do law enforcement agencies / US military ever use neutral white flashlights?.

[TEEJ]

Just to add to the confusion, I'm not convinced the CRI standard is a perfect system for measuring color rendition. For example, a CRI=100 incandescent flashlight has a horrible time distinguishing blues. Blues look very dark, and are sometimes hard to tell apart from black. Reds look great, though! Reds almost look too great, and will make skin tones appear more red to the eye than they really are.

It really depends what you like. Personally, I like the look of incandescent light, even though it's not really that accurate.

Correct. CRI is not the only variable.

 

[MichaelW]

To become a cop now a days, you have to have an IQ less than body temperature. The police departments are allowed to discriminate based upon aptitude test results. [see the lawsuit filed from the craphole called New London, Connecticut. and not Kilo vs. NL, CT- that one totally distorts the concept of Eminent Domain]
They may not know any better. If you believe they are honest peace officers, then by all means help them pick a neutral/high CRI offering; if you believe they are the jackboot-thug-retard type, don't help them.
The difference in flux from a 5000K to 4000K is one bin, but in reality is about 5%. And maybe another 5% between 5000K cool, and 6500K extreme cool and 10% between 3000K to 4000K. So you have a 25% difference between an incandescent 2700K and blue-6500K+
Bottom line: Lux > CCT > Lumens > CRI in terms of real world performance.

There is no more US military, they are working for internationalists/globalists, and against the best interests of the USA. Why would they [the people who call the shots] appropriately equip them? If you know someone who honesty meant what they said of their oath of enlistment, get them a 4500K Nichia high CRI.

 

[dc38]

Correct. CRI is not the only variable.

How is CRI calculated? If one compares an high CRI Cree with an high CRI Nichia, the colors are completely different. Even with flashlights that very closely emulate the sun's color temperature don't have remotely close to 100 CRI. I for one still believe it has something to do with the barely visible spectrum of UV that helps colors to pop and be properly rendered.

As previously mentioned by others, the reason I think that LEOs continue to use cool white tints is because of what the manufacturers place in the market. The "higher efficiency of light transmission" and "higher luminosity" are definitely great selling points. The cool white bulbs cost less than warm whites or neutral whites sometimes.

 

[Labrador72]

Thanks TEEJ. Absolutely one of those great replies with so much to learn from that I saved it and will go back reading from time to time!

 

[Swedpat]

This is an interesting matter. Yes; I will not oppose against other opinions than my, it's pretty much a matter of personal apprecition. I have read that many flashoholics experience that cooler tints wash out the colors, I belong to them.
My personal favourite tint based on several dozens of different lights from cool, neutral, warm and high CRI is around 4000K. I find it just so comfortable for the eyes, so pleasant. Malkoff M31/61N, Fenix TK22 Neutral, Malkoff Hound Dog Neutral, Armytek Predator Pro 2.5 Neutral/Barracuda Neutral. All of them have this nice ~4000K tint. And I am waiting for an Armytek Viking Pro 2.5 in Neutral, hopefully next week! I just wish ALL flashlight models had been offered in different tints, so all of us could be satisfied!

 

[Mr. Tone]

Just for the record, police officers do sometimes care about color rendition. I don't want to create a report or spot broadcast and say that the suspect was wearing a gray shirt when it was tan, cream, etc. Also, needing to look for blood or various things while searching for evidence at night matters, too. It is not all about there is a guy in the corner with a gun, or is it a cell phone? Dang, I wish I had the one bin brighter(7% max) cool white light instead of the neutral white version and I would know for sure if that is a cell phone or a gun, knife, etc.

If anyone believes that a 7-10% in brightness makes a significant difference then I strongly disagree. All things being equal most people would barely be able to see that amount of difference even when A/B comparison. The thing that I notice the most is that no natural light looks like cool white LED light. I mean it doesn't matter how cool the CCT measurement is outside, such as on a very overcast day or something, it still doesn't make objects appear similar to the same CCT cool white LED. My experience is that a more neutral tinted LED has more relevance to real world appearances compared to natural lighting, regardless of time of day CCT.

To each his own on preference. Put another way, people with white skin do not have a pale and ghostly look to them when in high CCT daylight. Under moonlight, yes, but not daylight in my experience. Cool white LED illumination just makes things look unnatural to me and I think most neutral white fans agree about this point. I have said enough now, I will get off my soapbox.

 

[Mr. Tone]

To become a cop now a days, you have to have an IQ less than body temperature. The police departments are allowed to discriminate based upon aptitude test results. [see the lawsuit filed from the craphole called New London, Connecticut. and not Kilo vs. NL, CT- that one totally distorts the concept of Eminent Domain]
They may not know any better. If you believe they are honest peace officers, then by all means help them pick a neutral/high CRI offering; if you believe they are the jackboot-thug-retard type, don't help them.
The difference in flux from a 5000K to 4000K is one bin, but in reality is about 5%. And maybe another 5% between 5000K cool, and 6500K extreme cool and 10% between 3000K to 4000K. So you have a 25% difference between an incandescent 2700K and blue-6500K+
Bottom line: Lux > CCT > Lumens > CRI in terms of real world performance.

There is no more US military, they are working for internationalists/globalists, and against the best interests of the USA. Why would they [the people who call the shots] appropriately equip them? If you know someone who honesty meant what they said of their oath of enlistment, get them a 4500K Nichia high CRI.

On another note, at least in the State of Illinois it is harder now than ever before to get into law enforcement. At the very least you have to pass a physical agility test, written aptitude test, and then an oral interview process. There are many agencies that require a degree or military experience, too. After all of this, if someone still wants to hire you, the academy is required and must be successfully passed at every level. At the end of that there is a 200 question written test with a minimum passing score of 70%.

Maybe it is not that way everywhere else, but I work around some great officers who know how to do their job and have good motives as well. Many of the guys I work around have also served in the military and some even in combat. This is a job where you are constantly criticized by arm-chair quarterbacks. Many of those same people make a lot of false assumptions based on Hollywood dramatization of police work.

 

[markr6]

If anyone believes that a 7-10% in brightness makes a significant difference then I strongly disagree. All things being equal most people would barely be able to see that amount of difference even when A/B comparison. The thing that I notice the most is that no natural light looks like cool white LED light. I mean it doesn't matter how cool the CCT measurement is outside, such as on a very overcast day or something, it still doesn't make objects appear similar to the same CCT cool white LED. My experience is that a more neutral tinted LED has more relevance to real world appearances compared to natural lighting, regardless of time of day CCT.

To each his own on preference. Put another way, people with white skin do not have a pale and ghostly look to them when in high CCT daylight. Under moonlight, yes, but not daylight in my experience. Cool white LED illumination just makes things look unnatural to me and I think most neutral white fans agree about this point. I have said enough now, I will get off my soapbox.

I like this! I always laugh when I see the "daylight" bulb displays at Lowes or Home Depot. Still waiting on seeing this blue sun rise...

 

[Mr. Tone]

I like this! I always laugh when I see the "daylight" bulb displays at Lowes or Home Depot. Still waiting on seeing this blue sun rise...

Yeah, we got some of those when they first came out. It took less than an hour for my wife to request they be removed because they made things look "weird".

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Warmer tints are just that, warmer tints. Warmer tint does not = higher CRI, etc...its JUST a yellower light.

A warmer tint will inherently have a higher CRI than a cooler tint even if it's technically not a high CRI source.

 

[RI Chevy]

I carried a Magcharger for 24 years. I do not know why, other than the fact that when I started, it was the best, brightest light on the market. And it was what all of the other officers were carrying. I had great luck with it through the years. Only replaced the bulb a few times. I still have it.

But, if I knew then, what I know now, I would definitely carry a warm or neutral 4000/4500K light. For me now, it is better for my eyes, and I can see better with the warm/neutral tints.

 

[Mr. Tone]

I carried a Magcharger for 24 years. I do not know why, other than the fact that when I started, it was the best, brightest light on the market. And it was what all of the other officers were carrying. I had great luck with it through the years. Only replaced the bulb a few times. I still have it.

But, if I knew then, what I know now, I would definitely carry a warm or neutral 4000/4500K light. For me now, it is better for my eyes, and I can see better with the warm/neutral tints.

The MagCharger is still a good light even though it has been surpassed in brightness, runtime, and size/weight. Many squads still have either a MagCharger or Streamlight SL20X in them. 200ish lumens was a whole lot then and wasn't even surpassed by LED until the later 2000's with the Cree XR-E.

 

[twl]

CRI measurement is based against a reference lamp of "100 CRI" IN THE SAME CCT.
So, a "Hi CRI" lamp at 4000K CCT may have great color rendition versus other lamps that also put out 4000K CCT.
However, that's as far as it goes.
There is no scientific claim about it rendering colors any better than another lamp which is a different CCT.
In fact, it is very specific that the CRI rating has absolutely no value when comparing against the CRI of other CCT lamps.

So, if you want to believe that a lamp is "accurate" because it is a high CRI, then all you are getting is a lamp that is more color accurate than some other lamp at the SAME CCT which has worse color rendering. NOT necessarily any better than some other lamp at a different CCT.

My own method is to use the "human eye white balance test". Many other flashaholics also use this test commonly.
If you shine the light at a white wall, and the beam doesn't look plain white, then it's NOT an accurate light for color rendering, no matter what any CRI rating says. If it can't even get white right, then there's no point in even investigating any further, IMO. If it looks yellow against a white wall, then it IS yellow. Yellow is not white. Case closed.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

My experience is that a more neutral tinted LED has more relevance to real world appearances compared to natural lighting, regardless of time of day CCT.

There was a study conducted for art museums that determined that a 3700K light source appears neutral to the human eye, neither warm nor cool. Incidentally, that's the color temperature of Cree's current high CRI (90+) emitters which I believe are used in the HDS high CRI lights. I have a high CRI Rotary which has a gorgeous tint and great color rendering. It can even distinguish between different shades of dark blue and purple which pretty much busts the myth that high CRI sources aren't good at rendering blue.

 

[Etsu]

My own method is to use the "human eye white balance test". Many other flashaholics also use this test commonly.
If you shine the light at a white wall, and the beam doesn't look plain white, then it's NOT an accurate light for color rendering, no matter what any CRI rating says.

That's fine, as long as you do it in the complete dark, and have spent a few minutes in the dark so you don't "remember" whatever temperature of white you last saw. e.g., Don't shine your 4000K light at a wall in a room lit with daylight from outside, and then complain that you see yellow. (Yes, that's obvious to most.)

 

[Dan FO]

Bean counters don't know about or care about tint. Cost per 100 at the contract price is what rules. The average Soldier wants light and that is where it ends.

 

[Swedpat]

That's only because LED manufacturers generally design higher CRI into the warmer tints. Otherwise, there's no point in developing a warm tint (that has less lumens), if you don't have higher CRI.

By the way; then I wonder why the LED manufacturers avoid to design cool white emitters with higher CRI? If a better color rendition results in lower brightness the difference should be VERY marginal. The brightness difference between cool white and neutral white is today very small, and the difference between a cool white with bad color rendition and better rendition will be even less. Is all about the lumens race, to advert a few, hardly perceptible, lumens extra?

A warmer tint will inherently have a higher CRI than a cooler tint even if it's technically not a high CRI source.

Yes, according to as well the claimed CRI-numbers of different emitters and what I have noticed with my own eyes during several years comparing many flashlights of varying tints, I consider that as a fact. Then there are exceptions like, for example, red LEDs.

To all of you: MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[TMedina]

Bean counters don't know about or care about tint. Cost per 100 at the contract price is what rules. The average Soldier wants light and that is where it ends.

And something that won't break the first time you look at it. That's a plus.

 

[TEEJ]

And something that won't break the first time you look at it. That's a plus.

The warmness doesn't increase the CRI, it can reduce it. They make it warmer because there's a market for those that simply prefer a beam that looks like an old fashioned incan flashlight beam.

The fact that most LED high CRI lights HAVE a warm beam is more a function of the phosphors, etc, used to emit the wider spectrum, etc. being warm is therefore associated with warm beams, but, being warn doesn't raise the CRI in of itself.


This is akin to automotive bulb makers who sell blue/purple tinted halogen bulbs to people who think it looks like an HID. They want the look, and convinced themselves that they see better through fog, snow, rain, etc.



And yes, soldiers do not give a rat's exhaust about tint...only that it goes ON when needed, and OFF when not.





That said, I am one of those people who prefers a neutral tint, I just like the way things look better. But when doing disaster response, etc, I forget my personal preference because its more important to find people than to enjoy the tint.

 

[Etsu]

By the way; then I wonder why the LED manufacturers avoid to design cool white emitters with higher CRI?

I don't think they avoid it. It's probably just easier to match a incandescent light spectrum that is at a warmer "yellow" temperature than a cooler "blue" temperature. Also, IMO, a high CRI at a warmer temperature is going to show colors better than a high CRI at a cool temperature. You'll see more reds and oranges with a warmer tint, simply because a warm tint has more light at those longer wavelengths. So, if they're going to make high CRI lights, they may as well make them in a warm (or neutral) tint because they'll show colors better. Sure, they may not show the blue colors quite as well, but there's very little natural blue in the environment (other than sky).