Frustrated with the auto headlight bulbs - when will the industry finally upgrade?

ssanasisredna

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$4,711 .... wow ... just wow.

With > 100K unit sales/year, likely 3 year production, say 33% premium model with a $10 million design / test / tooling cost , that is $100/unit. MFG cost? .... shouldn't be more than $100/unit ... probably is, but even if it is $200 unit, we are only up to $300.

Right now there are 0 aftermarket, so if you break it, they can charge pretty much anything they want. It's almost like a mini monopoly.
 

Alaric Darconville

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Right now there are 0 aftermarket, so if you break it, they can charge pretty much anything they want. It's almost like a mini monopoly.

Aftermarket crap is out there. A popular enough vehicle will get aftermarket headlamps soon enough. I can name four "brands" off the top of my head that make '01 Corolla headlamps (TYC, DEPO, Anzo, and Spec-D). (Now, there IS "0 aftermarket worth buying" for that make and model.)

Spyder makes a headlamp-shaped toy for the '12 Lexus RX of some kind. Perhaps it's not yet profitable to make these lamps yet. The more-popular vehicles make the best target.

But claims that this is a "mini monopoly"? I'm not sure that follows. If demand is high enough someone is going to start building these, or they may even seek to purchase a license from Toyota to make RX450h headlamps. In the meantime, there are those same concerns (how many 'spares' do you build? Where do you store them? What about it being taxable inventory?).
 

idleprocess

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Aftermarket crap is out there. A popular enough vehicle will get aftermarket headlamps soon enough. I can name four "brands" off the top of my head that make '01 Corolla headlamps (TYC, DEPO, Anzo, and Spec-D). (Now, there IS "0 aftermarket worth buying" for that make and model.)

Spyder makes a headlamp-shaped toy for the '12 Lexus RX of some kind. Perhaps it's not yet profitable to make these lamps yet. The more-popular vehicles make the best target.

But claims that this is a "mini monopoly"? I'm not sure that follows. If demand is high enough someone is going to start building these, or they may even seek to purchase a license from Toyota to make RX450h headlamps. In the meantime, there are those same concerns (how many 'spares' do you build? Where do you store them? What about it being taxable inventory?).

TYC, DEPO et al seem to have figured out how to supply new headlamps appropriate for the replacement market - sure seems like the OEM suppliers could pull off such a trick if motivated, at a reasonable retail price.

If third-party manufacturers sought a license to produce OEM replacement lamps, dollars to donuts they'd be nearly as expensive as the same OEM products that greatly limit demand outside of the dealer/insurance ecosystem.
 

Alaric Darconville

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TYC, DEPO et al seem to have figured out how to supply new headlamps appropriate for the replacement market
Appropriate for the headlamp-shaped toys market.

sure seems like the OEM suppliers could pull off such a trick if motivated, at a reasonable retail price.

Remember, just because Value$aver Pork-flavored Bean Food Product is so cheap, doesn't mean that Greasy Prospector Pork and Beans can also be as cheap. Not without switching to a lower quality of hickory-smoked pig fat.

Making replacement headlamps in sufficient quantity to satisfy a reasonable need for replacement parts is expensive for the OEM. They're making (or having their tier-one's make for them) these headlamps and a host of other replacement parts all the while tooling up to produce the next model year and the next new model itself. The aftermarket headlamp manufacturers don't have the same constraints (and they're not building to the same quality standards, whether it is durability or photometrics).
 
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idleprocess

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Appropriate for the headlamp-shaped toys market.
I went through one edit pass too few. Or one too many. I meant to say "...in volumes appropriate for..."

Remember, just because Value$aver Pork-flavored Bean Food Product is so cheap, doesn't mean that Greasy Prospector Pork and Beans can also be as cheap. Not without switching to a lower quality of hickory-smoked pig fat.

Making replacement headlamps in sufficient quantity to satisfy a reasonable need for replacement parts is expensive for the OEM. They're making (or having their tier-one's make for them) these headlamps and a host of other replacement parts all the while tooling up to produce the next model year and the next new model itself. The aftermarket headlamp manufacturers don't have the same constraints (and they're not building to the same quality standards, whether it is durability or photometrics).

I appreciate that OEM suppliers such as Visteon have different cost structures than no-names like TYC and that it genuinely costs more to make superior OEM-grade products. I have exceptional trouble believing that it costs the capital-intensive/low-margin automotive business 2-4x to produce OEM headlamp assemblies that the retail price differential vs off-brand would imply. Naturally, high-volume production for cars being assembled on the lines to the tune of tens to hundreds of thousands of units a year will naturally be cheaper than low-volume production of thousands for retail replacement consumption. Only it seems that the OEM suppliers cut off production once the supply chain makes their lifetime buys and cede the replacement market to our favorite low-end producers.

Every car dealer I've been to has a parts counter, and it seems to operate at a decidedly pastoral pace. Walk-up business looks to peak at single-digit frequency per hour, and judging by the near ghost town employee population in the storerooms, there's not much more business from the internet, phone, nor mail. Given their pricing relative to just about anywhere else, this not not particularly surprising - unless part is truly exclusive to OEM or the aftermarket has failed to produce something adequate you go elsewhere. Thus my sense that OEM headlight assemblies price themselves out of the replacement market - leaving them to the no-name brands you find at auto parts retailers - because of their distribution channels.

For tier 1 suppliers - whom seem to produce a strong majority of the OEM headlamp assemblies on the market - perhaps they prefer the certainty of supplying automakers vs the replacement market. It is surely easier to churn out product in regimented batches ordered in well in advance by a single huge customer than to produce smaller batches as needed. Perhaps it's in their contracts with the automakers not to keep the lines open and sell to outside channels. But it sure seems like the industry as a whole is leaving a lot of money on the table when they halt production and maintaining astronomical prices that drive the replacement market to inferior lower-price options.
 

Magio

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Remember, just because Value$aver Pork-flavored Bean Food Product is so cheap, doesn't mean that Greasy Prospector Pork and Beans can also be as cheap. Not without switching to a lower quality of hickory-smoked pig fat.
I kinda look at headlights like grassfed beef. Sure, free range grassfed beef cooked at home is much healthier than a McDonalds, but the grassfed beef is hugely expensive. Not everybody can afford to eat it all the time, and those who can often choose not to simply to save money, even though they know good and well its not as good for them.

I'm not saying I want quality food, or quality headlights to be dirt cheap. Good products ought to be amply compensated, but at the same time you can't price it to the point where most people can't or don't want to afford it. I think that's starting to happen with a lot of the new LED headlights, and I think in the long run its gonna exacerbate the problem with people running poor quality stuff on the road. Most people I know of cringe at the thought of paying $500-$600 for a set of OEM halogens. You can only image how much of a heart attack they gonna have if you tell them they got to spend 2 to 6 grand on a set of headlights.
 

eggsalad

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I kinda look at headlights like grassfed beef.

To take the analogy further... In 1953, there was no such thing as "grassfed beef", because that's just what cows ate, and there was no need for silly marketing. In 1953, there was (in the US) the 7" sealed beam headlight, and it was good. You could get 6 volts or 12, and that was about your choice. When one blew or got crash damage, you went to the store and got a new bulb, a new reflector, and a new lens for about $5.

Now you kids stay off my lawn!!
 

64.5vette

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To take the analogy further... In 1953, there was no such thing as "grassfed beef", because that's just what cows ate, and there was no need for silly marketing. In 1953, there was (in the US) the 7" sealed beam headlight, and it was good. You could get 6 volts or 12, and that was about your choice. When one blew or got crash damage, you went to the store and got a new bulb, a new reflector, and a new lens for about $5.

Now you kids stay off my lawn!!

Cheap, standardized, and (usually) easily replaceable yes. Good performance, no.
 

-Virgil-

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In 1953, there was (in the US) the 7" sealed beam headlight, and it was good. You could get 6 volts or 12, and that was about your choice. When one blew or got crash damage, you went to the store and got a new bulb, a new reflector, and a new lens for about $5.
Cheap, standardized, and (usually) easily replaceable yes. Good performance, no. Cheap, standardized, and (usually) easily replaceable yes. Good performance, no.

By the standards of what's possible today, no, but of all the vehicle headlamps available in the world in 1953, the US sealed beam was by far the best performer.
 
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