beginner road bike???

Steve K

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good points about comfy bikes. I'm partial to the Raleigh's from the mid 70's, but the modern Trek Pilots and Specialized Roubaix's look attractive. Especially the part about having room for a decent sized tire, which gets more important for those who aren't built like a pro racer.

I'm also a fan of the touring bikes like the Trek 520 or the Cannondale. Not sure how that fits in with the anticipated use, though.

Steve K
 

mechBgon

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I advise not worrying about your physique. Bumblebees aren't supposed to be able to fly, and they fly anyway. Have fun, be social, play to your strengths. :thumbsup:

As for the bike, $700 is at the low end of the road-bike spectrum at most bike shops. Specialized's base-model '08 Allez is $770, IIRC, and I think the base-model Trek is in that area too. A used bike that's in good condition and fits well could be your best bet.

There's a lot to know about assessing used bikes. I've seen lots of people get burned in various ways. Frame damage, worn-out parts that need replacement for safety and functionality, bikes where you can't get replacement parts for the drivetrain anymore... :( This is where it helps to be on a first-name basis with a trustworthy mechanic and know his favorite brand of beer :naughty: (or chocolate milk, in my case). Shops vary, but I never had a problem taking a minute or two to look over a used bike if someone asked.
 

PhotonAddict

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A test ride in the parking lot is a bit short - around the block might be better. Regardless both will be too short to really tell if a bike is ideal for you so it really helps to try the different bikes in your price range so that you can at least compare them to each and make a somewhat informed decision based on what is available. In addition, as you ride more of them you will get a better feel for characteristics you really like.

A few things to look out for when you test ride (i'm assuming a road bike with drop handlebars):
- make sure you are trying the right size frame and the saddle is at the correct height. If it doesn't feel right, your legs feel cramped or your stretching for the pedals or your hips are rocking as you pedal, don't be afraid to ask the salesperson to make additional adjustments.
- try riding with your hands at different positions on the handlebar... brake hoods, drops, etc. and make sure you're not stretching to reach it otherwise your back and shoulders will hate you.
- try riding standing and sitting at both slow speeds and in a sort of mini-sprint if possible to see if you're still comfortable and it's not difficult to control the bike.
- try little things like shifting gears and reaching for where the water bottle would be on the bike.
- try cornering at different speeds to see if it is manouverable enough without feeling too skittish.

By no means an exhaustive list (others will probably have some additional suggestions) but a good place to start..
If things don't sit right with you mention it to the salesperson - sometimes the shifting is a little iffy on demo bikes because they haven't been adjusted properly. Also they may be willing to change the stem on the bike to make minor adjustments to your upper body position if you decide to buy. There are limits though, using a radically shorter or longer stem will affect the way the bike handles.

Aside from Trek, Specialized and Cannondale, manufacturers like Jamis, Fuji and Kona also offer alternatives in your price range with the more relaxed geometry that suits the kind of riding you describe. Not all stores will carry them though. Sometimes a shop may be willing to make a deal on an older model they have in stock.
 
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PhotonAddict

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oh, and the others are right about not worrying about your muscular build. It's not a fit problem nor will it affect how much you enjoy the sport. I'm sure you've seen or met folks in you other sporting activities who were very capable in spite of not having the ideal physique for their sport - cycling is no different. One of my cycling buddies is 6'2 and almost 220lbs of solid muscle and one of the strongest cyclists I've ever met with the cardiovascular system of a horse.

With regards to cycling being hard on your knees - proper saddle height and shoe/cleat adjustment make a real difference here (again, proper fit). Also, low pedaling rpms increases stress on the knees. Everyone is a little different, but a good place to start is to try to keep your cadence around the 80-90 rpm range. A cyclometer with a cadence function will can help you with this (I have a Cateye Astrale). If you cadence starts drifting towards the 70s or below and your straining against the pedals it's time to shift to a lower gear and spin the pedals a little faster to maintain your speed. It will feel odd at first but as your technique improves it will seem like second nature.
 

MrMimizu

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I've been riding for since I was a child and had a 21speed road bike for about 15 years then a hybrid for about 5.
Two years ago i switched to a recumbent. A Bacchetta Agio to be exact, I'm looking at switching to a shorter recumbent though.
Recumbents cost a lot more vs a "regular" bike but I felt it was worth it.
Currently my bike costs $1400 new. It's considered a lower end beginner bike.
My bike is really comfy since I have a nice wide padded seat. Because I'm in a reclined position, my hands and wrists don't need to bear my weight.
My neck is also in a more natural position compared to my old road racer. Riding 75km around Toronto is easy.

There are drawbacks to owning a recumbent though.
The stigma that recumbents aren't real bikes. Often you'll be ridiculed by ignorant people on diamond frame bikes.
You'll get comments from people who call you lazy, even though you sped past them at high speed and they had to catch up to you 10 minutes later when you stopped to make a phone call.
You can't jump off your bike in an emergency situation. ie, just before that woman is about to turn left into you.
Recumbents are often heavier than diamond frame bikes. Mine is about 32lbs. Think you can get a diaomnd frame thats about 7-10lbs ligther for half the price or less.
Storage can be a problem due to increased length(7' for the agio) and width of the large seat.
The potential to damage your knees is high in beginners. Too easy to power your way up hills and to accelerate by pushing against the seat back. higher rpm pedalling is essential here.


Here are some linksto a few manufacturers and to a good recumbent website/forum.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/
www.bacchettabikes.com
http://ransbikes.com/
 
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cy

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a recumbent would not be a good choice for a first bike. especially if you want to ride with a group of other riders.

in no way am I saying recumbent are not good bikes as I ride a Lightning F-40. starting to ride my mountain bike again, after a 3 year hiatus. it's a Fisher Sugar 1 ordered by one of my riding buddies, who's now a bike shop owner.

way back when I lived on my bike.... we rode every spare moment. got up at 4:30am, rode 45miles. then went in to work. then rode our mountain bikes at night. We'd ride Turkey Mountain and then go bomb the parking garages.

We'd all sneak in pass the guards, then ride 10+ floors up to top level than bomb down at speed. right pass the guard who'd be yelling at us. We'd all be doing crazy moves like doing bunny hops at speed over curbs. if you missed, you'd get hurt. so we didn't miss...

we all put in huge trail miles. finally broke the frame on my first Fisher Mountain bike. just finished an epic ride around Lake Green Leaf which backs up to Camp Gruber. this was our annual new years day ride. which took the better part of the day to complete. anyways... after the ride, one of my buddies said... your frame it's busted! I thought.. sure thing, BS.... looked down and it was broken. :sick2:

there was a pack of 10 or so of us riders. we'd do crazy rides like through the drainage sewers. guess who didn't have lights? anyway.... out of our small group of riders. two went on to open successful bike shops in Tulsa.

We'd put in 6k-8k miles per year. amazingly that mileage was low compared to serious road racers.
 
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jtr1962

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We'd put in 6k-8k miles per year. amazingly that mileage was low compared to serious road racers.
Yikes! I did do 5k miles in one year, but most years were more like 3k to 4k. That gradually dropped as I had other things to do, and last few years I fell under 1k, but in 2007 I did almost 1200 miles. So far this year I only did 141.6 miles (mostly due to weather, flats, and having almost zero energy for January and February). With any luck I'll be back to 300 miles a month by May, and hopefully at least 2000 miles for the year.

BTW, how is the F40? I imagine it can do some serious speed but is it practical from a day to day standpoint?
 

Robocop

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The friend of my g/f who was her coach has just called her and asked how I was doing. He currently has a bike costing somewhere close to 6k and he has many others as well. He said to let him check his shop and he may be able to find parts to put together a pretty nice bike.

I am sure he knows what he is doing and I have plans to visit him so he can measure my fit and we will see how it goes. I am also going to a local shop this weekend to check into the lay-away program for making payments on a bike. We shall see how it goes and wish me luck.
 

mechBgon

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The friend of my g/f who was her coach has just called her and asked how I was doing. He currently has a bike costing somewhere close to 6k and he has many others as well. He said to let him check his shop and he may be able to find parts to put together a pretty nice bike.

I am sure he knows what he is doing and I have plans to visit him so he can measure my fit and we will see how it goes. I am also going to a local shop this weekend to check into the lay-away program for making payments on a bike. We shall see how it goes and wish me luck.

Sounds like you're in good hands :)

What about an automatic shifter? :ironic:

The constant shifting would drive me nuts.

The behavior of automatic shifters on bikes would drive you nuts too, I think :grin2: Try one out, and see how well it handles an out-of-the-saddle sprint at 30mph/50kph or higher.

I'll stick with my Ultegra 2x10 manual rig for performance road riding. What's wrong with being nuts, anyway?
 
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nbp

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And swing by your local news stand and pick up the April edition of Bicycling magazine. Its the 2008 Buyers Guide and reviews 128 bikes from all different types of riding needs, and may help give you a nice overview of what you will be looking at in different categories as far as features and cost. Happy riding.
 

Robocop

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After a long day of shopping I realized real quickly that all bike shops are not the same. The first shop I checked did not offer to fit me or even guess and quickly tried to sale me something I did not want.

The second shop did try to fit me however all they did was to make me stand on a wall chart with a stick between my legs...moved the stick around a little and said '52". After showing me many expensive bikes I decided to try one last shop. It was almost closing time when I walked in however the owner was very helpful and stayed late to assist me. He told me just by looking I was not a 52 frame and actually put me on a bike held to a rack type thing. He watched me pedal and measured all of my joints and stuff and said I was a "54" frame

I like the last shop the best as he seemed more exact and complete with measuring fit and actually tried to stay in my price range. He suggested a few bikes and I am researching the choices now. This shop also offers a payment or finance plan so I can put down a little and make a few payments while I ride my new bike. This option allows me to move up in cost a little however these are my first 3 choices I looked at. It is all latin to me so I am not sure the pros and cons of each bike but maybe others can give an opinion on these.....Links below

The best deal so far is the Scott Speedster 30 that was 1200 I believe and on sale for 800.....I actually rode the Trek on the fitting rack thing and it was this model the last shop said was a good beginners bike and the closest to my 800 dollar request.....I like the look and colors of the Lamond series. So for any experienced riders out there help me choose the best of these three for a true beginner.

http://www.lemondbikes.com/bikes/road_racing/ac_dc/tourmalet.php

http://scottusa.com/us_en/product/70/779/speedster_s30

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/road/1_series/12/
 

Robocop

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Also when it comes to fit all here seem to agree it is simply the most important thing for a customer to know. I do not know much about it however the first shop measured me in about 30 seconds and said 52 frame. The best shop took about 30 minutes watching me actually pedal a bike and took measurements of how I sat and rode. This shop said 54 frame and built my choices from there.

If I was to go with the first shops advice and rode a 52 while I was actually needing a 54 would it be that different anyway. I am curious as to how much difference in comfort a 2 inch mistake could have. If there is that much difference I am very happy I checked other shops. Is it common for so called custom bike shops to make mistakes in fitting?
 

jtr1962

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Of the three I'd probably go with the Scott Speedster by virtue of the 10-speed rear cluster. You'll be more likely to find a suitable ratio without jumping from one front chainring to another while still getting a very wide range. The only downside I'm seeing is that it has 34/50 chainrings in front. A 30/42/53 triple would be better. I have a 34/50 on one of my bikes. I find that the 50 is a little too high for normal riding given that my largest rear cog is 25 teeth. I can still take off from stoplights pretty quick, but only by virtue of my strong legs. I would imagine a beginner might want a lower first gear. I can get around the low-gear problem by running on the 34 tooth front chainring. However, the downside there is that I'm spinning out by the time I hit maybe 23 mph, a speed I often exceed. The Scott Speedster does have an 11-tooth rear cog though, so spinning out in the 34/11 combo wouldn't be a problem until around 25-26 mph. Unless your riding involves lots of downhills, you probably won't exceed this speed very often. A 42 tooth chainring is probably best for all around riding. You get a decent low gear but can also exceed 30 mph in top gear without spinning out. A 30/42/53 triple really gives you the best of all worlds. You can go super low on the 30-tooth chainring, and super fast of the 53-tooth one, while using the 42 for most riding.

Also, note that all my talk of gearing is biased by my own personal preferences. Some people don't mind going between front chainrings often. I hate it. It's not as quick as shifting in back. Besides that, the front ratios are widely spaced. Jumping from one chainring to the other means you have to shift down one or two gears in back anyway. For example, when I'm spinning out in my 34/12 combo and jumping to the 50-tooth front chainring, I have to shift the rear to the 15 tooth cog to keep my cadence within a decent range. That's why I usually stick to one chainring. I'll use the small one first part of a ride to spin and warm up. After that I'll jump to the big one for the rest of the ride. It would be easier if I had a 42-tooth ring that I could just remain in all the time. Also, remember that all of my riding is on urban roads where I need to change gears constantly. You may not experience the issues I've outlined if you ride on relatively flat roads with little need to slow or stop. And a lot depends upon your riding style. Mine is basically powering out of stoplights quickly until 20 mph, creeping up a more few mph over the next block or two, and cruising until I need to slow or stop again. Unfortunately, it's hard to cruise steady around here for more than a few blocks at a time unless one rides late at night.
 

Robocop

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As far as gears go I really have no idea as to what I would require or even like best. For some reason I have been more focused on weight of my choices however have found it hard to locate the total weight of many bikes I have seen online.

I had many questions for the shops I visited and most all agreed that my height to weight ratio would be hardest for longer uphill climbs. I have great muscle density and strong legs however I assumed proper gearing and lighter weight would be my best solution for this problem.

Seems as if the average weight of bikes in the 8oo to 1k range was about 20 lbs. Considering my weight of almost 200lbs would I really notice the difference between say an 18lb bike vs a 22lb bike on deep hill climbes? As a more stocky rider should I really be worrying about the lowest weight model?

I was also a little lost when it came to parts or attatchments such as shifters,brakes, forks ...etc: Most all shops advised I could go for a lighter bike with less quality parts or an average bike with better parts for close to the same budget. As an average rider with weekend rides and no desire to race would I really need super fancy shifters and derailers or other stuff?

Of all the bikes I looked at Trek suprised me the most as far as cost. With no experience Trek was the only name I recognized and I thought all Trek road bikes would surely be out of reach for me. I saw several in the 800 dollar range and many more jumping up to 1k or maybe 1200 dollars. I was also suprised to see many shops to allow financing a bike with no interest. I can afford to pay 200 per month and within half a year have a higher cost and quality bike paid for.

I also had no idea as to proper fit and the details involved with obtaining this fit. The best shop I found actually measured the length of my leg bones while I sat on a bike machine thing and also used some type of sliding ruler to measure the angles of my arms while leaning over pedaling. They said this was a basic fit and would go much more in depth after I actually chose a bike....amazing and much more involved than simply hopping on a bike and riding with a few friends.

So basically for me I guess an important question to ask is how important is the weight of a bike when choosing a model? What is a good weight for a bike in the 800 to say 1100 dollar range?
 

jtr1962

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Gearing is important insofar as you'll be less fatigued if you can find a gear you're comfortable in. With more ratios it's more likely you will. Not so in the good old days of 3-speeds. Even the five-gear rear clusters on older 10-speeds often didn't let you find the right gear. They tried to do a 2:1 range (14-28 teeth) with only five gears. The result was that the gears were too widely spaced, especially on the high end. You can get away with a 15% or even 20% jump in ratios in your lower gears, but for your higher cruising gears 10% or so between gears is optimal. A ten-gear 11-25 rear cluster gives you all this, and even has a wider range than the older five-gear clusters.

Regarding weight, let's put it this way-I'm maybe 30 pounds heavier than I was in my early 30s, and yes, I do notice that much weight, but mainly on the hills. For example, a hill I used to take at 17 mph now I can barely take at 13 mph, although to be fair probably 1 or 1.5 mph of that is due to poorer conditioning from riding less than I used. So once you factor out the difference in conditioning, we're talking at most a 3 mph difference on a fairly steep (about 4.5%) hill, or put another way, 30 pounds makes me about 18% slower on this hill. 4 pounds would make me less than 3% slower, or under half a mph, and only on a few of the steeper hills. So no, 4 pounds would hardly make any difference at all. You and the bike would weigh roughly 210 pounds give or take. 4 pounds is only 2% of this. On a really steep hill where you might only be going 8 or 10 mph 2% is not something even I would notice. On the level the extra weight will make zero difference. I'd say for the price range you're looking at 20 or 21 pounds if just fine. Weight in bikes is like speed in racing. You can get very light if you want but it'll cost you big time, and past a point there really isn't much advantage. The biggest gain really is going from a 30+ pound steel framed $99 department store bike to the ~20 pound $800-$1000 bikes that you're looking at. That's a noticable gain even for the casual rider. However, paying another $1000 to save perhaps 2 or 3 more pounds really isn't worth it unless you're in competition. Bike weight is probably more important for a lighter person. If you were a 4' 9" 80 pound female rather than a 5' 8" 190 pound male I might say 4 or 5 pounds would be fairly noticeable as it would be around 4% to 5% of the total weight. In your case, it will barely be noticeable, if at all. Besides that, in your price range it appears the variation in weight among different models is probably only 1 or 2 pounds. You won't notice that at all.

As for shifters, the main difference between the high and low end stuff is probably durability, although the high-end parts might also function a little more smoothly. For your uses, or even mine, something like the Shimano 105 will do just fine. No need to go with anything better here. Note that you'll still have a way better shifting experience than you would back when I started nearly 30 years ago. Back then, all they had was friction shifters where you basically hunted for the right gear. Indexed shifters came along later. Eventually, you had ratchet-type shifters where you can just click to go up or down. The integrated brake-shifters on the bikes you linked to are the final evolution of this. I wish this stuff existed when I first started riding.

Yes, it's amazing how much is involved properly fitting a bike. That being said, I never was, yet I've managed to do OK by adapting to whatever equipment I could afford, and adapting the equipment to me via small adjustments. However, this isn't something a beginner is likely to be comfortable doing.
 

cave dave

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Fit:
I am so glad you found a bike shop that was willing to fit you out. Yes it is very very common for even experienced cyclist to be riding ill fitting bike. I used to work in a shop and hang out in shops alot and saw all sorts of things, like selling the wrong size bike because thats what was in stock. The most common issue is bikes too small. 54 is the seat tube length in cm not inches. Not every manufactures measure the same way so one brands 52 may be the same as another brands 54. Trek and the otehrs you mentioned ares measuring center to top. Some brands measure center to center. More important is effective top tube length and Head tube length. As a beginner rider you will want a shorter top tube and a longer headtube so you have a more comfortable reach to the bars. (these two things conflict when it comes to sizing) If your elbows are locked while riding the handlebars need to be raised and the stem shortened. The Lemond also has a stem with a greater angle. If you flip it over you will get higher bars than the other bikes. I notice the Lemond is also available in a womens model in your size. If its not pink you might want to try it out. It has a shorter toptube and slightly more relaxed geometry. That will make it more comfortable and more stable to ride.

Weight:
Don't worry about weight, you all always giving up something to get a lower weight, always money and usually durability too. Fit and ride is much more important. Most of the weight difference between say the Trek and the Lemond is the wheels. With your bulk you might want the stronger 32 spoke wheels of the Trek.

Ride:
Have you ridden the bikes? A good shop will set them up for you first including adjusting stem. (have them put it as high as possible) Also a good shop will let you go for a long ride. I have had a shop tell me to not come back for at least a half hour and bring the bike back muddy. (cross bike) Try to find some steep hills and tight curves. If you dare, try riding each no handed. Some bikes shimmy or will veer off course no handed. A good bike will track straight and easy no handed. (some experience required) If one of the bikes has a more comfortable seat than the other tell the bike shop guy, he will probably swap it out. Almost all bike shops have a bin of take off seats you can try as well. Saddle can weigh as little as 150g to a couple lbs. longe ride comfort is the most important thing here. Squishy saddles can be comfortable for short rides but the gel can squish up into your blood vessels and cause numbing on long rides.

Gears:
Is Alabama hilly? I would recommend the bike with the tripple crank. 9 or 10 speed doesn't matter in practical usage. The 10 speed stuff is less durable and more expensive to replace. I would go with the 9.

Money:
Lemond is owned by the Trek company. Expect similar pricing. If one bike is on sale (last years model) and the other isn't, the sale bike is probably the better value. Save some money for Pedals, new stem (shorter and higher), water bottles and cages, and a new saddle. You will also need helmet, gloves, 2 pr riding shorts, pump, toolkit, shoes, etc.

Pedals
If it doesn't come with pedals DON'T buy road clipless pedals and shoes. If you go clipless (click in like ski bindings) get some mountain bike pedals and shoes with a recessed cleat you can walk in. You will thank me for this advice.
 

9volt

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1) Buy a bike computer. This is the only way you're going to be able to accurately gauge your progress. When you cover x miles over the same route faster than the week before you'll know you're getting in better cycling condition.

Can you recommend a couple good bike computers and where to get them? I'd like to get one for a mountain bike but don't know anything about them.

Ideally it would be under $50, wireless, and have a big display. I don't need a heart rate monitor.
 
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mechBgon

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Can you recommend a couple good bike computers and where to get them? I'd like to get one for a mountain bike but don't know anything about them.

Ideally it would be under $50, wireless, and have a big display. I don't need a heart rate monitor.

If you can live without Average Speed, check out this one: http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?...ype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop by Brand: Cateye Cateye's displays aren't the biggest ones you'll find, but the flip side is they have excellent durability and reliability, unlike Some Brands Of Wireless Computers I Could Name :ironic:


Robocop, I took a peek at the three bikes you linked and the Scott looks most attractive to me.

What is a good weight for a bike in the 800 to say 1100 dollar range?

About 20-21 pounds is typical. I agree with the other guys, don't focus too much on bike weight per se.

If you do want to save weight, wear out the original tires and then upgrade to light tires and tubes, because rotating weight at the edge of the wheel must be accelerated rotationally, not just linearly, making it the most important place to cut weight on a road bike.

An example of a decent light tire: Continental Grand Prix 4-Season which is a higher-mileage variant of the Grand Prix 4000 with additional puncture resistance. I'd recommend the 700 x 25 size (25 is the nominal width in millimeters) for your size & weight, because the slightly larger size reduces your chance of a pinch flat if you hit a pothole or whatnot. I use 25's myself and I'm only 160lbs. Continental and other companies also make extra-light inner tubes in the 70-gram range which are quite reliable, such as Conti's Race 700 Light or Specialized's Turbo Ultralight tubes.

In the big picture, however, don't expect radical changes in performance... this is simply the best place to start if you want to reduce bike weight. The process of riding enough to wear out the original-equipment tires will do far more for your speed than the tire upgrade at the end :grin2:

Oh, and top off your tire pressure before every ride. Normal seepage can lower your pressure enough to make you vulnerable to pinch flats.
 
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