Cedar Rapids Iowa flood: lighting advice?

[ValhallaPrime]

The popular one around here seems to be the Honda 2000i or something like that. I don't remember the price but it's under $1k. There is an even cheaper and smaller 1000 watt version but people say that's underpowered for some common purposes.

It's only a few bucks below a $1000 though.....I was at Lowes this weekend however, and the people in front of me in checkout had one AND a home service switch-over unit. WOW, I never thought I'd see a kit like that at a very suburban Lowes, but hey...Also I don't think the switchover kit was more than $150 when it rang up. I remember being surprised their total order was only a tad over $1000 (not too shabby for a lower-wattage lights-and-fridge-only whole-house solution). My buddies downstate all have propane-fired gennies tied to their houses, which auto-fire up during their frequent outtages. They all have big 750-1500 lb tanks in their backyards though, as that's what they also use to heat their houses.

If I was down there, I'd still have a 20lb'er with a tree and a Coleman 2 mantler or pinnacle on it. A lot more peaceful than a 7KWh propane monster idling next to your kitchen window. Add a 2-burner camping stove to the tree, and you've got a week of cooking and evening light easily. I still have love as well for my white gas dual-fueler.

 

[Kilted]

My other questions is anything brighter or more efficient than an Aladdin kerosene lamp? We have one and it outputs tons of white bright light.

Thanks all.

Well since this question was totally ignored I'll answer. I have 5 Aladdin lamps. Two hanging, one wall, two table running kerosine. Suggest you find Klean Heat by Klean Strip at your local hardware store. That is your best fuel, it is pricey. Next a good clean K1 kerosine, in a pinch you can burn liquid paraffin not trally recommended as the stuff has a low viscosity and will wick out of the font and drip on your table!

An Aladdin is a wicked kerosine, non-pressurised incandesent mantle parlor lamp www.aladdinlamps.com

I just went through serviced and bought spares for all my lamps. I keep several gallons of fuel handy.

For a no fuss other than starting up, QUIET lamp with lots of light for general use it is hard to beat.

All of your pressure lamps, liquid or propane hiss like a snake. The Aladdin will burn clean with CO as low as propane BUT requires more watch to ensure a clean blue flame. I always burn mine with a little cross ventalation. I would do the same with any liquid/propane fuel lantern. The one thing that propane has a real advantage is, propane will never soot up, or cause a bad smell.

For outdoor use I would recommend http://www.britelyt.com/, http://store.britelyt.com/servlet/-strse-500CP&150CP-Specials--fdsh--Best-Buy/Categories the 500cp is brighter than any Coleman. The 150CP is brighter than your average propane lamp. Fiddle factor is high these are not as easy to use as a propane. They are LIQUID fuel only, anything from Coleman Camp Gaz to diesel. These lanterns will run from the same liquid fuel as your Aladdin Lamps. I burn a 50/50, kerosine / citronella tiki torch oil for backyard light and bug clearance. I have two 150CP lanterns. Not as convient as a popane Coleman but much more versatile.

=D~~ Kilted

 

[Stereodude]

For outdoor use I would recommend http://www.britelyt.com/, http://store.britelyt.com/servlet/-strse-500CP&150CP-Specials--fdsh--Best-Buy/Categories the 500cp is brighter than any Coleman. The 150CP is brighter than your average propane lamp. Fiddle factor is high these are not as easy to use as a propane. They are LIQUID fuel only, anything from Coleman Camp Gas to diesel. These lanterns will run from the same liquid fuel as your Aladdin Lamps. I burn a 50/50, kerosene / citronella tiki torch oil for backyard light and bug clearance. I have two 150CP lanterns. Not as convenient as a propane Coleman but much more versatile.

Not to start a big argument, but this post says and shows that a Britelyt 500CP isn't much brighter than a Coleman dual fuel Northstar.

Coleman CS reported that a dual fuel Northstar does 360-375 CP (link). Based on Blacklight's numbers here and here the Coleman Pinnacle (propane) is at least 25% brighter than the Northstar Dual Fuel. That would put it right on the heels of the Britelyt 500CP (assuming the 500CP really puts out 500 CP), and well ahead of a Britelyt 150CP. :shrug:

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Your individual Light Culture and mindset are larger factors than anything else in decisions like this IMO. The longer this goes on the stiffer the requirements become and of course, the more light you use, the more light your eyes will need. Because of this there is really something to be gained by using as little light as possible as much as you can. In this way, when you need a brighter light for a task -- any brighter light you turn on will actually allow you to see better with the very same light than you would if you were spending all of your time in rooms more brightly lit. The hardest hit by power outages are those who have never had to learn to work in dim lights as a part of their jobs because they're always thrashing about trying to get more of what they're used to -- the bright, floody light from the sun.

Even with our dim light culture our biggest problem is similar to what everyone else faces in the same situation -- it all just gets old as time goes by.

A year or so back we went through a serious two week outage due to a distribution problem not inside our home. (A 'minor incident' compared to the six week outage post-Katrina) A few 'ordinary' LED flashlights with good runtime in 'ceiling bounce mode' (as paulr mentioned) strategically located throughout your house will help greatly and not cost a great deal to support. We had a couple of EL 1D-Blasters (Seoul P4) built post-K that get way over 100 hrs on one D alky. One will light the whole bathroom, for instance, though any run of the mill LED light with half way decent runtime should suffice.

Audiobooks are great for long outages. Unlike conventional books, they are posture independant, they don't require much light and they may be enjoyed by more than one person at a time.

If you have kids you'll have to try to make a game out of it. Good luck.

 

[StarHalo]

Because of this there is really something to be gained by using as little light as possible as much as you can.

+1, it's emergency lighting, not alternate room lighting. Trying to provide full, ambient light to entire rooms in an emergency would require a lot of resources, effort, and money that could be better applied given the circumstances..

Audiobooks are great for long outages.

That's a good idea, I always recommend a radio that receives TV audio, since television news has the best resources for news and info in an emergency, plus a lot of TV entertainment programming translates well to an audio-only format, though there won't be analog TV audio after next year..

 

[metlarules]

The coleman cree 8d lantern will give you loooooooooong runtime and plenty of light to light up a large room.

 

[Kilted]

Not to start a big argument, but this post says and shows that a Britelyt 500CP isn't much brighter than a Coleman dual fuel Northstar.

Coleman CS reported that a dual fuel Northstar does 360-375 CP (link). Based on Blacklight's numbers here and here the Coleman Pinnacle (propane) is at least 25% brighter than the Northstar Dual Fuel. That would put it right on the heels of the Britelyt 500CP (assuming the 500CP really puts out 500 CP), and well ahead of a Britelyt 150CP. :shrug:

OK, I have no way of testing so you are probably correct. I do have two other Coleman lanterns, Peak 1 liquid fuel, and a dual mantle propane, I have no idea which model it screws on top of a 1lb gas bottle.

The only thing I can tell is the Britelyt 150cp is as bright or brighter than either of the Coleman's. I was disappointed in the output of the Colemans, why should a single mantle lamp be as bright or brighter than a dual mantle propane.

Since I have no test equipment other than my old eyeballs you may be correct. The way I tested them was how well a lantern lite up my back yard.

I use both types propane for convience, liquid fuel for long burn time, with fewer green bottles in the trash.

=D~~ Kilted

 

[Kilted]

Keep in mind even the "expensive" propane lantern option is still not too bad in terms of runtime cost. You can get the 16.4oz tanks for about $2.50 and when used with the right Coleman lantern they put out the light of a 100+W incandescent for ~5hours on high. In contrast you can get 1 gallon (128oz) of Coleman fuel for ~$8. A dual fuel Coleman lantern that holds 32oz runs for about 7 hours on high. So, it is cheaper. You can do the math for unleaded gas.

Have you seen this:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&QueryText=propane+&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1

Refill 1lb propane tanks from a large tank.

=D~~ Kilted

 

[ValhallaPrime]

Have you seen this:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&QueryText=propane+&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1

Refill 1lb propane tanks from a large tank.

=D~~ Kilted

I'm floored! I never knew that existed! Jeez this changes everything in my "white gas is cheaper" frame of mind. I've got an uncle who manages a hardware store, and I can get 20lb refills for $15 with the family discount...this makes the 16.4 tanks cheaper than white gas.... Oh man this is gonna take some time to get used to.

 

[Stereodude]

Have you seen this:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&QueryText=propane+&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1

Refill 1lb propane tanks from a large tank.

=D~~ Kilted

My Dad told me about the same thing from Harbor Freight a few weeks ago though I hadn't bothered to look it up until just now. link

 

[Stereodude]

OK, I have no way of testing so you are probably correct. I do have two other Coleman lanterns, Peak 1 liquid fuel, and a dual mantle propane, I have no idea which model it screws on top of a 1lb gas bottle.

The only thing I can tell is the Britelyt 150cp is as bright or brighter than either of the Coleman's. I was disappointed in the output of the Colemans, why should a single mantle lamp be as bright or brighter than a dual mantle propane.

Since I have no test equipment other than my old eyeballs you may be correct. The way I tested them was how well a lantern lite up my back yard.

I use both types propane for convience, liquid fuel for long burn time, with fewer green bottles in the trash.

=D~~ Kilted

You could be correct also. The Coleman's I referred to are not the traditional #21 mantle "powered" models, but newer high output models that use much larger #95 mantles that are much brighter (basically the brightest dual fuel and brightest propane lanterns Coleman makes). Older models aren't nearly as bright, which probably accounts for your observations.

 

[broadgage]

I would advise great caution in the refilling of disposable propane bottles, I believe that the practice is prohibited in some countires.

When a dissposable propane bottle is filled at the factory, a carefuly measured qaunity of propane is put in, not sufficient to completly fill the bottle with liquid propane, the rest of the bottle contains gas not liquid.
This allows the liquid to expand as the temperature rises.

When refilling a bottle from a larger tank or cylinder, the exact amount of the fill is unknown and may be exxcessive, without room for expansion. This could cause the bottle to burst if exposed to higher temperatures.

The risks may be reduced by, only filling the bottle about half full.
By filling on a hot day, so that subsequent changes of temperature are likely downwards and not upwards.
And by filling bottles as needed, keep your reserve stock in the large tank, not as a hoard of re-filled disposable bottles.

 

[Stereodude]

The risks may be reduced by, only filling the bottle about half full.

But how would you know when it's half full? :thinking:

 

[Sub_Umbra]

But how would you know when it's half full? :thinking:

One would have to know the capacity in lbs and TARE WEIGHT (empty weight) of the bottle in question. Then the bottle is filled while sitting on a scale and when a weight equaling ½ of it's design capacity PLUS it's tare weight is reached it will be half full.

Since disposable bottles aren't marked with tare weight you'd have to totally empty the bottle in question and weigh it yourself. That tare weight would only be for that particular bottle. Each individual bottle has it's own tare weight.

Don't do it. It's a bad idea.

Most hardware stores carry a 5 foot accessory hose that will allow you to connect any stove, lantern or heater that runs on the small bottles to the much bigger 20-100 lb pigs that are refillable. That's what I use. My Walgreens will exchange my empty 20 lb pigs for full ones for ~$24 -- probably even less where you live. It's a good way to go.

I keep 5 20 lb pigs of propane hidden in my patio for emergencies. I built a plant bench that hides them and a few gallons of white gas and keeps all of it out of the house. It's quite secure against theft, out of the weather, handy and it's up to code. We could cook for weeks and weeks and weeks on what's out of sight inside that plant bench.

 

[Stereodude]

One would have to know the capacity in lbs and TARE WEIGHT (empty weight) of the bottle in question. Then the bottle is filled while sitting on a scale and when a weight equaling ½ of it's design capacity PLUS it's tare weight is reached it will be half full.

Since disposable bottles aren't marked with tare weight you'd have to totally empty the bottle in question and weigh it yourself. That tare weight would only be for that particular bottle. Each individual bottle has it's own tare weight.

I thought about that, but the hose or fitting would affect the reading on the scale and make it just as hard to determine when it's 1/2 full as when it's completely full, or overfilled.

Don't do it. It's a bad idea.

I wasn't planning on it.

I keep 5 20 lb pigs of propane hidden in my patio for emergencies. I built a plant bench that hides them and a few gallons of white gas and keeps all of it out of the house. It's quite secure against theft, out of the weather, handy and it's up to code. We could cook for weeks and weeks and weeks on what's out of sight inside that plant bench.

I have my 6 16.4oz propane tanks in the garage in a small cabinet. My white gas (Coleman Camp Fuel) is in the basement to keep it from going bad prematurely due to temperature cycling.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

I thought about that, but the hose or fitting would affect the reading on the scale and make it just as hard to determine when it's 1/2 full as when it's completely full, or overfilled...

Not really. That's the way professionals fill the real refillable pigs. (Done that -- hated it) In practice it's just a matter of 'zeroing' the scale with the fill line attached before you start. I didn't go into it in my post as I was just attempting to show how complex the whole process was even before one considers using a non-standard, non-approved bottle. Of course, it's also true that the smaller bottles will tend to also multiply any measuring errors that may be incurred in the process -- which is yet another good reason not to do it.

I thought about not giving any details at all (which many would feel the proper tack) but CPF folks are more 'hands on' than the mainstream user and I tend to feel that anyone seriously considering preparedness options will usually be better off with the 'nuts and bolts' of it than he would be with just a blanket condemnation with no supporting info. In short (yeah, like it's not too late for that ) I was trying to lay the ground work for why filling disposable propane tanks is a bad idea. I digress into explaining my motivations for that post because this is the type of issue that concerns me when posting to a public forum. I usually default to hoping that the user will be better served by making an informed decision.

I could be wrong. I'll delete my greyed out info if others think it was a bad idea. This is a grey area for me. (no pun intended)

I'm glad you're not going to do it.

/sub

 

[Burgess]

Just curious . . . .


Why are they called " Pigs " ? ? ?



_

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Just curious . . . .


Why are they called " Pigs " ? ? ?
_

I dunno. The tare weight on a pig that holds 20 lbs of propane may be as high as 18 lbs in some cases -- so the whole package could weigh as much as 38 lbs when full. I can't recall the average tare weight for a one that holds 100 lbs of propane but they make a very heavy package indeed. The 100 lb part of the monicker vastly understates how hard they are to handle.

I understand it but I don't really know how to say it. Over the decades I've handled many, many propane bottles of various sizes on land, on ships and other funny places but pig is the word that I've heard used over and over to discribe them and it probably really is the only word I've heard used a lot that may be used in a public forum. It makes more sense after you've wrestled them around for a while... Actually, perhaps you could think of pig as being the first word of a two word name...

 

[SilentK]

Right now at this very moment my power is out and i am running my pc on my *Huge* APC battery backup and there is a coleman propane northstar hanging from the ceiling fan in the middle of the living room. :twothumbs This is not the first time that hillbilly electric has failed on me. i have lost more than $200 on items i have lost connected to a battery backup when the power pulses. i have even lost a complete battery backup! so here is my current setup: Wall outlet>Surge protector>Batery backup>Surge protector>1650 watts of awesomeness! Anyway, dual fuel i would say is best, because if you run out of propane you are in trouble untill you can get to a store. dual fuel you can get a rubber hose put end A in lawn mower, weed wedder, car, ATV, anything that runs off of gas. put end B in mouth and slowly suck untill gas gets moving then *quickly* place end B lantern or stove. :twothumbs It IS NOT RECOMENDED and you SHOULD DO THAT AT YOUR OWN RISK, yet if it means you get light or a hot meal, then i myself have no problem with doing it. :shrug:

 

[Kilted]

You could be correct also. The Coleman's I referred to are not the traditional #21 mantle "powered" models, but newer high output models that use much larger #95 mantles that are much brighter (basically the brightest dual fuel and brightest propane lanterns Coleman makes). Older models aren't nearly as bright, which probably accounts for your observations.

OK, I have finally seen a Northstar with a #95 mantle in a store. That mantle is HUGH!! It is about four times the size of my dual mantle Propane Coleman and it is at least twice the size of my Britelyt 150cp. So I'll have to change my tune!!

Thank you for figuring it all out. It's nice to learn new things!!

=D~~ Kilted