Batteries and solar power charging

[terjee]

Some do have pass though charging but that will increase the probability of a charge error with the secondary device. Mycharge Rugged Power and the Nitecore F1 both have pass though charging and solar compatable.

Was thinking more along the lines of a powerbank that used the internal battery to pick up the slack when solar is low for example, so you'd get increased reliability, not reduced. Similar to what you'd see with a line interactive UPS for example.

Good points btw.

 

[Woods Walker]

Was thinking more along the lines of a powerbank that used the internal battery to pick up the slack when solar is low for example, so you'd get increased reliability, not reduced. Similar to what you'd see with a line interactive UPS for example.

Good points btw.

Here is the pass though charging info on the F1 which is one of my most overall reliable solar charger and powerbank.

"The Intelligent Charging1. F1 can automatically identify the type of the installed battery. Under sufficient input power, F1 will charge abattery of large capacity in the slot with 1000mA current, or a battery of small capacity in the slot with500mA current.2. F1 features intelligent USB charging management system. Under sufficient input power, F1 cansimultaneously charge a battery in the slot and a connected external device (with 1000mA current). Withlower input power, F1 can charge the battery with 500mA current, and charge the external device with1000mA current.3. With the input power insufficient to support charging two items simultaneously, F1 will charge the batteryonly with 500mA current. After battery charging completed, F1 will proceed to charge the connectedexternal device."

 

[Weylan]

10W 6V panel
4x AA
Nitecore F2

Panel tied to 4AA cells
Nitecore f2 can charge 2x 18650.

Nite core is powered by the 4AA batteries.

This is a little DIY, but not bad.

The trick here is the F2 can do pass through charging.
The solar pannel can charge the AA batteries and take variances in sun and shade. And you unplug the AA cells from the solar panel when not in use.

The nite core can be used and will take any extra charge not in use and charge the 2x 18650s. But if you need to charge something the F2 will pull from 18650s. But if the device does not need much power, the 18650s will charge if the F2 is connected to the AA batteries.

I do this and it works.
My set up is a little different though.

I do 10W 6V pannel.
4x D
F1 charger.

I can charge 18650s one at a time, and charge an iPhone, or iPad.

I can charge an iPhone from dead easily and last the weekend.

This setup is like $70.

I know you can get more complicated. But you really have to look at your needs and this is a very minimal approach.

 

[Woods Walker]

The F2 proved to be a total solar failure in my testing. It's one of the worst so far. If the sun is interpreted it shuts down totally and surprisingly. If the interruption or reduction in power goes on for 1 minutes (sometimes 2 but other times under 1) it goes into a fatal solar crash aka charge error. It then needs to be unplugged to be reset. Totally not solar compatible unless the sky is cloudless or it's babied constantly. I am doing a review of the F2 and was disappointed in this.

The pass through charge function actually causes issues for the F1 but have not gotten around to testing this on the F2. iPhones are no longer solar compatible after a recent update. Will go through that in the upcoming thread. Any interruption on power triggers this error and it happens even more so with pass through charging in my testing as interruption are easier.

The pass through charge error with the F1 isn't fatal. When the power drips I believe the F1 charges at .5 amps sending the rest of the power to the device (tested and verified for my original F1 review). But what I didn't know during the initial F1 review is any interruption in power triggers that .5 amp charging if the pass though is being used or not. So very easily the F1 goes from a 1 amp charger to a .5 amp charger and a single cloud is enough to do this. It doesn't self recover to 1 A once the sun increase etc etc. If there isn't good sky the 1 amp charge is hard to reset requiring multiple resets. Basically it's a fatalistically dependable (always takes a charge via solar) .5 amp charger but 1 A charging is very unreliable as it is so prone to slipping and staying at .5 amp. Once reset it can go back to 1 amp however the charge error is easily triggered. One solution is to do a pass through charge into a powerbank etc etc which I tested. Then the extra potential power wouldn't be lost.

 

[Weylan]

I agree that the F1 seems to be better without some kind of buffer. This is why I use the 4D cells as my buffer between the solar panel and the F1 charger or battery pack charging. The F2 in this configuration is great because I have the batteries between and I also have family that uses too many batteries in a night, 3x Phone, 2x iPads, lighting, headlights. So you can make hay while the sun shines and get as much charged as possible. And the F2 gives you the possibility 2 charge 2 18650 at the same time.

But like you said this only works if you have the batteries as buffer.

 

[eh4]

Seriously consider only getting solar panels that use Sunpower cells.
Read up on Sunpower solar cells to see why.
There's a number of relatively cheap, and very light weight 5v solar panels on Amazon that use Sunpower cells.
The best watts/weight/cost ratio that I'm aware of is 10 watts for 6 oz. and about 60$

 

[Woods Walker]

Seriously consider only getting solar panels that use Sunpower cells.
Read up on Sunpower solar cells to see why.
There's a number of relatively cheap, and very light weight 5v solar panels on Amazon that use Sunpower cells.
The best watts/weight/cost ratio that I'm aware of is 10 watts for 6 oz. and about 60$

I did a review of an ECEEN which uses Sunpower panels and working on the post now. I liked them.

 

[blah9]

Plenty of good info in this thread. I have the same ECEEN panels and an F1 charger. Seem to be pretty happy with the setup for my basic needs. Good to know about the reduced charging current but I like the idea of passing through to another powerbank simultaneously.

 

[Woods Walker]

Plenty of good info in this thread. I have the same ECEEN panels and an F1 charger. Seem to be pretty happy with the setup for my basic needs. Good to know about the reduced charging current but I like the idea of passing through to another powerbank simultaneously.

ECEEN does have one major advantage and I even contacted the company to verify it was a good design feature and not just a lucky fluke with my panel. The charger resets every 3 minutes. This self corrects every single charging error I could toss at it from the infamous ""This accessory may not be supported" IOS 10 error to the crash happy Nitecore F2. It should also correct the F1 .5A reduction but never tested for that. Basically the best and often only fix for a charge error is to reset the powerbank/phone/charger by unplugging then plugging back in. The ECEEN does this automatically every 3 minutes so the battery always gets the best possible charge rate and clearing of fatal errors. They originally did it as iPhones would default to a lower charge level if a passing cloud triggers the reduction.

Once the sun comes out the phone would be stuck on the lower amp charging level. By auto resetting the phone would recover to the higher amp level or as is the case with the new IOS update back to actually charging.The sunpower panels work in very very low light for a high efficiency panel. Just a very very good panel. Working on the written part of the ECEEN 10 watt panel review this week. I am officially changing over from Allpowers to ECEEN for my preps. A solar panel is like a figure 4 dead-fall trap. It is working for you till accidentally tripped. After that it is just a rock on the ground till reset. Same goes for solar panels. Working for you until there is a charge error. So the ECEEN is a figure 4 trap that auto resets. LOL! I am going to use that line in the written review.

I tested the VC2 using the powerbank function again but this time with a Sanyo unprotected red 3500 mAh 18650. I got a 25% increase on my Air 2 iPad. Dang good. It is still slower than the MC1 plus and MC1 plus ANT for solar as they more reliably charge at 1A than the VC2 but am really liking the Xtar VC2 on many levels.

 

[blah9]

Haha awesome, thanks for the info! Hopefully I'll be able to see your review although I'm not on CPF that often sometimes. I'm really glad that my panel should do that as well then.

 

[ssanasisredna]

No this is not why expensive USB chargers don't use MPPT. They don't use it because implementation is generally expensive and when you look at low power solar charging systems, the small benefit you will get (20-25% over normal temp ranges) is not worth it. You are better off adding more panel in most cases.

MPPT has even been implemented into chip sets targeted towards cell phone charging where maximum size is fixed and hence extracting the most power is important.

MPPT works over the whole range of the solar panel, so while there may be points where you limit output current because the max the solar panel can supply exceeds that of the device being charged, the rest of the time that is probably not the case.

Keep in mind that there are issues with using any kind of MPPT when it comes to charging USB devices or 18650s. MPPT is generally used in residential, commercial, and utility systems, where rather large amounts of power can be dumped back on the grid. This is advantageous, since it improves the return on investment in the system. But charging USB devices and 18650s is different. Neither can simply take all you can dump on them. USB devices (like phones) can generally only take specific amounts of current. And 18650s (and other Li-Ion batteries) have definite limits on charging current. In other words, you DON'T want something that is going to force more current through these devices when the sun gets bright just because the power is now 'there' to do so. That's why even expensive USB chargers don't use MPPT.

 

[ssanasisredna]

There is a lot of truth to this and how effective MPPT can be versus simple PWM can come down to how much time the panel is in full sun versus shade/low power. It is possible to design an MPPT system that if effective over wide power ranges and even just shunts the panel to the load when running the MPPT switcher no longer makes sense. It's not free and not something that typically would be in an off-the-shelf generic charger, but an application specific unit.

And MPPT digital controllers have a microprocessor inside that drains power on its own, so if you're already dealing with small amounts of current, the MPPT controllers might be doing more harm, than good, vis-a-vis useable current going to your devices.

PWM controllers for something like my 60w rigid setup made more sense, especially economical sense.

Chris

 

[ssanasisredna]

$1000 changes everything. For that money, charging laptops is well within the realm.

At that price, you really need to consider bulk storage. Some portability is a concern, so I suggest something in the order of a 25AH LiFeP04 12V battery. You can go smaller or larger as needed or desired.

You are going to be into 100W+ in solar panels, again, you know what you want. Foldable will never be reliable. Go for semi-ridged that can take some abuse, but will need your life goals. On the larger ones, look for being able to replace external wires.

Charge controller -- Pick something good (Morningstar or similar), not the cheapest. I would stick to PWM, but it's your choice on spreading money versus more panel versus performance.

Leave budget for good cables, mounts, and an inverter and find a convenient charger that takes 12V (variable 12V). Count on replacing the charger a few times over 10 years.

Hi gents I have decided for this project to stick to 5v systems and charging smaller devices, batteries up to 18650's. (Laptops and heavier items off the list, I'll use mini generators and powerpaks for home type SHTF) I'm also not looking for ultralight backpackable version so much now. Chasing something still mobile but heavier duty/more durable would be good. My budget is $1000 so after a decent setup. I don't need lots of power but would pay for the ultimate in durability. Have been checking out the lifetime of solar panels and wondered if its reasonable to assume these panels( and their electronic parts) might make the 10 year mark? I am checking out the links for goalzero etc and will see what I can come up with.

 

[eh4]

http://www.batteryspace.com/105-350...ntroller-with-mppt-for-lithium-batteries.aspx

 

[eh4]

Wuups, ok for 1000$ and only looking to keep 5v electronics going, what about going modular, redundant and something like several of the Nitecore F2 and several folding panels? Then you could do something else with the other 600, 700-900$.
I haven't used any GoalZero, but from reading the stats of watts, weight, and price, I really think one could do a lot better. Not to be harsh but I feel like they're in the Bear Grylls range of the market, that's where they are in the shelf at Cabela's anyways.
A tube of silicone caulk and some aluminum sheet for heat sinking could make sume of the deals you can find online into something cheaper, more durable, and more powerful than many of these early pioneers that have been sitting in their brand recognition for a while now.

 

[mickb]

Thanks again gents, just revisting this thread. So I was looking to get some chargers that are basic and solar compatibale and won't keep turning themselves off as per some of the concerns mentioned above.

I saw the xtra Mc1 recommended above. The literature I am reading lists the Li-on 18650 and 14500 I use but can it also be used for eneloops? Would be handy if so...

Failing that I see the Klarus K-1 looks pretty simple and lists all the Li-on and Nimh batteries, anyone know if this would handle solar reliably?

I'll probably pick up a few of whatever the best recommendation is.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Thanks again gents, just revisting this thread. So I was looking to get some chargers that are basic and solar compatibale and won't keep turning themselves off as per some of the concerns mentioned above.

I saw the xtra Mc1 recommended above. The literature I am reading lists the Li-on 18650 and 14500 I use but can it also be used for eneloops? Would be handy if so...

Failing that I see the Klarus K-1 looks pretty simple and lists all the Li-on and Nimh batteries, anyone know if this would handle solar reliably?

I'll probably pick up a few of whatever the best recommendation is.

No, unfortunately, the Xtar MC1 (500mA), Xtar MC1+ (500mA/1A) and Xtar MC1+ ANT (voltage meter, 500mA/1A) chargers are all only lithium-ion chargers and don't do NiMH. If you want a smaller, cheaper charger that is a single bay, does NiMH and li-ion, but only in the AA/14500 sizes, or smaller, look to the Xtar XP1 Hummingbird USB charger.

It does 250mA and 500mA, so it's good for the 14500/AA sizes, the 18350 li-ion high current cells, the 16340 size and the lowly 10440/AAA size.

You can then get an Xtar MC1+, or even ANT and use those for your 18650 size li-ions, or even smaller, although that 500mA rate is probably a tad high for 16340s and definitely too high for the 10440s, if you run those.

For about $20, you have two good chargers that work with smaller USB folding solar panels.

Since you're in Australia, look to GearBest for the Liitokala Lii 100s and/or 202s. While they both have their deficiencies, they're inexpensive, so you can buy a few of them for not a lot of cash. Their rates are both 500mA/1A, but they are true multi-chemistry, multi-voltage chargers that double as so-so power banks in a pinch. Still 500mA is a bit high for some cells, but you're covering a lot of your bases.

These chargers are cheap to own and if you pick correctly, you can have emergency charging for not a lot of money.

Chris

 

[Krumbbs1976]

Get a Goal Zero Nomad plus they just came out with a newer model last year it's super thin and pretty darn durable. And just FYI if you have a nice thrower flashlight you can actually shine it on the panel and charge whatever battery you need LOL I used my tm26 from Nightcore to charge my phone up long enough to get out a text!