Emisar D4

[staticx57]

FYI, the firmware is by Tom E and not Toykeeper. It is called NarsilM

 

[noboneshotdog]

Thanks! I've browsed a bit of Toykeeper's thread over on BLF, but there's a huge amount of info to sort through there. I appreciate you condensing it down for me.

I said when you mentioned the D4 over in the SC600w IV Plus thread this light isn't really what I'm looking for. However, the more I look at it, the more it looks good enough for my main criteria, the more the interface appeals to me, and the more irresistible the price appears.

I'm not at all one to chase monster outputs, but I would make occasional use of more power (and runtime) than what my current AA lights produce, and the UI on the D4 sounds like it's versatile enough.

So now I'm debating with myself whether I want the 5000K N219C stock light, since it turns out it is available in 90 CRI, or the 4000K D4Vn. I normally prefer warmer, but there's times when I also think a high CRI daylight tint would be ideal for the situation.

The 4000K high CRI is awesome! It's more neutral than warm. Superb!

 

[RollerBoySE]

FYI, the firmware is by Tom E and not Toykeeper. It is called NarsilM

True, but she did enhance it quite a bit upon Hank's (maker of the light) request.

 

[iamlucky13]

True, but she did enhance it quite a bit upon Hank's (maker of the light) request.

I just read the last ~2 weeks worth of Toykeeper's thread, and it sounds to me like Tom E wrote v1, and Toykeeper modified it to v2 with improved thermal control. She said she's working on v3 as TCY indicated, likely with a programmable max setting, but has set that project aside for the moment.

Oh, and the 5000k, 90 CRI apparently just happened to become available the same day I asked about it.

For the moment, I'm telling myself to hold off until more information about a timeline for UI v3 becomes available.

 

[MAD777]

With the ramping UI, the max setting is up to you! Just remove your thumb from the switch. Another reason I love this UI.

 

[iamlucky13]

With the ramping UI, the max setting is up to you! Just remove your thumb from the switch. Another reason I love this UI.

That gets partially at what I'm hoping for, but two more desired benefits would be addressed if Toykeeper's UI v3 is implemented:

1) You have a consistent max level below the peak achievable so you can have a better rough idea how hot the light will get, how long it will be before thermal protection kicks in, and how far the output will fall before it stabilizes.

2) You can get direct access to that level by double clicking.

If there was no hope of a programmable maximum being implemented, that's fine. It would not spoil my interest. Knowing that work has started on the feature, however, I'd like to wait and see if it comes to fruition.

 

[Agpp]

True, but she did enhance it quite a bit upon Hank's (maker of the light) request.

Not true, these are independent branches.
TomE wrote Narsil.
Starting from that, he wrote D4 UI, with many changes for Hank.
Then he wrote NarsilM on the basis of Narsil.

So these projects were started by the same developer and they have a common ancestor. But they are not the same, UI is different, thermal control is different, D4 is 2-channel only, there are likely smaller differences too.

 

[RollerBoySE]

Not true, these are independent branches.
TomE wrote Narsil.
Starting from that, he wrote D4 UI, with many changes for Hank.
Then he wrote NarsilM on the basis of Narsil.

So these projects were started by the same developer and they have a common ancestor. But they are not the same, UI is different, thermal control is different, D4 is 2-channel only, there are likely smaller differences too.

I'm not denying that TomE (who's a gifted developer) wrote Narsil and the V1 code for D4. But ToyKeeper did enhance the V1 code for D4 into V2, with for example better heat management.

 

[Agpp]

I'm not denying that TomE (who's a gifted developer) wrote Narsil and the V1 code for D4. But ToyKeeper did enhance the V1 code for D4 into V2, with for example better heat management.

Indeed.

 

[MAD777]

I need to read through Narsil thread on BLF because I am thrilled with the ramping concept.

 

[totobel]

Im interested by the xpl hi neutral version.
Could anyone explain me why there is so much heat and such a quick stepdown when the tn40 has the same 4xxpkhi and seems to be running a long time without stepdown.
Just because of the size ?

Btw the guys here seems to say the xpl hi is the coolest
Whats the lastest status on that ?
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306

 

[ven]

Size yes, the D4 is pretty tiny, especially for 4300lm! There is just not enough mass and surface area to soak up and dissipate that kind of output. Put things in perspective, the tk75 2900lm version is a lot larger, yet this had a timed step down at 15m(the 2600lm at 20m).

The way it handles heat, steps down is very impressive...........You can pretty much run it for long duration's around 600lm level(again impressive for its size).

 

[totobel]

I'm not at all one to chase monster outputs, but I would make occasional use of more power (and runtime) than what my current AA lights produce, and the UI on the D4 sounds like it's versatile enough.

My favourite EDC remains the tn4a hi, which has the best comprimise size/flood/throw in my eyes.
The D4 i'd use it for fun, wow effect and die
(Tn40 sure does that but its only 7 times larger hehehe)

I agree that the 4000k neutral is just the only one which doesnt fake the real colours of plants and animals.

 

[totobel]

The way it handles heat, steps down is very impressive...........You can pretty much run it for long duration's around 600lm level(again impressive for its size).

I'm not sure I agree... thrunite has several single 18650 which can do 1k lumens without stress. Under 1k lumens its not that impressive... now at 4k lumens its a diff story...

 

[MAD777]

In the case of heat, size matters.

 

[ven]

I'm not sure I agree... thrunite has several single 18650 which can do 1k lumens without stress. Under 1k lumens its not that impressive... now at 4k lumens its a diff story...

Your going off 1000lm (LED lumens if manufacturer claims are even close) and it does not sustain 1000lms for say 1hr. To put another way, if the thrunite 18650 can hold X amount, the D4 can also. The D4 is far more advanced, it will also get a lot hotter than the thrunite and still put out a very usable amount of light.

Not many(not any as far as i am aware) 18650 lights that can hold a solid 1000lm for a long duration............physics gets in the way.

 

[blah9]

That's exactly right. The manufacturers claim 1000 lumens for an hour or whatever but in reality the lights have to step down due to temperature issues.

 

[ven]

That's exactly right. The manufacturers claim 1000 lumens for an hour or whatever but in reality the lights have to step down due to temperature issues.

Yes and if direct drive they are getting dimmer(although not easy to tell by eye). The pd35 which is similar in size to the thrunite hits 1000lm ish, but still steps down to 600lm then further still iirc. The difference from 1000lm down to 600lm for example , to the eye is only small. Even 300lm will get a single 18650 light quite warm over time.

The D4 is quite an amazing little light, not just in output, not just with UI and form. Its the package, Hank certainly hit a home run with his new little lights

 

[iamlucky13]

Im interested by the xpl hi neutral version.
Could anyone explain me why there is so much heat and such a quick stepdown when the tn40 has the same 4xxpkhi and seems to be running a long time without stepdown.
Just because of the size ?

Btw the guys here seems to say the xpl hi is the coolest
Whats the lastest status on that ?
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306

Yep, size and mass. The TN40 weighs almost 2 pounds and has quite a bit of surface area. The D4 weighs 2.5 ounces. The mass means a slower temperature rise due to the time it takes to heat that extra metal, and the larger surface area means more ability to dissipate heat to the surrounding air.

The TN40 is also probably more efficient due to having the internal room for more and larger components in the driver to handle the high currents, and due to spreading the drain across 4 batteries. Better efficiency means less heat.

As far as I've seen, that thread you linked to is basically the authoritative reference - aside from what is listed on the International Outdoors page - for all things D4-related. Everything I've read concurs that the XP-L variant is the coolest running. As it is the most efficient of the emitter options when driven hard, that makes sense.

I'm not sure I agree... thrunite has several single 18650 which can do 1k lumens without stress. Under 1k lumens its not that impressive... now at 4k lumens its a diff story...

Maukka tested the TC12 here, and I think the TN12 performs similarly. The TN4A might be able to handle the heat longer by virture of its larger size:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...review-with-measurements-(18650-Cree-XP-L-V6)

If you scroll down to the run time graph, you'll see that at 8 minutes it has to step down from 1000+ lumen turbo to ~450 lumen high mode due to heat. However, if he keeps a fan on it, he can keep it in turbo indefinitely, with output gradually declining due to the ability of the included battery to maintain its voltage under load as it discharges.

That's very common behavior for EDC-sized 18650 lights. Zebralights also have thermal control, although they've got a more sophisticated way of managing it than Thrunite called PID control that the D4 at least partially emulates.

 

[totobel]

Indeed the tn12 behaviour is very similar.
I got confused by my tn4a which can do 1100lm turbo without stepdown for 40min ! Another advantage of that overlooked beast.