Aren't candles still best for power outage?

[Sub_Umbra]

I have candles for trade goods during power outages -- but only for those who live more than a couple hundred feet away from me. I don't live in earthquake country but it's still a bad idea.

...Pretty cynical, Sub_Umbra.

I'll cop to being cynical but I think it's more pragmatic than anything else. I just don't want to contribute to burning down my own house. While I failed to mention it in the earlier post, I've lent LED lights, cells and radios to those who live closest to me during past outages when I found out that they had only candles. (Gustav, Ike) Also, while I have described the candles truthfully as 'trade goods', I did not buy them (back in the 20th century) with that intent and I have not ever traded away any of them. It's just that whenever the power goes out for an extended period of time they aquire the option of being 'trade goods'. That's why they've been in my freezer for 20 years and have never gotten used or thrown out. I'm very big on having as many options as I can in any crisis.

 

[Fat_Tony]

I'll cop to being cynical but I think it's more pragmatic than anything else. I just don't want to contribute to burning down my own house. While I failed to mention it in the earlier post, I've lent LED lights, cells and radios to those who live closest to me during past outages when I found out that they had only candles. (Gustav, Ike) Also, while I have described the candles truthfully as 'trade goods', I did not buy them (back in the 20th century) with that intent and I have not ever traded away any of them. It's just that whenever the power goes out for an extended period of time they aquire the option of being 'trade goods'. That's why they've been in my freezer for 20 years and have never gotten used or thrown out. I'm very big on having as many options as I can in any crisis.

Fair enough, Sub_Umbra. So, why do you keep them in your freezer? Does this 'preserve' them, somehow?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Fair enough, Sub_Umbra. So, why do you keep them in your freezer? Does this 'preserve' them, somehow?

Yes. I live in the sub-tropics (New Orleans) so ½ of the time it's fully tropical here. Many in the South store candles, candy bars and all kinds of other things in the freezer that would seem odd to those who live in more temperate climes.

 

[jtr1962]

Bad idea, period, especially when we have other lighting options we could have only dreamed about ten years ago. Most residential house fires are started by one of two things-smoking or burning candles. Neither of these things are even remotely necessary to do. Most of the other causes of fire also involve things with flames, such as kerosene heaters, being used indoors (hence the reason kerosene heaters and working fireplaces are illegal to use in NYC). While some may use candles responsibly, the sad fact is quite a few can't or won't. No point stressing already stretched emergency services by using a lighting option which is obsolete by any reasonable definition. The big problem with starting a fire is you don't know which way it'll go. If I have an idiot neighbor who smokes despite the known health dangers, or burns candles "for atmosphere", I don't care if he only burns his house down. However, it's entirely possible he'll burn mine down too.

 

[arpit]

Candles are good fun. Just be careful with them, and treat them like you would a gas stove. Be especially careful of curtains. Often, if the power goes out, your curtains will blow around more than usual.

Re. The person who doesn't like naked flames - I take it you don't like gas stoves either?

Re. The people talking about carbon dioxide and oxygen - it really doesn't matter how much carbon dioxide the candle produces.
If you have many candles going, however, you should watch out for Carbon Monoxide. This is CO not CO2. It's extremely toxic, and is created by incomplete combustion - i.e. sooty yellow flames. A flame which produces little carbon monoxide will be blue or almost colourless.

For carbon monoxide to kill you, it doesn't need to displace the oxygen in your room. It just needs to displace the oxygen in your blood. This is rather easy, as the haemoglobin oxygen transporter in your blood stream likes carbon monoxide much more than it does oxygen.

Candlewax has about 20-30 carbon atoms in a molecule, so, for the sake of simplicity, I shall summarise the combustion reaction such: Obviously the proportion of CO, CO2 and H20 is extremely variable in reality - this is just an example.

C30H62 (g) + 38(O2) (g) ------------> 15(CO) (g) + 15(CO2) (g) + 31(H2O) (g) + Heat

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...Re. The person who doesn't like naked flames - I take it you don't like gas stoves either?...

That comparison sounds like apples and oranges to me and appears to be a gross generality. What kind of gas stove are you talking about? You don't say. If you were writing about the gas stoves that are permanently installed in typical kitchens throughout the West I'd say there's no comparison at all. They will be used in the location where they were installed -- with very little hazard when compared to candles. While you are careful to warn the foolhardy not to use candles too close to curtains that is not an issue with the modern kitchen gas range. It is much safer precisely because it is permanently installed in one location and cannot be moved around willy-nilly by any idot -- like the candles you've already (and rightly) warned against.

While open flames should always be taken seriously in any outage when emergency services may be operating at less than normal speed and capacity, the sheer portability of the candle means that any dolt may pretty much light one up anywhere he desires with no thought to the ramafications of his decision whatsoever. That entire class of hazard has been totally eliminated with the typical kitchen gas stove because Joe (or Jane) Idiot can't move it to whatever loopy location they fancy using it at at any given moment. That hazard has been successfully engineered out of the kitchen stove long ago.

 

[jusval]

Boy candles are so unsafe. I got to go read some history books. How did all those millions of people during all those hundreds of years live without flashlights? I mean whole generations should have just up and died off or something.:devil:

We had no electricity till I was at least 6 or 7. We had no flashlights. We used fire. Candles some, but mostly kerosene lanterns. We had a coal burning furnace (nasty) and mostly we learned to walk around in the dark (eyes get accustomed). Times have changed so much, but I still use candles......:candle:

We didn't have indoor plumbing either, till I was about 10. Try going to the outhouse in the middle of winter (with or without a flashlight), or worse yet, the middle of summer! :sick2: But that's another story......

 

[kongfuchicken]

Boy candles are so unsafe. I got to go read some history books. How did all those millions of people during all those hundreds of years live without flashlights? I mean whole generations should have just up and died off or something.:devil

They were a lot more skilled, meticulous and careful with using fire than we are and lived on to invent chemical extinguishers and insurance companies.

 

[paulr]

Plus they also died like flies. Anyone remember Mrs. O'Leary's cow?

Anyway, I've recently seen some LED gizmos involving a yellow led and a diffuser, where the led is controlled by a circuit that makes it "flicker". It's basically indistinguishable from an actual candle. They had them on the table of a restaurant I visited a few weeks ago and I had to look really closely to figure out that it was electronic. So if you want candle-like ambiance, I'd go for something like that. I think I've seen them for sale on DX and such places.

For power outages though, romantic ambiance is probably the least of your worries. Go for straightforward led lights.

 

[zx7dave]

I've been using simple candles for power outages, and I actually like them better than flashlights for general lighting. A flashlight (my preference is LED) is still needed when I want to move around alot from room to room, but a candle seems unbeatable for lighting up a room for long periods of time. A 12" taper candle can last for 9 hours! It doesn't degrade with age like batteries, and nothing can corrode. I just appreciate that simplicity!

Does anyone else here still hold candles in high regard even with the big advancements in flashlights that we now have?

I do have a few candles (including a Milky candle) but I have to say when power goes out I am reaching for my low power LED's (80 to 120 lumens) which mostly run on 18650's which give me close to your 9 hour mark..especially my M60WLL from Gene..his is good for 8+ hours although I have not personally done a runtime test.
So with the entry of rechargeable (Guilt Free Lumens) unless it is a prolonged outage (more than 4-5 days) my stockpile of 18650's and backup supply of CR123's will take care of me...
But until Scott perfects his "flickering" for his Milky Candle I do still like the traditional candle for the romantic side...

 

[manoloco]

one big plus for the for the candles in a "romantic ambiance" is the smell, scented candles or even unscented ones do smell (wax smell is kinda nice, not the burning wick)

But for other uses, yes a led is way more efficient and safe, i had an aunt and uncle stay in my house many years ago, they went to sleep and left a candle on a candleholder BESIDES the tv, luckily i was heading for the bathroom so when i passed the room i saw a flame, it was the tv plastic shell burning and melting, first thing i did was unplug it and then slapped it with a blanket, of course they were still asleep until i started slapping the thing, good thing the fire was not spread further.

the room then started to smell intensely as burned plastic, but everything was ok. no more candles for practical illumination purposes, and we started using cheap krypton bulb incans at that time (Rayovac roughneck comes to mind), although i do have some candles stashed just in case in a safe place.

candles have many disadvantages, you cant open a window if its windy, you cant move around fast with them, you need to be extremely careful with them, you cant search appropiately (try that ball that went rolling on the floor, looking under the couches is impossible in a safe way), the flame moves too much and makes reading uncomfortable, and moves the shadows too much for looking around, and a long list of etc.

they are effective in extreme cases were batteries are not around, or to heat up or burn something.

 

[brucec]

Hey, if the power is out, the computer is out, the TV is out, and you've already eaten dinner, candles help set the mood for killing a few hours before bedtime...

 

[paulr]

I seem to remember that a lumen is defined as 1 standard candlepower concentrated into a 1 steradian cone. So a perfectly isotropic candle would be 4*pi = about 12.5 lumens. In practice a real candle might be about half that. I'd stick with leds. A Gerber IU style light will put out 6 or so lumens on one AA cell for 24 hours or something like that, roughly comparable to a candle. If you have a 4-pack of Eneloop nimh cells around, you should be able to run low powered led lights for several days worth of use. Then when they need a recharge, go out to your car and plug your 15 minute nimh charger into the cig lighter socket, plop in the Eneloops and in a quarter hour you're good to go again.

 

[asdalton]

Plus they also died like flies. Anyone remember Mrs. O'Leary's cow?

Or worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshtigo_Fire

 

[ddawg16]

Candles have their uses....long shelf life.......and with no power for TV and the kids in bed.....puts the wife in a really 'good' mood.:twothumbs

But may I suggest something else? You know that UPS that you have your computer hooked up to? (and I'm sure everyone has a UPS for their computer) Well, it does a great job of keeping a CFL lamp alive for a couple of hours or more.....that's assuming you turn off the computer...

 

[f22shift]

i tested a tea light and it it's pretty useful in keep a kettle water pretty hot(post boiled by some other manner). it seemed to last forever too.
so really i could use an alcohol stove to boil a pot of water and the tealight is useful for simmering i suppose..

i wonder if in an emergency, running one in a standed car in the winter, would heat in the interior adequately or just a bad idea all around with burning of oxygen and such.

 

[AuroraAlpha]

I like a simple, glass, oil lamp like the following:
http://www.wolfard.com/goldlamps.html

The best are a little shorter, and a little while, but the inside part is the same (Also, who needs a gold top?). They are very hard to tip, last a LONG time, and are easy to refill without putting out the flame if you need to. Also no werid smells that everyone loves to sell candles with, or the werid dust they can pick up from storage.

A flashlight is still great for getting it started and moving around, or when you need light in a small spot. But most flashlights don't light a room well, just a part of one. A candle goes in every direction.

 

[LukeA]

i tested a tea light and it it's pretty useful in keep a kettle water pretty hot(post boiled by some other manner). it seemed to last forever too.

Tea lights last 4 hours.

 

[Phaserburn]

But most flashlights don't light a room well, just a part of one. A candle goes in every direction.

That's why you also need to pick up a couple of lanterns... propane, fluoro, led... they're all good.

 

[Jimson]

Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....

A flashlight is still great for getting it started and moving around, or when you need light in a small spot. But most flashlights don't light a room well, just a part of one. A candle goes in every direction.

Candles can be used safely, but they do need to be enclosed. Making your own 'candle lamp' is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Sitting beside my computer stand is a 1 gallon wide-mouth pickle jar with a metal lid. (The wide-mouth part is important unless you've got an undersized hand) The original metal lid has a 3/4 inch central hole, and surrounding it out towards the rim is a ring of smaller pencil-sized holes. The inspiration for this came from a commercial product I saw a few years ago.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0031I0PAI/?tag=cpf0b6-20

"$0.49 + $4.49 shipping" - you can see why I make my own!

As it happens, none of the wide-mouth glass jars I've seen have flat bottoms, so I have to do that by myself too. In my chosen jar I put a bit of junk wax - enough when melted to completely cover the bottom. Set inside a 200 degree oven it melts and makes the smooth flat surface I need to hold my candle or candle holder. After it cools and hardens, it's ready to go. Set the candle inside, centered as well as possible. Light the candle with a long match or long-snouted butane lighter, and screw on the lid. Hot gas from the flame flows straight up the central hole, and incoming air flows smoothly down the sides. If you've done everything right, the flame is as steady as a rock - it looks like a glowing little light bulb without a hint of a flicker. And IMO it's pretty darned safe! No open flame, and there is no liquid fuel to instantly set the room afire if it gets knocked over.

The screw-on lid is a frill, and one I tried just to see how much trouble it was. (quite a lot, actually) I could have used a six inch square of heavy aluminum foil in which I'd precut the central hole. Carefully fold the foil (with the hole centered) over the mouth of the glass containr to mark things, then take it back off and cut around the mark with scissors. Back on again, and punch the holes with a sharp pencil. Voila! It's ready for the candle.

By using aluminum foil any old vase or jar will do - it just needs to be clear glass and have an opening large enough for your hand to go inside while holding the candle.

Now to the flashlight. In my view there is no competition - they're better. A 8 lumen beam pointed at a white ceiling makes plenty of light to navigate, and without a naked flame to mess up your eyesight.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PZPB2I/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Total piece of crap of a flashlight except for one thing - it has a low-draw PR LED bulb. I've run one of these for several days - day and night - on one D cell alkaline. If you buy one of them shipped with the batteries, check to see the bulb base wasn't smashed during transport. Lots are! The ones without an included battery are better prospects. Walmart is now selling a similar one which doesn't have quite as good an LED bulb, but the flashlight itself is better - it has a screw-on bulb protector.

Now a person can buy 2-3 of these cheap LED flashlights for the cost of one big candle. And they can be run in perfect safety. Opinions vary, but as I said earlier, I'll take the flashlight every time.

Now on to the latest "emergency lighting".

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005QGEAUY/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I've never seen one, but I suppose it would work fine.

Again, I've been making my own. Buy one of those solar LED sidewalk lights. Take out the cheap AAA or AA or 3/4 AA nicad and throw it away. Replace the AAA or AA with alkalines, and you've got a really cheap emergency light. My test run of one of them had over 100 non-stop hours of decent light from a single AAA battery.

To make a long-run nightlight for your cabin in the backwoods, drill a hole in the side of the little hockey puck light. Wire up a single D-cell battery holder. I use double stick tape to hold the light and battery to a flat wood or sheet metal board, but velcro under the light would allow recharging if you'd chosen a nicad.

The LEDs in my hockey puck lights varied from 20 ma down to 5 ma. The latter was on orange Halloween lights I got at Dollar Tree last year. I've no idea how long a good D cell would run a 5 ma lamp, but it's got to be something measured in non-stop weeks. That's because I got over ten days of light from one of those Eveready 1 D flashlights at 70 ma.