Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

[JohnnyLunar]

Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

So here is how it started:

I was looking at my plastic bag full of about 20 depleted CR123 batteries, wondering if I could use them for anything. I used my multimeter to test all the batteries, and found the lowest voltage battery in the bag - a Surefire sitting at about 2.4v. This battery would not light up any of my 1xCR123 lights, incandescent or LED, no matter which mode I tried.

I then started reading many "Battery Vampire" threads here on CPF. I do not own any of the listed CR123 vampire lights discussed, so I lost heart. Then I kept thinking about 5mm LED lights (such as my Fenix EO1) that drain AAA batteries down like crazy. My mind drifted to the 5mm LED ring on my Surefire A2. I have some CR123 dummy cells sitting around, and wondered if a single depleted CR123 paired with a dummy cell would light up the LED ring in the A2.

I put in the 2.4v battery, then the dummy cell, screwed on the tailcap and pressed the switch. There in my hand, I saw the faintest glowing little orb of blue-ish white light - perhaps .25 lumen. It works.

So now the questions:

1. Has anyone else realized the A2 can be used with a depleted CR123 and a dummy cell to barely light up the LED ring?

And more importantly...

2. Is this safe? Am I risking damage/danger with either the battery or the light?

 

[kramer5150]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

If you are referring to the older incan A2, the 5mm LEDs are resistor-direct driven. So yes they will run the cell down to near-nothing. I have done it before, but I don't make it a habit. I just toss the cells into the recycle bin... and try not to think about it much. The general consensus is that bad things can happen when you deplete Lithium cells down that far. Although with a single cel + dummy, you are safer than with two cells.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

Yes, this an original incan A2, but not the oldest flat-sided model, if that matters. I wouldn't want to, nor would I see the point of, running these cells down below 2.0v or so. I just have so many 2.5-2.8v Surefire CRx123 cells laying around with nothing to put them in. I know the dangers of using 2 depleted cells in series, and I would never try that. But this 1xCR123 with dummy cell setup seems to be safe, but I will defer to the experts. This newly-discovered A2 Vampire might just make the perfect bedside light for middle of the night pitch-black bathroom trips, to not wake my wife : )

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

Well, after some more reading, I thought I'd try a Gerber Omnivore as a dedicated battery vampire, since it takes AA, AAA, and CR123 batteries, and people have mentioned it runs just fine on very depleted cells. I bought one at a nearby REI, got home and put the most depleted CR123 battery I have in it. It lights up barely for about 2 seconds, then fades to black. I put this same battery back into the Surefire A2 with a dummy cell, and sure enough, it just barely lights up the LED ring, and stays on. I think I'll take the Omnivore back, since the main reason I bought it was to be a CR123 vampire.

It just seems like a shame to use such an expensive and technically advanced and unique light like the A2 for the purpose of just draining old cells.

 

[archimedes]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

Peak Logan 17500 QTC also takes AA, AAA, and CR123A (with adapters), and runs for a long time on depleted cells ....

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

Peak Logan 17500 QTC also takes AA, AAA, and CR123A (with adapters), and runs for a long time on depleted cells ....

That looks like a beautiful and handy little light, but at that price, plus the multi-battery option...seems like overkill for a dedicated battery vampire. The Zebralight SC80 looks like a pretty decent option at a slightly better price point, but still way overkill for a vampire only. This Omnivore was only $27, but the "optic" and the LED make a hideous bright blue orb with rings all around it, plus it won't light up on CR123 cells that are sitting at less than 2.6v or so. Not quite what I'd call a true vampire.

I might have to get one of calipsoii's A2 rings in warm white, just to have a 3x5mm, warm-tint, single CR123 vampire that will run cells down to the last drop.

 

[Kestrel]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

I've merged this A2 thread from yesterday with the existing "Battery Vampire" thread.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

So the first post in this thread says the list was "*LAST UPDATED 12/05/09*".

Have there been any comprehensive lists compiled since then? For instance, the A2 Aviator isn't listed anywhere on that list, but now I see there has been much consensus that it will in fact eat dead CR123s.

 

[think2x]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

I have some CR123 dummy cells sitting around, and wondered if a single depleted CR123 paired with a dummy cell would light up the LED ring in the A2.

I put in the 2.4v battery, then the dummy cell, screwed on the tailcap and pressed the switch. There in my hand, I saw the faintest glowing little orb of blue-ish white light - perhaps .25 lumen. It works.

So now the questions:

1. Has anyone else realized the A2 can be used with a depleted CR123 and a dummy cell to barely light up the LED ring?

This got me curious also. The new A2L wont light with a 2.5v cell so I tried a 2.8v and still wouldn't light but when I tried a 3.0v and a fresh new single primary(3.3v) it will light the red leds in TWO modes instead of lighting the SSC P4. Essentially in a pinch you could use the A2L-RD as a floody 2 level RED light (like my L1-RD)

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?

If the battery is low enough you could use the circuit in a 1.5v boosted light with a 123 cell as if depleted enough it can't put out enough current to hurt the LED.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

Well, I found another vampire - a Thrunite XM-L D26 drop-in, rated at 2.7v-4.2v input voltage. It is running right now on a Surefire CR123A that was sitting at about 2.4v, along with a dummy cell, in a Surefire C2. All 3 levels work...although the levels are faint, ghostly, and almost-not-on. But you can still barely see the differences between the levels. Even with the drop-in on "high", all it does it change the XM-L die from yellow to soft white. You can literally look very closely at it and see every detail of the XM-L. This setup does not light up a 6PL or a Streamlight Polytac LED, although both of those lit up softly on a cell sitting around 2.6v. The A2 Aviator Incan still has it's LEDs glowing softly on this 2.4v cell and a dummy.

 

[HighlanderNorth]

Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

Vampires don't feed on dead animals. They feed on live ones.

You haven't watched enough horror movies!!!

For 1xCR123 I would add the Dorcy 1 watt CR123. It will emit a fair amount of light on batteries that are completely dead in my other lights.

Toshi

In the 1st season of "The Walking Dead", there were zombies eating a dead horse in the city, but then again, zombies and vampires have different diets, as vampires stick to a liquid diet and they do prefer it fresh and warm!

But that has asolotely nothing to do with the subject here, so:

What I am gathering here , is that its OK to use up the last bit of charge in a SINGLE Cr123 light, but NOT to do so in a 2 or more CR123 light. That seemed to be in dispute for a few minutes, but then seemed to be cleared up decisively. Fortunately, I dont use CR123's in ANY of my lights that will take 2 or more CR123's, as I use 18650's in them instead, but I do use ONLY primary CR123's in my single CR123 sized lights, even though I do own a few RCR123's. So I'm glad to hear it shouldnt be a problem to run single CR123's down in single CR123 lights, because thats what I have been doing all along with my BC-10.

I think my BC-10 seems to be a good vampire, but I havent used up batteries til they completely died with it, as I usually throw the CR123 out soon after regulation prevents it from running on high anymore, because I worry about how much battery life is left and whether i'll get stuck with a light that doesnt work even on low soon after, and I havent owned my other single CR123 lights long enough yet to be able to say whether they are good at using up the last drops of energy or not.

So you guys tell me, are the following single battery lights considered good vampires: PC-10, BC-10, D25C Ti, PA-10(AA), Thrunite Ti(AAA), Olight/iTp i3(AAA), Titanium Innovations Illumina-Ti(AAA)?

Thanks

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

Olight/iTp i3(AAA)

If this light is similar to the Maratac AAA (and I think it is), it is a VERY good vampire indeed. I have used my Maratac AAA with very depleted lithium and alkaline AAA's just to see if it would still light up, and it does. You start to lose any visible difference between high and medium, but it will run on low mode for days.

So I'm glad to hear it shouldnt be a problem to run single CR123's down in single CR123 lights, because thats what I have been doing all along with my BC-10.

I'm no expert, but from what I gather, this is at least safer than running multiple depleted cells in a series. Also, if you don't have a 1xCR123 vampire light, but you have a 2xCR123 vampire light, a CR123 dummy cell can be used in the light along with the depleted battery. That's what I've been doing in my A2 Incan.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the main danger in multi-cell lights is using 2 or more batteries that are sitting at different voltages - i.e. using 1 fresh CR123 and one depleted CR123 in the same light.

 

[Flying Turtle]

Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

My latest favorite vampire for AA's, along with being a favorite for just about everythlng is the Nitecore D11.2. The already great low level goes down to almost nothing, but still relights with a depleted battery. The only problem is finding time for vampire duty when the light is so good on a fresh battery.

Geoff

 

[reppans]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the main danger in multi-cell lights is using 2 or more batteries that are sitting at different voltages - i.e. using 1 fresh CR123 and one depleted CR123 in the same light.

From what I understand (and somebody please feel free to correct me), the real risk in multi-cell configs is the reverse charge. One cell will always deplete faster than the other and the weaker will continue to lose voltage till it goes past zero and actually starts to charge in reverse. I believe the reverse polarity charging is what can explode a lithium and will leak an alkaline.

Even if cells are matched, slight manufacturing variances, by definition, mean one will deplete faster than the other. However, the greater the imbalance between the two, the greater the power of the reverse charge.... and kaboom?

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I'd vote for Quark low voltage head with a AA and 123 tube, and a AAA>AA spacer. This will drain just pretty much anything with an operating voltage 0.9-4.2 and a 1ma moonlight mode and 10ma low mode.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

So looking around on Lighthound, I found a Solarforce LC-1 Cree R5 3-mode P60 drop-in that is listed with an input voltage of 0.8V-4.2V. Does that mean it will light up with a CR123 that has anything more than 0.8V left in it? If so, this might be the perfect battery vampire drop-in. I might have to get a Solarforce L2M host and this drop-in, and have a dedicated little CR123 vampire. Anyone have any experience with this drop-in?

 

[nbp]

Go to the google bar and punch in "Build yer own p60 battery vampire". Read that thread and build one. It's basically exactly what you want and cost about $2.

Can't believe Kestrel didn't mention that one. Slacker. :nana:

He must have been in another subforum, fighting the 'good fight' and keeping the forums safe for all us innocent flashaholics.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

Go to the google bar and punch in "Build yer own p60 battery vampire". Read that thread and build one. It's basically exactly what you want and cost about $2.

Yeah, I saw that, but it would require me to purposely sacrifice one of my perfectly good P60 lamps (don't have any burned-out P60s laying around). For about half the price of a Surefire P60 lamp assembly, you can buy the Solarforce drop-in I mentioned above that seems to run on inputs as low as 0.8V. And you get 3 modes. Seems like a pretty decent option.

 

[nbp]

Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..

Yeah, I saw that, but it would require me to purposely sacrifice one of my perfectly good P60 lamps (don't have any burned-out P60s laying around). For about half the price of a Surefire P60 lamp assembly, you can buy the Solarforce drop-in I mentioned above that seems to run on inputs as low as 0.8V. And you get 3 modes. Seems like a pretty decent option.

Sometimes people will send you burned out lamp assemblies for free on the MP since they have no use for them. Anyways, it's a fun little project and it makes a great battery vampire that costs very little. Multimode seems useless when you are dealing with virtually dead batteries to begin with; the point is to squeeze just that last bit of juice out and get a small but usable amount of light from them. You can pick the 5mm of your choice and go to town. I liked mine. :shrug:

 

[reppans]

..For about half the price of a Surefire P60 lamp assembly, you can buy the Solarforce drop-in I mentioned above that seems to run on inputs as low as 0.8V. And you get 3 modes. Seems like a pretty decent option.

The voltage range might be OK, but it may also depend on drop-in's regulation and 3 mode's spacing. If the lower end modes are not low enough, a near dead battery may not be have enough amperage to power the lowest mode. If the lowest mode is too low, then it may take a long long time, and/or not enough illumination, to kill the batt.

The Quark has tightly spaced lower modes, which can sequentially be stepped down as the battery is unable support the next higher level. med 20 lms/ 50 ma - low 4 lms/ 10 ma - moonlight 0.2 lms/ 1 ma. should be able to squeeze every last drop.... well to 0.9V.