Are Bargman LED lights just junk?

[reader2580]

I have a converted bus that gets driven at most 5,000 miles a year. I converted the rear lighting to Bargman LED lights in 2009. Since that time I have replaced one of the brake/tail lights as it stopped working in brake mode. I currently have a center brake light with about 1/2 of the LEDs not working. Bargman replaced the brake/tail light module, but I don't know if I even want to bother with them replacing the center brake light.

Are these Bargman LED lights junk, or am I just having bad luck with them? I went to LED lights since the original lights had badly corroded sockets and cracked lenses. I could get new sockets for about $100, but no new lenses or assemblies available.

 

[-Virgil-]

Well, that's not happy or fun. I don't consider Bargman to be a top-tier manufacturer -- for many years their bulb-type lamps were pretty cheap (in the "quality of design, level of technology and durability" sense). But neither do I consider it a bottom-of-the-barrel company, either, in that their stuff isn't as pathetic as a lot of the offshore stuff coming in. The trouble is a lot of the Bargman stuff is uniquely sized, making it less than easy to go to another maker's product instead.

I have seen good performance out of the inexpensive Bargman bulb-type lamps when equipped with the Philips LED conversion bulbs (these in red-lens brake/tail lamps, these in red-lens brake lights, and these in amber-lens turn signals). Just be sure to seal everything up carefully and put silicone grease on the bulb base before you install it.

 

[reader2580]

I actually looked at a lot of LED light manufacturers before choosing Bargman. I did not have Bargman lights to start with. In hindsight what I should have done is just installed standard 6" oval lights so I am not stuck with one manufacturer.

 

[poiihy]

One thing that is important to consider is that when an automobile is operating, the voltage of the electrical system floats above 12v, usually about 14v. Cheap bulbs, like the 5-SMD ones you'd find really cheap on ebay, can't handle the 14v so they don't last long.
When looking for LED bulbs, make sure it can handle 14v or maybe a bit higher, or it would probably burn out.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

One thing that is important to consider is that when an automobile is operating, the voltage of the electrical system floats above 12v, usually about 14v. Cheap bulbs, like the 5-SMD ones you'd find really cheap on ebay, can't handle the 14v so they don't last long.
When looking for LED bulbs, make sure it can handle 14v or maybe a bit higher, or it would probably burn out.

Some trucks and buses are 24V, but the legitimate manufacturers design their products to handle the voltages for the application.

Most of the "LED bulbs" are worthless-- stick to the offerings from Philips (assuming they cover the voltage range), or get purpose built complete assemblies from PM, Grote, or Truck-Lite.

 

[reader2580]

Personally, I would never consider LED light bulbs to go into sockets. No real advantage in my book. I went to the sealed LED light assemblies to get away from problems with corroded sockets and such.

It would not be that hard for me to replace the Bargman LED lights with 6" oval LED lights. Does anyone make 6" oval LED lights in the USA? Truck-Lite maybe?

 

[-Virgil-]

Personally, I would never consider LED light bulbs to go into sockets. No real advantage

That's not at all correct, but it's your vehicle and your choice.

It would not be that hard for me to replace the Bargman LED lights with 6" oval LED lights. Does anyone make 6" oval LED lights in the USA?

Peterson and Truck-Lite and Grote all have US-made product in their lines. Peterson's newest Lumen-X lamps are really excellent.

 

[poiihy]

Personally, I would never consider LED light bulbs to go into sockets. No real advantage in my book. I went to the sealed LED light assemblies to get away from problems with corroded sockets and such.

There are advantages to LED retrofit bulbs:
Less power usage, therefore longer battery runtime when engine is not running, and also less fuel consumption
Much longer life, therefore very infrequent replacing needed (you'd probably get rid of the car before you need to replace a bulb)

Optics are usually not a problem because most light fixtures that use small wedge bulbs don't have precise reflectors focusing on the filament.

Also, you have the benefit of changing the LED if you want, like if you want to change the color or go back to incandescent.

I'm thinking about miniature wedge bulbs though. LED retrofit bulbs aren't good for things like brake lights, turn signals, and especially headlights, because they use precise reflectors that focus on the filament. In these cases you'd want to replace the whole fixture.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

There are advantages to LED retrofit bulbs:

Only when those bulbs can genuinely perform the function for which they're intended. In those cases, though, it might make sense for that brand-new car you got to receive all new LED bulbs just so you know you're a long way off from replacing them ever again.

For a vehicle like a bus or other more utilitarian thing like a heavy truck, just replacing all the fixtures with complete LED counterparts is the way to go. It's not like you can make a dump truck look any worse.

 

[DIWdiver]

Well, that's not happy or fun. I don't consider Bargman to be a top-tier manufacturer -- for many years their bulb-type lamps were pretty cheap (in the "quality of design, level of technology and durability" sense). But neither do I consider it a bottom-of-the-barrel company, either, in that their stuff isn't as pathetic as a lot of the offshore stuff coming in. The trouble is a lot of the Bargman stuff is uniquely sized, making it less than easy to go to another maker's product instead.

I have seen good performance out of the inexpensive Bargman bulb-type lamps when equipped with the Philips LED conversion bulbs (these in red-lens brake/tail lamps, these in red-lens brake lights, and these in amber-lens turn signals). Just be sure to seal everything up carefully and put silicone grease on the bulb base before you install it.

So you actually recommend replacing standard bulbs with LEDs? Even if they are very specific LEDs for somewhat specific applications, it seems like a dangerous generalization. The LEDs appear to have only one (maybe two) emitters, and the orientation within the bulb fixture could well be random. That sounds to me like a recipe for really bad lighting.

Am I missing something? Why is this a good idea when the general consensus is that replacing incan with LED is a very bad idea?

 

[reader2580]

In my particular case the sockets in my rear lights were totally corroded and not fixable. I had tried pretty much everything to try to clean them up. Every time I drove the vehicle at least one of the six rear light bulbs would quit working.

My choices were to replace all six of the sockets at $20 each, or go the sealed LED lights. I choose the sealed LED lights. Going to LED light bulbs was not an option as that would have meant replacing the sockets. I would have stuck with regular bulbs if I had gone with new sockets.

 

[-Virgil-]

Optics are usually not a problem

That is not generally correct.

most light fixtures that use small wedge bulbs don't have precise reflectors focusing on the filament.

That is also not generally correct.

 

[-Virgil-]

So you actually recommend replacing standard bulbs with LEDs?

I didn't say that.

it seems like a dangerous generalization

Your statement, yes. Mine, no.

Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing my specificity. I'm not sure why; it was right there all along. Here it is again. Note how much longer and more specific it is than "I recommend replacing standard bulbs with LEDs":

I have seen good performance out of the inexpensive Bargman bulb-type lamps when equipped with the Philips LED conversion bulbs (these in red-lens brake/tail lamps, these in red-lens brake lights, and these in amber-lens turn signals).

 

[DIWdiver]

Yes, you are missing my specificity. I'm not sure why; it was right there all along.

Actually, I didn't miss it. I even acknowledged it in the next sentence.

Even if they are very specific LEDs for somewhat specific applications, it seems like a dangerous generalization.

The generalization I was referring to is "Bargman bulb-type lamps". You then went on to specify red-lens brake/tail lights, red brake lights, and yellow turn signals. By my count, which was neither thorough nor scientific, and not counting singles/doubles/triples separately, that comprises at least 8 different lights, somewhat more if you count different lenses.

I'll back off from saying you suggested it, but your post at the very least implies tacit approval of using those bulbs in all of those lights.

If you stand behind that, I will defer to your expertise.

 

[-Virgil-]

The generalization I was referring to is "Bargman bulb-type lamps".

Yes. I've seen good performance out of Bargman's cheap incandescent lamps when equipped with the Philips LED retrofit bulbs. There are only a couple of different shapes and sizes of those lamps, but they all use fresnel optics in the lens so the different overall lamp shape and size is of no real consequence at the level of how they work. I'm sorry to have confused you, but if I had meant that I'd seen those Philips LED retrofit bulbs work in certain Bargman bulb-type lamps, that's what I would have said.

You then went on to specify red-lens brake/tail lights, red brake lights, and yellow turn signals. By my count, which was neither thorough nor scientific, and not counting singles/doubles/triples separately, that comprises at least 8 different lights

No, not really. That's all the same basic lamp. The only difference is whether the lens is made of red or amber plastic and whether the socket is for a single- or double-filament bulb.

 

[reader2580]

Since I'm the OP I'll add further clarification to my situation. I did not originally have Bargman lights of any variety. I covered the original lights and cut holes for Bargman lights into the back of my vehicle. The Bargman lights I bought are the sealed LED type. I could buy the Bargman lights with sockets and put LED bulbs in them, but that seems like a step backwards. I am using Bargman #84 LED modules. The Bargman site shows them as only a 1 year warranty, but I swear they had a longer warranty in 2009.

I have had to replace one #84 module already under warranty and another one has nearly half the LEDs out right now. The vehicle has not been driven more than about 25,000 miles since I installed the LED lights.

 

[-Virgil-]

I could buy the Bargman lights with sockets and put LED bulbs in them, but that seems like a step backwards.

Technologically, sort of, but functionally they'd be at least equal to a working one of the units that seem to be failing for you early and often.

I have had to replace one #84 module already under warranty and another one has nearly half the LEDs out right now.

Yuck...not a good showing. :-(

 

[Alaric Darconville]

The Bargman site shows them as only a 1 year warranty, but I swear they had a longer warranty in 2009.

I have had to replace one #84 module already under warranty and another one has nearly half the LEDs out right now. The vehicle has not been driven more than about 25,000 miles since I installed the LED lights.

Usually, a very long warranty is a gimmick (particularly the "lifetime" warranty). They make enough money on the first sale that they can afford to fulfill the "lifetime" warranty.

However, sometimes a proper warranty isn't sustainable. Sad thing is, is it SHOULD be-- these are solid-state devices!

There's a point-of-sale display of Grote LED lamps at the local NAPA. The reversing lamp is all but dead (just barely a glimmer of its former self). And this thing is running in an air-conditioned store! I wonder if now the display is costing them sales!

 

[reader2580]

There are two types of long term warranties. One is long because the item is well made and rarely ever breaks. The other is long because you paid too much up front to have to constantly replace a poorly made item. Obviously I prefer long warranties on well made items where I never need the warranty.

I don't do my own brakes and such on my car, but who wants to spend hours of labor replacing "lifetime" brake pads/rotors every year or two?

 

[DIWdiver]

There's another kind of long term warranty - one they don't intend for you to be able to claim against, and probably wouldn't honor if you managed it.