Flashlights are getting too bright, Lumens race getting out of hand...

[Jash]

There is no such thing as too much light. All other opinions are invalid.

 

[kengps]

You'd be just as correct to say "Why have 200 horsepower, when a car cruises at 65mph with only 15 Horsepower". The answer is "Because sometimes you need all of it. I don't need all of 2000 lumens. But sometimes it's useful at longer ranges.

 

[thedoc007]

With weapons, you might have a point. I don't know too many people who think bigger and better nukes are a good idea.

But flashlights...no freakin' way. Maybe when we can exceed sunlight intensity over a large area, we can have this discussion again, but for now they are not even close to dangerous brightness with proper use. I agree that people can misuse high-lumen lights, but that is hardly anything new, and certainly is no reason to halt progress.

You have to remember that progress isn't a pick-and-choose type deal. If you research one thing, it might lead to a breakthrough somewhere else. Also, one person's awesome new feature might be a headache for someone else. But that is the beauty of the market...as lights develop, we just get more and more choices, and we can each find the lights that tick all of OUR boxes. Even if I agreed that we should limit one criteria, in practice that can't be done without harming every other aspect. Thermal and electrical efficiency, brightness, intensity, compactness etc are all related, and holding back in one area will at the minimum slow progress in the other areas, and at worst lead to a general stagnation in the entire market.

It really does seem (to me) to be backwards thinking to try to limit progress. First and foremost, it doesn't work very well. If you don't like the way things are developing, just vote with your dollars, and just don't buy anything that doesn't suit you. But personally I think it is a wonderful thing that things are constantly evolving.

 

[Groundblast]

How bright would you have to get before you risk damaging eyesight permanently? I just traded off my 1w laser because I was afraid to use the thing! I wouldn't want a light that could harm me or others.

 

[CarpentryHero]

With weapons, you might have a point. I don't know too many people who think bigger and better nukes are a good idea.

But flashlights...no freakin' way. Maybe when we can exceed sunlight intensity over a large area, we can have this discussion again, but for now they are not even close to dangerous brightness with proper use. I agree that people can misuse high-lumen lights, but that is hardly anything new, and certainly is no reason to halt progress.

You have to remember that progress isn't a pick-and-choose type deal. If you research one thing, it might lead to a breakthrough somewhere else. Also, one person's awesome new feature might be a headache for someone else. But that is the beauty of the market...as lights develop, we just get more and more choices, and we can each find the lights that tick all of OUR boxes. Even if I agreed that we should limit one criteria, in practice that can't be done without harming every other aspect. Thermal and electrical efficiency, brightness, intensity, compactness etc are all related, and holding back in one area will at the minimum slow progress in the other areas, and at worst lead to a general stagnation in the entire market.

It really does seem (to me) to be backwards thinking to try to limit progress. First and foremost, it doesn't work very well. If you don't like the way things are developing, just vote with your dollars, and just don't buy anything that doesn't suit you. But personally I think it is a wonderful thing that things are constantly evolving.

Well said doc,
i keep watching led evolution and I like what I see. I'm looking forward to the day where 7k lumens for under $100 is possible

 

[Rexlion]

My 4000 lumen mag mod is not 'too bright'. It's very handy for checking the yard. No need to sweep the light back and forth, because it lights up the entire yard.

 

[idleprocess]

One thing the LED manufacturers seem to be reaching toward is a LED flashlight that, using a single LED package and collimator, can meet both the throw, intensity, and raw lumen output of a ~35W HID spotlight - ideally for 10 watts or less. There are multi-emitter lights that can hit the lumen output in fairly small packages, but I'm not aware of any that can match the throw nor the intensity of HID.

I think in only a few years you will have nearly pocket-sized light that can spit out more than 3000 lumens and - with the addition of a surprisingly small "turbohead" - reach out as far as a 35W HID Spotlight with a ~9" reflector. In normal use, they won't be called upon to emit that kind of light, but will certainly have the capabilities to do so for short periods - thermal issues and battery life likely being the major limits.

Not sure I would worry about people being blinded by flashlights - plenty of folks have started into card headlights, stage lights, theater spotlights, and even outdoor event-promotion spotlights - seemingly without a rash of permanent eye damage nor being struck blind. Lasers, on the other hand ... have done some of those things and are subject to increasing legal scrutiny as we've all been witnessing.

 

[Vortus]

Thing is, many of those lights can do small and big lumens. Useful for more things. The same light can do 10 lumen to 3K+ lumens. Sometimes you need a teaspoon, sometimes a bucket. These lights are all that.

 

[Z-Tab]

Just got back from using my ~4000 Lumen HID for a while, part of that while riding a four-wheeler that doesn't have working headlamps. It was just about the right amount of lumens for me, allowing me to see as far ahead as I needed while also providing enough spill that my peripheral vision was still useful.

I say that 4000 lumens is just about enough, but I wish I could get that kind of output in a smaller package with better run times. Of course, Search and Rescue people need more than us regular folks... based on the logarithmic nature of light perception, I'll suggest 400,000 lumens as a good place to stop.

 

[GordoJones88]

Nope.

 

[kengps]

a 100 Watt incandescent light-bulb is about 1800 lumens. Heard anybody say 100 watt bulbs are too bright?

 

[blackFFM]

There is no such thing as too much light. All other opinions are invalid.

+1


I won't be satisfied until my lights are as bright as the sun. THEN it's enough.

 

[HistoryChannel]

a 100 Watt incandescent light-bulb is about 1800 lumens. Heard anybody say 100 watt bulbs are too bright?

Yeah, my wife all the time actually... lol.. they are pretty bright for normal use. At least for us.

"Thats too much bacon".... now that... I have never heard..

 

[TEEJ]

Yeah, my wife all the time actually... lol.. they are pretty bright for normal use. At least for us.

"Thats too much bacon".... now that... I have never heard..

Damn MY wife says its too much bacon.

 

[Stilt]

I see your point, to an extent. Small single cell lights that can put out a crazy amount of lumens for only a minute or so before they overheat are trying to push out more than what they're capable of handling. But, IMO, a multi-cell light that can handle the 1000+ lumens without overheating isn't too bright. Just maybe too bright for what you need a light for.

 

[TEEJ]

I see your point, to an extent. Small single cell lights that can put out a crazy amount of lumens for only a minute or so before they overheat are trying to push out more than what they're capable of handling. But, IMO, a multi-cell light that can handle the 1000+ lumens without overheating isn't too bright. Just maybe too bright for what you need a light for.

Its not really like that. (The over heating part...) Most of the thermal step downs are so you can have the same concept as a car with nitrous injection.

IE: They COULD make the light dimmer from the get go...and, as such, would be able to run at that dimmer brightness as long as required. OR - They could make a light that COULD be a lot brighter if needed for bursts of 5-20 minutes or so, depending upon HOW much extra brightness the burst would supply.

So, for example you have say, the option of a light that maxes out at 400 lumens, but can run at 400 L for 120 minutes....or one that can run at 400 L for 120 minutes AND be able to ALSO be able to give you a 800 L boosted beam for ~ 5 minutes at a time....and then step down to 400 L again.

Obviously, you don't have to select TURBO unless you NEED it. You could leave it at 400 L the entire time if you wanted to, or, if you thought you heard a bear a bit further away than the light was reaching...you could hit turbo to see WTF made that noise out there.

If you SEE a bear, you might want to SPRINT to the nearest tree to escape it...DESPITE the fact that you can only SPRINT for maybe a 100 - 200 yards or so, before you'd need to slow down and catch your breath. You might appreciate a burst of extra speed when needed, despite not being able to maintain it for miles.

 

[tsask]

It will get to the point where lights become licensed, or at least restrictions will be imposed like the 5mW limit for lasers.QUOTE]

let's hope not, the unenlightened masses are largely unaware of this most rewardng and wholesome hobby or avocation

Imagine hearing the often cited phrases such as:

"No legitimate sporting use" for such a light?

"Why would anyone except the police of military need such an extreme light?"

Perhaps a limit on electrcal storage devices such as batteries, limiting capacity, restricting those "high capacity batteries"? perhaps banning 3000mAh capacity 18650 cells allowing say 900 mAh instead?!

then......amid the spreading panic of total darkness without low voltage direct current storage devices.. run to the megastore only to find empty shelves ......a barren empty space where the "Energizer bunny" once resided...:shakehead
oh no! no more AA cells in stock at the store?? not available online either?!.....
a limit on the amount of batteres bought per day?!yipe!

I'm happy with warm or neutral tnts and 850 lumens on a single cell. a couple years 2 18650s could get 1000 lumens now I see 3500-5000 lumens!
Personally Id like a little more power (over 1000 lumens) on a 18650 single cell.

 

[Lou Minescence]

Too many lumens or lux depends on your needs. I remember the old days of my Q beam. Too bright as a single mode light to look at things close. Today's multimode lights are great. I don't use my TK70 or S6330 indoors incase I hit the wrong button. It hurts my eyes. I have other lights for inside.
Bring on more lumens. I'll quit when I've had enough. 😛

 

[HistoryChannel]

Damn MY wife says its too much bacon.

Lol!!

 

[StorminMatt]

Its not really like that. (The over heating part...) Most of the thermal step downs are so you can have the same concept as a car with nitrous injection.

IE: They COULD make the light dimmer from the get go...and, as such, would be able to run at that dimmer brightness as long as required. OR - They could make a light that COULD be a lot brighter if needed for bursts of 5-20 minutes or so, depending upon HOW much extra brightness the burst would supply.

So, for example you have say, the option of a light that maxes out at 400 lumens, but can run at 400 L for 120 minutes....or one that can run at 400 L for 120 minutes AND be able to ALSO be able to give you a 800 L boosted beam for ~ 5 minutes at a time....and then step down to 400 L again.

Obviously, you don't have to select TURBO unless you NEED it. You could leave it at 400 L the entire time if you wanted to, or, if you thought you heard a bear a bit further away than the light was reaching...you could hit turbo to see WTF made that noise out there.

If you SEE a bear, you might want to SPRINT to the nearest tree to escape it...DESPITE the fact that you can only SPRINT for maybe a 100 - 200 yards or so, before you'd need to slow down and catch your breath. You might appreciate a burst of extra speed when needed, despite not being able to maintain it for miles.

I fully understand what you are saying with regards to high output, single cell lights. But this is a concept that seems to be lost on LOTS of people. I can't tell you how many times people have told me here (and elsewhere) that it's pointless to carry large 800 lumen lights when their 1x18650 pocket light puts out the same light in a smaller and lighter package. But it can't do so continuously. Granted, as was pointed out, you certainly don't always want or need a light that can put out 800 lumens for four hours straight. But if this is what you need, a 1x18650 pocket rocket isn't going to cut it.