Frozen Batteries

[BootsAndCats]

I was wondering about the safety and performance implications of keeping a flashlight in my car.

I just started keeping a 4 x 18650 light in my car, but temperatures here get as cold as -15F and as hot as 100F+ (Which can get even worse in the sun inside a parked car)

My questions are as follows:

1. Will this damage the battery? Can a battery "freeze"?
2. Will this create a safety hazard?
3. Is a protected battery safer for this environment?

I primarily use Samsung 30Q and Orbtronic NCR18650B Protected Batteries.

I really want this light light and *not* a Alkaline powered light.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ven]

The only way I could think, would be insulation, something to put it inside to protect from the elements . Be it several layer and inside some kind of case then stored in a location to suit the cold or hot extremes.

Other option is coat....obviously in -25oC (I work in centrigrade) your going to have a decent (huge)jacket, ideally your heat generated will keep the light protected in the cold temps ready for use . So maybe use as an EDC if makes sense rather than storing somewhere .

Iirc li ions are good down to -40 but at a lot lower discharge rate . So ideally it needs body heat away from the cold to give you the performance required.

Sure many can give better advice, but some basics to get going on.

 

[BootsAndCats]

The only way I could think, would be insulation, something to put it inside to protect from the elements . Be it several layer and inside some kind of case then stored in a location to suit the cold or hot extremes.

Other option is coat....obviously in -25oC (I work in centrigrade) your going to have a decent (huge)jacket, ideally your heat generated will keep the light protected in the cold temps ready for use . So maybe use as an EDC if makes sense rather than storing somewhere .

Iirc li ions are good down to -40 but at a lot lower discharge rate . So ideally it needs body heat away from the cold to give you the performance required.

Sure many can give better advice, but some basics to get going on.

LOL it's a Solarforce Gladiator with spikes on the bezel. Not exactly EDC...lmao

 

[dudemar]

Hi there,

Tbh your best bet is to get a AA powered light and run it on Energizer Ultimate Lithiums. AFAIK that is the only battery that can operate under those conditions. My Heliotek HTE-1A is the ultimate survival light.

 

[ncgrass]

I've had lithium batteries fail in lights at 20 below and less. Recently I've spent two weeks in Canada camping with temps dipping to around -25 not counting wind, with not one issue from my hds. It was constantly exposed to the chilly air as it was in a mesh pouch away from my body.

I think it depends partially on the light itself. My hds never failed or flickered whereas the two lights that did have issues didn't even recover. I'm thinking lights may insulate better or worse than others from outside temps. All were run with USA made CR123's.

Not sure how cold your expecting but be sure to have something between your hand and light - aluminium gets quite uncomfortable to hold.

 

[dudemar]

Per Energizer data sheet for Ultimate Lithiums:

Operating Temp: -40°C to 60°C (-40°F to 140°F)

 

[ncgrass]

Yeah, I had a look at spec sheets too. I could have had a dud batch, but brand new batteries failing in an armytek and a nitecore surprised me. Especially since my elzetta didn't have problems. I believe it was around 30 below in that occasion and my camera battery wasn't up to scratch either haha

 

[BootsAndCats]

I found the datasheet for NCR18650B and it says store between -20C and 50C. So -4F is the minimum storage temp.

So so what would happen below that temp? I'm not trying to use it at that temp, I just am worried about damaging the cell for future use.

 

[ncgrass]

From my experience with primaries, irreparable damage. Neither of my batteries recovered - though putting a fresh, room temp battery in proved the light worked fine.

 

[dudemar]

All were run with USA made CR123's.

Are you sure you were using Ultimate Lithium AA L91s?

 

[vicv]

No one has mentioned this yet but storing in your car in 100°+ weather is the bad part. Lithium ions will be damaged stored fully charged in those conditions. I'd say stuff that gladiator full of cr123. Maybe take an extension off so you can keep the voltage in check

 

[ven]

LOL it's a Solarforce Gladiator with spikes on the bezel. Not exactly EDC...lmao

:laughing:

Well it was not the first 4 cell light i thought of, thought pop can type or along the lines.

Either way insulation if in your car would be the only way that i can think of. Stored in the most protected part of the car in the colder months(maybe wrapped up under a seat).

 

[markr6]

I found the datasheet for NCR18650B and it says store between -20C and 50C. So -4F is the minimum storage temp.

So so what would happen below that temp? I'm not trying to use it at that temp, I just am worried about damaging the cell for future use.

I went backpacking last February and I started out around 10PM. I was somewhere around 5-8°F and my Zebralight H600 headlamp would only stay on high for 1 second then fall down to medium. That was with a fully charged NCR18650GA. It was just too darn cold. And that was even with it in my warm car for the 4 hour drive before hand. If it started out cold, I'm sure it would have been worse. That's why I sleep with batteries overnight when backpacking. But for storage, I think it would be OK.

No one has mentioned this yet but storing in your car in 100°+ weather is the bad part. Lithium ions will be damaged stored fully charged in those conditions. I'd say stuff that gladiator full of cr123. Maybe take an extension off so you can keep the voltage in check

+1. I hate the nonchargeable aspect of primary batteries, but you just have to deal with it. CR123s can't be beat for this scenario. I left an 18650, nearly fully charged, in my car for over a year. While the voltage didn't decrease much, it was certainly hard on the battery. The internal resistance was double that of its identical partner cell which was purchased at the same time and kept indoors.

 

[nbp]

I have had Surefire G2Ls in my cars with Surefire and/or Battery Station CR123s for years with no issues as well as E01s with Energizer lithiums also with no problems. Temperatures have ranged from around -15F to 95F outside each year here. I have not left li-ions in those temperatures for more than perhaps a day or two I don't think.