The militaries of the world do all sorts of things that aren't necessarily in accordance with technically appropriate procedure. I can think of several specific examples related to vehicle lighting, but we are not going to have an is-not/is-too debate over whether photographs are useful in assessing beam patterns. We also are not going to violate rule 8.
Fyrlyt, all hype no substance?
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The militaries of the world do all sorts of things that aren't necessarily in accordance with technically appropriate procedure. I can think of several specific examples related to vehicle lighting, but we are not going to have an is-not/is-too debate over whether photographs are useful in assessing beam patterns. We also are not going to violate rule 8.
I find your comment interesting re " has no business in automotive application" as all design is subject to desired outcome constrained by cost and practicality. OEM Auto design is constrained by the practicality of the average demographic of the people changing lamps. Whereas aftermarket only has to meet the practicality of the chosen market segment where in this case all 4x4 and truck drivers are very practical hands on people and would not baulk at the fitting of a bi-pin lamp as being too difficult.
One cannot say the lamp is not suitable because of the tungsten filament, because OEM have been using halogen for decades. After all a tungsten filament is a tungsten filament. It just has to be made robust enough for the desired application. As for the G6.35 base not having a place in automotive. Surely if it holds the lamp sufficiently in place during all forms of driving in its application it is acceptable. Not just because, it does not meet OEM design requirements. (Who have a whole different set of constraints in their design)
Cheers MacG
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Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
Headlamp bulbs have a very specific base design to both ensure proper filament position and to prevent the wrong bulb from being used. An HB3 bulb will exhibit much higher filament placement precision within the lamp than the wedge or bipin bases. Also, the base of a headlamp bulb helps prevent touching of the envelope (I wear gloves when changing bulbs *anyway*, but still). Other bulbs are similarly designed to ensure the correct bulb application.
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I can't really object on principle to the use of a bi-pin bulb in an application like this. On one hand, it's not a prefocus base (that's the "P" at the start of all the official headlight bulbs' base designation...P14.5s for H1, PK22S for H3, P43t for H4, PX20D for HB3, etc.). Without a prefocus base, it would not be suitable for creating a low beam pattern. But on the other hand, the Fyrlyt lamps appear to have a focus adjustment that shifts the bulb to tighten or broaden the high intensity region of the beam, so a prefocus base is not a crucial need. One factor that might lean toward using something like a G6.35 bipin base is very low bulb weight, which would tend to make the bulb relatively resistant to troublesome movement and vibration in service.
Much though the phrase is abused and misused a lot, there really is such a thing as a lamp designed and intended for "off-road use only" (which has to include unregulated roads, such as the ones that run through empty deserts). In designing such a lamp, there is no airtight reason to confine bulb selection to those approved for legally regulated lamps. There is the potential pitfall that if Osram ever discontinues this purpose-specified bulb then owners of these lamps will be forced to substitute bulbs that will probably fit and work but with possibly less satisfactory characteristics (lifespan?) but other than that, for this application with those bulb specs I'm not seeing a problem.
Avoid the trap I tripped over: Fyrlyts are not the same as Lightforce.
Much though the phrase is abused and misused a lot, there really is such a thing as a lamp designed and intended for "off-road use only" (which has to include unregulated roads, such as the ones that run through empty deserts). In designing such a lamp, there is no airtight reason to confine bulb selection to those approved for legally regulated lamps. There is the potential pitfall that if Osram ever discontinues this purpose-specified bulb then owners of these lamps will be forced to substitute bulbs that will probably fit and work but with possibly less satisfactory characteristics (lifespan?) but other than that, for this application with those bulb specs I'm not seeing a problem.
Avoid the trap I tripped over: Fyrlyts are not the same as Lightforce.
I agree with some of your points to a degree however,If you get a chance to disassemble a FYRLYT you will find there are different types of G6.35 bases available. Whereas in this case, unlike some other DL manufacturers who use bases where the pin holes go right through the porcelain which allows the lamp to be pushed in to varying depths or until the glass envelope hits the base mica insulator which will give you varying FPs. The base used by FYRLYT has a set floor height in the bottom of the hole which stops the lamp at the same position each time it is changed which gives quite accurate fitting. As you would be aware the FCL is from the base of the pins to the filament so the FP is set by where the pins stop.
Sometimes being able to fit a similar lamp even of a different wattage when the correct one is not immediately available may be of some benefit to get you out of trouble.
As bi-pin halogen lamps are now use extensively in the home domestic market the public are now quite used to handling these bi-pin lamps.
Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
emphasis mine
If you work for, or sell, FYRLYT in any capacity, now would be the time to disclose it.
Gentleman, please keep this civil, I do agree that if anyone has a vested interest in this it would be appreciated if they came forward.
I started this thread because I was curious about the lights and am sick of reading the breathless fanboi response some lighting brands have on other forums. I wish to think Mr Cowan for taking the trouble to test the lights and post photos of the beam patterns, while I appreciate and agree they don't replace a proper test I find photos do give an indication of how the light performs. For those of us who aren't lighting engineers a photo can be more valuable in getting an idea if the light will meet out needs, of course we assume we are comparing like with like and there is no funny business going on. The photos are particularly relevant to me as I know that road rather well so it gives me an even better idea of how the lights perform for MY application. While looking at the photos I feel the Hella light has a slightly better pattern for my preference, the Fyrlyt is more then acceptable. It's price and parts availability is also acceptable. However I do have one concern, and that is the bulb. Just what is it's life expectancy like and more importantly what is it's replacement cost and availability like? H1 bulbs have been around for many years and are extremely common, and cheap. A specialist bulb even one with a good life span is pointless if availability, and cost, is a concern. Based on this fact alone I would probably pass on the Fyrlyt for the time being.
As an aside, I'm not convinced about LED for anything other then extremely broad/short range beams. I'll leave them to flood lighting and rock crawlers for the time being.
As an aside Mr Cowan, would you mind if I post your test on another forum? I think it might be enlightening for some people, yes I did go there.
I started this thread because I was curious about the lights and am sick of reading the breathless fanboi response some lighting brands have on other forums. I wish to think Mr Cowan for taking the trouble to test the lights and post photos of the beam patterns, while I appreciate and agree they don't replace a proper test I find photos do give an indication of how the light performs. For those of us who aren't lighting engineers a photo can be more valuable in getting an idea if the light will meet out needs, of course we assume we are comparing like with like and there is no funny business going on. The photos are particularly relevant to me as I know that road rather well so it gives me an even better idea of how the lights perform for MY application. While looking at the photos I feel the Hella light has a slightly better pattern for my preference, the Fyrlyt is more then acceptable. It's price and parts availability is also acceptable. However I do have one concern, and that is the bulb. Just what is it's life expectancy like and more importantly what is it's replacement cost and availability like? H1 bulbs have been around for many years and are extremely common, and cheap. A specialist bulb even one with a good life span is pointless if availability, and cost, is a concern. Based on this fact alone I would probably pass on the Fyrlyt for the time being.
As an aside, I'm not convinced about LED for anything other then extremely broad/short range beams. I'll leave them to flood lighting and rock crawlers for the time being.
As an aside Mr Cowan, would you mind if I post your test on another forum? I think it might be enlightening for some people, yes I did go there.
wcowan
Newly Enlightened
G'day irsa76
I can assure you I tried hard to make the voltage on the lights, aiming, vehicle position and camera exposure as constant as possible between my tests. This is more of a challenge than I first assumed.
Regarding bulb life, have you looked up the specs for a 100W H1? They have a nominal life of only 50 Hours. Osram specifies the Fyrlyt globe at 300Hours. This is likely not at the 14V test voltage of the H1, but it should at least have comparable life to the H1, maybe higher. Any which way, keep a spare with you, there are at least two dealers in Canberra / Qbn that will sell them to you for $15ea.
I initially had similar reservations as you and passed on the Fyrlyts. I now know that had I bought the Fyrlyts instead of the Hellas I would still have been very impressed with my new lights with no desire to change or upgrade them. I drove up the Hume last night from the Victorian border in a truck fitted with an LED light bar (utterly useless). I was seriously hanging for a pair of Fyrlyts on the front of that vehicle for the four hour trip, the highway was nearly empty and I was on high beam for about 75% of the time. In that application they would have been superior to my Hellas.
I have no problem with you posting my test to another forum as long as you PM me to let me know where it is. That way I can keep an eye on it and make sure what I've written is interpreted as intended and so I can answer any questions that come along.
BTW PM sent.
Cheers
William Cowan
I can assure you I tried hard to make the voltage on the lights, aiming, vehicle position and camera exposure as constant as possible between my tests. This is more of a challenge than I first assumed.
Regarding bulb life, have you looked up the specs for a 100W H1? They have a nominal life of only 50 Hours. Osram specifies the Fyrlyt globe at 300Hours. This is likely not at the 14V test voltage of the H1, but it should at least have comparable life to the H1, maybe higher. Any which way, keep a spare with you, there are at least two dealers in Canberra / Qbn that will sell them to you for $15ea.
I initially had similar reservations as you and passed on the Fyrlyts. I now know that had I bought the Fyrlyts instead of the Hellas I would still have been very impressed with my new lights with no desire to change or upgrade them. I drove up the Hume last night from the Victorian border in a truck fitted with an LED light bar (utterly useless). I was seriously hanging for a pair of Fyrlyts on the front of that vehicle for the four hour trip, the highway was nearly empty and I was on high beam for about 75% of the time. In that application they would have been superior to my Hellas.
I have no problem with you posting my test to another forum as long as you PM me to let me know where it is. That way I can keep an eye on it and make sure what I've written is interpreted as intended and so I can answer any questions that come along.
BTW PM sent.
Cheers
William Cowan
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gf0012-aust
Newly Enlightened
I'm certainly interested.
If you gents want to catch up we can compare lights at that loc
I'm about to replace my curr LED light bar 180w dual row, with a 200w single row 20x10w CREE.
happy to show you both how it stacks up with current Nane 75w HID conversion (using DENSO ballasts)
I'm tossing up between Fyrlyts and Great White LED round spotties, so seeing them in action would be useful
edit:
wcowan, am also interested in posting your shots and results to another forum, so if you're ok with it I'll go ahead and then send you the details
wcowan
Newly Enlightened
G'day gf0012-aust
I find LEDs are useless above 50KM/H, actually detrimental to your vision. The big LED Hellas may be an exception.
Happy for you to repost under the same conditions as above.
Cheers
William Cowan
I find LEDs are useless above 50KM/H, actually detrimental to your vision. The big LED Hellas may be an exception.
Happy for you to repost under the same conditions as above.
Cheers
William Cowan
gf0012-aust
Newly Enlightened
No probs, I'm surprised at the perf of the LED lights as mine outperformed (reach and beam shape) my prev Hella DynaViews by some margin
I'm normally sitting at 110 on the Hay and they have no probs with lighting up the front (curious as to whether the LED you saw had CREE's or P7's as they are a golden mile ahead of the usual chinese dross)
Similarly I travel out to Bungendore for work and they certainly give me reach and breadth in both straight and winding bits of road. There are a few long straights out to Bungendore where 100 is possible and I do take advantage of it.
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wcowan
Newly Enlightened
I've not seen an LED driving light that didn't have way too much foreground illumination, I've seen plenty but so far not the Hellas which use a large reflector.
BTW PM Sent.
BTW PM Sent.
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NFT5
Newly Enlightened
Gents, I'm following this with fascination.
If you're going to have the Great Canberra Driving Light Comparo then I'd love to be part of it. The Fyrlyts are high on my list for next driving lights
I know that section of road well, too but, just thinking, is there somewhere else where there might be a little less traffic?
If you're going to have the Great Canberra Driving Light Comparo then I'd love to be part of it. The Fyrlyts are high on my list for next driving lights
I know that section of road well, too but, just thinking, is there somewhere else where there might be a little less traffic?
wcowan
Newly Enlightened
PM sent. I'm open for ideas for a new site.
wcowan
Newly Enlightened
Another night photographing lights, this time joined by NFT5 and gf0012-aust. Thanks for the company and the loan of your lights, guys. Here are some photos of the Fyrlyts in spread and spot mode.
Spot Mode:
And Spread Mode:
Spot Mode:
And Spread Mode:
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NFT5
Newly Enlightened
Yes, thanks gents. It was an interesting comparison of four different sets of lights which used different technology and had completely different approaches and results.
When we finished I went down the end of the road and measured the distance from where we were set up to the tree at the end. 420m.
I took a number of photos and after loading on to the computer discovered that I have much to learn about taking photos at night!
Even so, this was the "equipment":
Seeing the Fyrlyts "in the flesh" was interesting. They are an exceptionally well designed and built light with a number of features that, I think, count in their favour. Probably the best base and mounting system I've ever seen, what appears to be a very high quality build in a stylish and modern design. Things like replaceable lenses recognise the reality and harshness of life hanging off the front of a moving vehicle while the quality of light, spread and range seemed to be way ahead of the competition. Spread was comparable to the Hellas (maybe a little less streaky and with a smoother transition to the central spot) while range was better than the Lightforce (even with HID bulbs). Some may say that the ability to change from "spread" to "spot" mode is a little gimmicky but there was, certainly, a noticeable difference, boosting light in the 0-200m range while not appearing to lose intensity in the central spot for distance. I would love to see isolux diagrams or even just some tabulated results of readings at various distances, but we didn't have that kind of equipment.
When we finished I went down the end of the road and measured the distance from where we were set up to the tree at the end. 420m.
I took a number of photos and after loading on to the computer discovered that I have much to learn about taking photos at night!
Even so, this was the "equipment":
Seeing the Fyrlyts "in the flesh" was interesting. They are an exceptionally well designed and built light with a number of features that, I think, count in their favour. Probably the best base and mounting system I've ever seen, what appears to be a very high quality build in a stylish and modern design. Things like replaceable lenses recognise the reality and harshness of life hanging off the front of a moving vehicle while the quality of light, spread and range seemed to be way ahead of the competition. Spread was comparable to the Hellas (maybe a little less streaky and with a smoother transition to the central spot) while range was better than the Lightforce (even with HID bulbs). Some may say that the ability to change from "spread" to "spot" mode is a little gimmicky but there was, certainly, a noticeable difference, boosting light in the 0-200m range while not appearing to lose intensity in the central spot for distance. I would love to see isolux diagrams or even just some tabulated results of readings at various distances, but we didn't have that kind of equipment.
gf0012-aust
Newly Enlightened
I wouldn't mind going out again in a couple of weeks time
I'll have the 37" 200w CREE LED light bar on by then. It will be interesting to see the difference between 60x3w Samsung P7 and the 20x10w CREE
Plus it will give me some time to make up some quick release lighting harnesses for my spare LED light bars and other spotlights.
They've been decommissioned but will still be interesting to compare against
I'll have the 37" 200w CREE LED light bar on by then. It will be interesting to see the difference between 60x3w Samsung P7 and the 20x10w CREE
Plus it will give me some time to make up some quick release lighting harnesses for my spare LED light bars and other spotlights.
They've been decommissioned but will still be interesting to compare against
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wcowan
Newly Enlightened
It's easy to repeat the setup and camera settings so you can compare with the other lights we looked at. I've kept the same camera settings in all of the driving light pictures I've posted.
Cheers
William Cowan
gf0012-aust
Newly Enlightened
might also have to get some witches hats and use them as markers...
wcowan
Newly Enlightened
Or measure the distance between the power poles.
