had always assumed I would have water since we have a well and 3 sources to power the pump and R/O system. I have since backed up our well water supply.

Not sure how many live in a house as opposed to an apartment, but if you have a water heater you have 40-60 gallons of regularly rotated water in it. Another thing I have done is freeze bottled water. You can then move it to your main fridge to keep the fridge cold a lot longer and the water will be safe even stored a long time since not much can grow in the solid ice.

I have said this before, but actually rehearsing for an event or power outage will tell you a lot. We do this at least once a year. I flip off the main power to the house for 48 hours and we can't buy anything for a week. It can be sort of fun and really makes you realize what you need, want and miss, the first thing I found was running out of milk now we keep dehydrated milk. This also allows us to use those things (like dehydrated milk) and rotate them out, although most of what we store we use regularly, like macaroni & cheese, dry noodles, canned food, ect; we just keep about a month or two supply ahead of what we normally use. When we do this we try to live as normal as possible, often still going to work but make notes of things we are missing or need as we go. Oh another advantage of buying ahead is when you do go grocery shopping you can buy items when they are on sale.

Try it just for fun sometime, and keep it fun, not a military action, we tell the kids we are camping at home They all have their own flashlights and get to sleep in sleeping bags.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Only use these types of containers for non-potable water storage. Most trash cans aren't intended for storing food or water and may have plasticizers that can leach from the plastic, have non-food-safe dies, etc.

Thanks, I'm going to look into this again.

About eight weeks after Katrina blew through New Orleans Mrs Umbra was extensively de-briefed by a team from the FDA who were in town so there would be more qualified inspectors to get restaurants open more quickly. When they found out that we were here throughout the entire Mandatory Forced Evacuation they sat her down and asked her one nuts and bolts question after another -- for about two hours.

They asked one very pointy question after another about how we had dealt with so many of the same things that made so many others sick. (We never had any problems at all) They (the FDA team) would get on one subject and ask question after question to find out exactly what the details were on how we handled problems like: food, water, insects, garbage, sanitation and more. They would ask questions about one subject until they were satisfied and then move on to another subject and a whole 'nother string of questions.

They never objected to any of our methods. In some cases it became obvious that when they had enough information they would approve things that the FDA condemned more generally in their literature.

As I said, I'm going to look into this subject again and revisit our options on this subject. Thanks again for the info.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...Not sure how many live in a house as opposed to an apartment, but if you have a water heater you have 40-60 gallons of regularly rotated water in it. Another thing I have done is freeze bottled water. You can then move it to your main fridge to keep the fridge cold a lot longer and the water will be safe even stored a long time since not much can grow in the solid ice.

You may also get a bit more drinkable water from each water heater by just draining off the gallon at the very bottom of it 2-4 times a year. That is where the most highly mineralized, 'rocked up' water accumulates. Just draw off a gallon from the spigot at the bottom of the tank. (It's also better for the heater)

If you ever have to use water heater water there are a couple of other things to think about doing, too. First, kill the power to the heater before drawing any water from it (if it's electric). If you use enough of the water to expose the element(s) to air they will self-destruct in a few seconds when the power is eventually restored. Secondly, whenever you decide you may want to use the water in your water heater(s) you should be sure to shut off the water going into them. If your city water is still on but contaminated, the water in your heater will be contaminated with it as the bad water flows in to replace whatever you remove. If the city water is off -- you should still prevent it from entering your heater when it comes back on as it may very well be contaminated at that time.

...I have said this before, but actually rehearsing for an event or power outage will tell you a lot. We do this at least once a year. I flip off the main power to the house for 48 hours and we can't buy anything for a week. It can be sort of fun and really makes you realize what you need, want and miss...snip...Try it just for fun sometime, and keep it fun, not a military action, we tell the kids we are camping at home They all have their own flashlights and get to sleep in sleeping bags.

That's a great idea. Nothing short of a real emergency will tell you as much as a rehearsal. Things that no one would ever consider rationally will be RIGHT IN YOUR FACE IN SHORT ORDER. After a couple days of being cooped up with spouse, kids, inlaws and outlaws, many will also take steps to ensure that ENTERTAINMENT is given some thought in their emergency plan.

 

[benh]

I'd be interested in some specifics on how you handled things like insects, garbage and sanitation, Sub. Food and water, I have a good handle on, but I've got less clue in terms of waste management.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

I'd be interested in some specifics on how you handled things like insects, garbage and sanitation...

These are three subjects that you can really have an impact on -- if you are able to just think about it far enough ahead of time. You may lay up a few things that don't cost much that will have the power to change the whole picture.

You really have to think ahead on garbage and know exactly what you are going to do. The decisions that you make (or don't make) before the emergency will have a direct effect on not only the severity but also the breadth of your insect woes. Most won't ever give it serious thought until the problem is way out of control and they lack the tools to deal with it. The key to insect management is how you deal with your garbage -- so we'll do that one first.

Garbage

Deal with garbage aggressively.

Indoors

Always separate garbage into two classes: That which will get stinky, and That which will not get stinky. RubberMaid makes a series of clearish, rectangular, airtight containers in different sizes. They are a little more pricey than most 'Tupperware type' containers but they are worth it. They have double seals at the top and the top won't just start to split after a few months of use. Get the best containers you can find/afford.

We have two. The first is the above RubberMaid model in 3 qt size. We keep the flimsy plastic shopping bags from the A&P and I line it with one of those with some newspaper at the bottom. This one goes by the sink. Anything that will get smelly goes in there. Rinse your cans and meat packaging well (for example) before throwing them in your 'non smelly' trash. If it's something impossible to rinse, like a sardine can, just throw it into the 'smelly container' by the sink. (3 quarts is really pretty big) When you get ready to take out the non smelly trash, just remove the bag from the smelly container and throw it in. This way, if your AC or your garbage disposal unit goes out your main garbage inside won't stink. Your smelly garbage won't stink, either. NEITHER OF THEM WILL ATTRACT BUGS, EITHER.

Our second RubberMaid stinky container is the same model as the first except it is in the 6 L size. When I clean the kitty litter it all goes into another A&P bag for each day which gets knotted and goes right into it's own stinky bin. The 6 L bin will hold a week's waste from one cat. Again -- nothing smells -- even a month after the power and AC goes down. This is the way we do it all year around.

The FDA 'Pros from Dover' were really impressed by the stinky bin(s) strategy. I hadn't even thought it all through but they told Mrs Umbra that even without a pet in the house it was a brilliant approach for obvious reasons. They also mentioned that it would keep the cat from digging (for the stinky stuff) in the garbage. It really works.

Outside

When they stop picking up your garbage on a regular basis you need to know right from the git-go that bags won't work. There are really only two solutions: extra garbage cans or burial. If you put out bags for any amount of time they will be breached by birds, cats, rats, and who knows what -- depending on location. For dogs a plastic garbage bag is just a 'puppy piniada' -- fun with a surprise!!! WooHoo! After the bags are breached it's going to be bug city!

Four of the cheapest, lightest, blow away in the wind garbage cans with covers, nested in your garage could serve you very well in many scenarios. Bear in mind that in a real emergency you will produce much, much less trash. If you have a fenced in yard you'll really have an advantage because you'll be able to keep the dogs out.

You need to think about this stuff -- but in the context of your own situation.

Rule of thumb about Garbage:

Inventory every size plastic bag that you currently use (right down to zip-locks) and get someone to run you out to Sam's (we're bicycle people) and buy yourself a 2 year supply of each of them. They store small and it won't cost much. What you actually need in an emergency is EVERYTHING you normally use anyway. You'll use these bags, too, whether there's an emergency or not. What's the big deal?

Remember, you don't have to do this all today. Just think about it. Make a list of what makes sense for you. Just chip away at is as you can. It will get less oppressive as you go along.

Disasters ARE messy. For those who think that two years worth of plastic bags or soap (another category that stores small and is hideously cheap) is way over the top, chill. I'm not talking to you. If you want to respond about how you don't know if you'd want to survive in that world, do me a favor -- just start your own thread about how everyone who is more prepared than you is crazy. You'll get takers.

Next: Insects

 

[Silviron]

Wow, some excellent points in this thread.

I thought I was an 'expert' on this subject but a couple of you brought up things I never even considered.

Thanks!

 

[Datasaurusrex]

Speaking of trash bags.... I'd suggest the contractor grade bags from Home Depot, they absolutly rock! Very thick mil.

Also, one can get an excellent ceramic water filter, like a MSR, for around 50-60. They will filter just about anything, and do hundreds of gallons. Made to be in a backpack, and tossed around... so they are very durable. Pack it away with a bunch of nagelyne bottles and you have a pretty good water kit that is also portable.

Some purification tabs are also a good idea to have on hand.

Hand sanatizer wipes and disifectant wipes are also an excellent thing to have a bunch of. Or hand sanatizing gel.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Speaking of trash bags.... I'd suggest the contractor grade bags from Home Depot, they absolutly rock! Very thick mil...

I keep a couple rolls of the 42 gal 3 mil contractor bags on hand. They are great for emergencies. They slip right over the biggest computer tower and when split open they are big enough to cover a blown out window.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

I'd be interested in some specifics on how you handled things like insects, garbage and sanitation...

Insects
Even assuming that you have been managing your garbage aggressively, insects will eventually become problematic in any emergency that lasts long enough. If you are in a warmer, more humid climate it will take less time, yet. It is also probable that you will not have total control over all of the garbage in your neighborhood. Aside from the biters, house flies, fruit flies and coffin-bugs are among the most annoying.

Inside

Having something as cheap and simple as a few fly strips can be a real godsend but you'll have to have them in your kit before the bell rings. They do a wonderful job of wiping out fruit and house flies but you may have to experiment to find the best locations to hang them. I've had better luck in front of windows. (Inside, where the light shines on them) Wherever you put them, check on them in a few hours and if they aren't working, move them to some other spot. Coffin-bugs (phorid flies) really hate 409 -- they won't walk across an area that's been sprayed with it and left wet. (Fruit flies look like coffin-bugs but it you see a fruit fly on a surface and try to squash it with your finger it will fly away. If you try to squish it and it just dashes a couple of inches on the same surface without taking off -- it's a coffin-bug.)

By and large if you take care of your garbage and try to keep things clean those three shouldn't get out of control.

Everyone has heard that flies spread disease and there are some very simple, low tech things you can do to protect yourself. We made loose fitting tops of folded newspaper held in shape with masking tape to cover our water glasses. Just keep the rim covered until you drink -- then cover again. It's not rocket science. (The FDA folks really liked that one.) Under these conditions you may have numerous open container of water around, probably for washing and flushing toilets and the like. Cover them with cloth to keep mosquitoes from laying eggs in them.

For the biters we use DEET and sleep under netting. I like the highest concentration of DEET I can get as it may also be used to treat clothing. There are other solutions if you don't like DEET.

So, for inside use we stock DEET, low tech fly strips and 409.

Outside

Outside is more difficult because you usually have less control. If you have a good garbage plan you still have to do an initial walk of the area and keep checking back to keep making sure that your trash isn't being breached. On my first walk through I also covered my next door neighbors yard. They had evaced. I was glad I did. I found two big car tires filled with black water and mosquitoes. They were only twenty feet from my house. I got all of the water out of them I could and then bagged them each in a 3 mil contractor bag and sealed them up. I stood the bagged tires up against a fence so they wouldn't catch any water. This single act cut our mosquitoes down by 95% within a day or so. It was very satisfying.

No matter how careful you are about garbage you will have trouble spots from time to time. They are easy to deal with if you plan for them. I highly recommend buying a five pound tub of fly bait. You may never need it but if you do you will really kick yourself for not having it. I found mine online as it's for professional use and not sold in stores. I bought a five pound tub of MAXFORCE Granular Fly Bait It was ~$38 and I've only used about a pound of it since Katrina. It rocks. Flies won't bother you in your house if they die outside. You just throw it around on the ground like you were sowing seed. Throw it where ever you see flies. It starts killing them within a minute. Come back in a few hours and the ground will be covered with dead flies. Those would be flies that aren't in your house. They won't be laying any eggs, either. It has a reddish color so you may see if it's been washed away. There is a bitterant added to the formula so dogs, cats and birds won't eat it.

If you ever see this stuff work you won't want to be without it again. If things really go south and you ever have a few bodies wrapped in 6 mil plastic in your yard you'll be even more glad you have it. I know that's gross. It's also realistic.

Ok, so for bugs outside we used our garbage plan, vigilance, and Fly bait. I know that there are other methods that are probably very good but this is what we used in our sub-tropical environment during the hottest September on record.

As before, a well thought out plan made it all seem kind of ho-hum. Some in my area had a much rougher time with bugs, though.

Next: Sanitation

 

[benh]

These are some really good pieces of information. Thanks.

 

[Kristofg]

I didn't say how much we stored or did not store actually, what I said is that we never let them get below 3/4s full. When they get down to that, I fill them from stroed cans and refill the cans, and rotate.

Got it, I thought you filled up at the gas station every time you had consumed 1/4 of your cars gas tank.

 

[daloosh]

Great discussion in this thread, thanks to all.

Plus one for Katadyn here. Filling the tub is great, you know the weight is OK and there are a lot of uses for that water. The mylar packed water is supposed to be good for five years, so I guess that's a little better than the two for bottled water. Be careful, those little mylar bags can explode, so I put them in heavy ziploc bags before putting them in a bailout bag or something.

daloosh

 

[Ras_Thavas]

Sub is absolutely right about the water. Even though we use well water for our house we filter the water through a Big Berkey (a gravity filter similar to the one Sub listed).

When hurricane Isabel hit here a couple of years ago we were without power for 1 week. Fortunately, a couple days before the storm hit I bought a generator. I was able to run the well pump, the fridge, tv, fan, garage door opener, and a microwave. We always have plenty of food on hand, and honestly the worst part of it for us was no air conditioning. Had it not been the middle of August and very hot I would have hooked the generator up to the furnace. As it was, the cool water in the showers was our only relief from the heat.

As far as bottled water goes, most of the bottled water you buy now has a use by date on it. I would say it is probably good after that date, if stored properly, in a cool dark place.

 

[Lee1959]

For those who have a well, a good thing to pick up is a handpump, you can sometimes find them reasonably priced at yard sales. They usually will need a change of leathers but that is not a problem. They are great for when you have no power, and gas for the generator, if you have a generator, is at a premium.

Best to disguise it in some way however, because in an emergency situation, it will be like flowers to a bee, and being on everyones radar is not what you want in that type of situation.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Got it, I thought you filled up at the gas station every time you had consumed 1/4 of your cars gas tank.

Some of us do indeed follow this practice.


Cheers. :buddies:

 

[Sub_Umbra]

I'd be interested in some specifics on how you handled things like insects, garbage and sanitation...

Sanitation
Of course, it goes without saying that your experience will be...less pleasurable if you and yours run out of toilet paper. Fortunately it's cheap. I didn't really know how long my stash would last, I just wanted to be sure I had enough. (Once the stores were REALLY closed it took a while to figure out but we actually had enough to last us better than six months.) It was good that we had as much as we did because resupply of most items is still problematic. Almost ten months after the storm only 10% of the pre-storm businesses are open. We double bag our TP in plastic and then put them in sturdy bins. Yes, we could get by without TP, but I don't want to. TP is easy as it doesn't 'go bad' and like so many of our storm supplies, we're going to need it whether there is a storm or not. Not having a bunch of it just doesn't make any sense to me.

The same goes for paper towels. They save water because you don't have to wash them. We like Pik-A-Size.

We also find the little packs of wet wipes to be very handy. We stock two kinds: the disinfectant kind that generally has alcohol, and the gentler, diaper change variety. They are quick and easy to use. They save water and they take less time and effort than a bath. We only like the small portable packs -- the ones that only hold 12-20 wipes. I'm afraid that the big containers will dry out before we rotate through them. Keeping the dated packs in big Zip-Lok freezer bags help keep them from drying out.

I mentioned having a two year supply of every kind of soap you use in an earlier post. It's cheap, it stores well and since it's what you normally use anyway there is no risk in laying up a good supply of it. You're going to use it whether there is an emergency or not. The only exception to the two year rule would be 409. We probably used four times as much 409 during the emergency than we normally use. As mentioned previously, coffin-bugs hate it. It also saves water because you normally won't have to rinse after using it like you would with most cleaners. Finally, 409 is a disinfectant. We have a lot of 409 on hand and it doesn't take up much space. There may be other products that do all of these things as well. --EDIT 01.23.12- If you look around you may be able to find CONCENTRATED 409. You mix it with water before you use it. Great for apartment dwellers. /EDIT

Gray water has been mentioned already a few times. Give some thought to how you'll contain gray water at the various stages before it gets ultimately used to flush a toilet.

In any emergency, modern "Water Saver" toilets are both a blessing and a curse. They are a blessing in that they will use less of your precious gray water with each force flush. (A force flush is when you flush a toilet by just pouring water into the bowl to flush it. Don't fill the toilet tank with gray water as it will eventually clog up the works in the tank.) The bad news of Water Saving toilets in an emergency is pretty much the same as in normal times -- they often just don't work very well and are more prone to getting stopped up. This is exacerbated when the water is off because you're probably going to want to set up some kind of schedule of flushing in an attempt to make your gray water go farther -- perhaps only force flushing 1-3 times in each 24 hour period, depending on how many are in your party.

Our toilet actually uses a little less than 2.5 gallons per flush but it is always somewhat marginal in the way it deals with paper. The last thing you want to do is plug up your toilet during any kind of emergency. IMO the best approach to conserving gray water in a crisis is to dispose of the toilet paper separately. We stock various sizes of Zip-Lok HD Freezer bags and after we use one we don't necessarily throw it right out. We use many of these bags for organizational purposes and once used in that way they are no longer suitable for food. Instead of throwing them away we keep them for other tasks until, like gray water, they get used enough to get rid of. We kept a one gallon Zip-Lok Freezer bag near the stool and just put all of the paper in it. In this way the our commode never stopped up even at a highly reduced daily flush rate. (When the FDA debriefed my wife they really liked the idea of separating out the toilet paper from the rest of the waste.)

It should also be remembered that when things get really bad there may not be power or personnel to operate your town's sewage lift stations. When you flush it will still go downhill, but only until the sewage lines are full -- then it will begin to back up. For the long term you should think about this as it may be an important factor in any of your plans that may involve a Sheltering In Place strategy. Without going in to too much detail, you want to make sure that your house/apartment...isn't at the bottom.

Well, that's the bulk of it. Nothing earth shaking. Just a starting point, really -- a few bits to help keep you from falling into some very common traps. There are lots of small details you'll have to think about and fill in.

 

[Pistolero]

This thread is awesome.

Sub-umbra... you are the man.

 

[Spin]

In reference to sanitation disposal etc. What about using the same chemical that is used in those "porta-potties"? One could also relieve themself outside a dwelling (in a garage, yard etc.) by making a makeshift toilet with a black plastic shower curtain for privacy. (if possible)