In looking at pricing for some "upgrade" incandescent bulbs, I see a lot of HID kits available for not much more cost. However, I doubt many of these are truly hi low beam and still not quite sure how halogens do it. Filament placement seems to be about the same place for high and low circuits. Is it possible to convert a single headlamp to hi low HID with a single bulb?
Converting single lamp incandescent to HID? hi low?
- Thread starter fastline
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Automotive forum and it is illegal to put a HID kit into a halogen enclosure on a road going vehicle whether standard or projector style. No ifs, ands or buts, illegal ... and dangerous to others on the road.
See the above post, also search CPF for previous threads.
Advocating illegal or dangerous mods like this is a Rule 11 Violation.
Advocating illegal or dangerous mods like this is a Rule 11 Violation.
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Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
Hey fastline, there are always things you can do that are legal, and that actually work to help you see better. But, alas, there is no super cheap way to have truly good automotive lighting. You get what you pay for.
Tell us what sort of incandescent headlight, on what sort of vehicle, you want to improve. Someone is bound to have suggestions.
Tell us what sort of incandescent headlight, on what sort of vehicle, you want to improve. Someone is bound to have suggestions.
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks, HF, for softening what must have seemed like a hammerblow to an unsuspecting newbie.
He raised a question I'm also interested in - how DO you get hi/low in an HID bulb?
And does anyone know of a good resource for someone ignorant of laws and safety issues (like I was a few months ago) to get good advice on upgrading headlights? CPF is an awesome resource for the tiny fraction of people who are willing to register, post, maybe get bashed on the head, and wait for helpful replies, but what about the rest of the world? Shall we call them the 99.99% (US joke)?
He raised a question I'm also interested in - how DO you get hi/low in an HID bulb?
And does anyone know of a good resource for someone ignorant of laws and safety issues (like I was a few months ago) to get good advice on upgrading headlights? CPF is an awesome resource for the tiny fraction of people who are willing to register, post, maybe get bashed on the head, and wait for helpful replies, but what about the rest of the world? Shall we call them the 99.99% (US joke)?
You don't. In a reflector optic you either move the bulb or move the reflector. In a projector optic you move the low beam cutoff shield out of the light path to get high beam. In the case of the moving bulb in the reflector, the moving bulb holder is built into the headlamp. It is not a combination bulb/solenoid like you see in the so-called "dual beam HID kits". "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. Much greater detail can be found here.
You can post here with a specific question that looks like "I have a (year) (make) (model) and I need better (low beam, high beam, bad weather, off road, etc.) performance, what should I do?". Or you can write to Daniel Stern or one of a (very) few other experts.
Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
This is what happens in the projector HID headlights I bought from StarrHID and put in my Crown Vic. It was a small mental adjustment getting used to not seeing the usual switch between High and Low, just suddenly "the rest of the beam." Flicking the dimmer to High means the sharp Z-beam style cutoff vanishes and the area above it is filled in with light. (When I flick to High while driving through Tunnel One on the way to work, I can see there is still a cutoff, but it's "way up there.")
Funny visual trick: I mounted Cibie H2 aux. lights on that car. Clipping a test lead to one of the lights I'd just mounted, it lit up and appeared quite white to me. Then I turned on the headlights - they flash bluish at ignition then stabilize as a nice white light - 4200-4300K, none of the blue crap. Then I lit the Cibie halogen light again. Did that halogen light somehow become yellow? There's a very definite visual difference between the two types of light, yet I cannot call either one yellow (or blue). This it more obvious when looking at the car in the garage than while driving on the road.
yorkie_chris
Newly Enlightened
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Which country is he intending on driving in?
This question gives every appearance of being the groundwork for something like "Yeah, well what if he's in Micronesia? There's no law against HID kits there!". Rule 11 forbids discussing lighting mods that are illegal and/or dangerous. "HID kits" are dangerous, law or no law in any particular country. This line of questioning ends now.
Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
About the only use for the "which country" question that I can see is to decided specific headlight recommendations for left or right traffic. Otherwise, it doesn't matter where you are, the HID "kits" are dangerous/illegal and "real" legal HID lights are not cheap. If I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't go HID on my big Ford (my budget is tighter this year), because it has plenty of alternator power and decent halogen headlight/driving light options cost less. As it is, I'm still adding halogen auxiliary lights. I can see why some motorcycles are made with HID projectors or LED headlights, because they have small charging systems and limited space.
Ken_McE
Flashlight Enthusiast
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I believe you are getting onto the, call it the psychological side of color perception. There is no one single absolute color that we call white. White is a relative color, relative to whatever lighting we are in. These different bulbs have differing colors. They are all similar enough that we see them as white. It is because you see them right next to each other that you are seeing the differences.
Yes, and white has very large definitional boundaries as well. It is allowed to have a quite perceptible color cast in just about every direction (blue, yellow, orange, green, violet, pink/red, etc.) and still be considered legally white. However, "quite perceptible" is a relative thing as well; the actual amount of any color saturation/vividness in legally "white" light is objectively small. But because of the relative perception differences Ken McE mentions, the halogen headlamps that got noticed as "bright white" when they were introduced into a field of tungsten incandescent headlamps now get called "dingy yellow brown" in subjective comparison to HIDs and LEDs.
Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
I see what you mean. And I remember those days.
About that subjective perception thing: If I am driving on a deserted straight stretch and using those HID headlights, I can "supplement" the high beam by turning on a Halogen (H7680X HIR type) spotlight, and I do not perceive that extra light out front as "different." But looking at the front of the car with a halogen light right next to the HID headlight, I sense "different" very clearly. I know it's just a trick the mind plays.
On another forum, I got onto lights and the fact I chose 4200K bulbs over 5000K in my HID lamps. I got an immediate response that 5000K is not at all blue, it is "true daylight." Maybe it's personal preference. Of course, I'm sure "daylight" varies a bit from high noon on the equator to sunset over the ocean here in Washington.
In a different area of lighting, I recall discussions of whether "cool white" fluorescents lead to eye strain and stress, while "warm white" is easier all around.
If LED and HID can be made is more yellow shades, even selective yellow, I wonder why we don't see those choices, perhaps selective yellow HID and LED fogs.
About that subjective perception thing: If I am driving on a deserted straight stretch and using those HID headlights, I can "supplement" the high beam by turning on a Halogen (H7680X HIR type) spotlight, and I do not perceive that extra light out front as "different." But looking at the front of the car with a halogen light right next to the HID headlight, I sense "different" very clearly. I know it's just a trick the mind plays.
On another forum, I got onto lights and the fact I chose 4200K bulbs over 5000K in my HID lamps. I got an immediate response that 5000K is not at all blue, it is "true daylight." Maybe it's personal preference. Of course, I'm sure "daylight" varies a bit from high noon on the equator to sunset over the ocean here in Washington.
In a different area of lighting, I recall discussions of whether "cool white" fluorescents lead to eye strain and stress, while "warm white" is easier all around.
If LED and HID can be made is more yellow shades, even selective yellow, I wonder why we don't see those choices, perhaps selective yellow HID and LED fogs.
"Cool White" and "Warm White" fluorescent lamps both put out light of such lousy quality that it's silly to waste time on a debate over which one's worse.
There are no selective yellow LEDs (or phosphors to make them) as far as I'm aware. LEDs that look pretty much like well-fed incandescents and give equal or better color rendering exist (Xicato, Soraa, PRG...). They just haven't been applied in automotive lamps. I don't have a lot of hope that it will happen, because the marketers will not give up their "brilliant blue-white" song and dance without a big fight, and consumers have been conditioned to demand it. Big thread on why this is probably better for vehicle lights (but probably won't happen) is here.
There are no selective yellow LEDs (or phosphors to make them) as far as I'm aware. LEDs that look pretty much like well-fed incandescents and give equal or better color rendering exist (Xicato, Soraa, PRG...). They just haven't been applied in automotive lamps. I don't have a lot of hope that it will happen, because the marketers will not give up their "brilliant blue-white" song and dance without a big fight, and consumers have been conditioned to demand it. Big thread on why this is probably better for vehicle lights (but probably won't happen) is here.
They make high/low HID bulbs, the ones I've seen have moving parts. Don't know much about them.
If you want to stay legal, there are DOT legal bike auxiliary lights out there. Depending on the bike there are always some options. I have lights on my truck for off road use and driving lights for dark country road use that are DOT legal. Same goes for motorcycles.
Avoid those cheap HID bulb kits, check out the LED auxiliary light options.
If you want to stay legal, there are DOT legal bike auxiliary lights out there. Depending on the bike there are always some options. I have lights on my truck for off road use and driving lights for dark country road use that are DOT legal. Same goes for motorcycles.
Avoid those cheap HID bulb kits, check out the LED auxiliary light options.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
I recall hearing that some of the fleabay "kits" toggle high beam with an electromagnet that attracts the HID arc towards location where the high beam filament in a dual-filament bulb would be located. I gather that method is not particularly precise nor terribly reliable ... to say nothing of being entirely non-compliant.
Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
Well, darn, no selective yellow LEDs is a disappointment.
Say, this is not high output, but: I think I may have mentioned that I have the my very first flashlight ever with an LED; used it briefly tonight. It's a Streamlight Syclone. The main bulb is "krypton," but it has a deep yellow LED "auxiliary" bulb. In fact, this it may be a bit closer to deep amber than selective yellow. I recall thinking it's enough to find your way out of the tent for a late night call of nature, or to read a book. So I know that, in addition to indicator lights there is a such thing as a yellow LED flashlight, but I've never seen a yellow LED with more output than this.
Say, this is not high output, but: I think I may have mentioned that I have the my very first flashlight ever with an LED; used it briefly tonight. It's a Streamlight Syclone. The main bulb is "krypton," but it has a deep yellow LED "auxiliary" bulb. In fact, this it may be a bit closer to deep amber than selective yellow. I recall thinking it's enough to find your way out of the tent for a late night call of nature, or to read a book. So I know that, in addition to indicator lights there is a such thing as a yellow LED flashlight, but I've never seen a yellow LED with more output than this.
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Not legitimate ones, they don't. There are a few BiXenon headlamps that produce high and low beam from one HID bulb by moving the bulb, but most keep the bulb stationary and either move the reflector or have a movable projector shield. There are no legitimate HID bulbs that have moving parts.
I am not aware of such a setup in an aftermarket "HID kit", though it could be out there. This was an idea being kicked around and played with by Osram/Sylvania and possibly others in the mid-'90s. It was not commercially viable and was never launched.
I agree.
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