Mag-Tac LED new from Mag-Lite...

[tjhabak]

Interested to know if the lens is glass or plastic, and if the reflector is aluminum or plastic. If they are plastic, might be a deal breaker for me, as there are plenty of lights out there at that price point with better quality materials. Also how easy is it to disassemble, get to the reflector, led, electronics?

It disassembles the same way that the XL series does. The head/lens/reflector assembly screws off exposing the led/pill. I took a reflector out of my old XL50 to stipple it. It's pressed in, but can be worked out. I've found that the easiest way to do it is to grab the fins molded into the back of the reflector alternately with needle nose pliers. I also replaced the lens with a glass one from an old Mini-Mag mod.



Sent from my PC36100 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2

 

[El Camino]

Interesting. I thought it was going to have a glass lens. Maybe they figure scratches are better than cracks, but I thought one of the delays was due to a switch to glass.

CR123 vs 18650: I wonder of Mag Industries is reluctant to use 18650's because of quality and potential venting/exploding issues. Considering they will warranty a flashlight that has corroded from leaking alkies, maybe they decided not to mess with 18650's for the time being. Just a thought.

 

[dano]

Interesting. I thought it was going to have a glass lens. Maybe they figure scratches are better than cracks, but I thought one of the delays was due to a switch to glass.

CR123 vs 18650: I wonder of Mag Industries is reluctant to use 18650's because of quality and potential venting/exploding issues. Considering they will warranty a flashlight that has corroded from leaking alkies, maybe they decided not to mess with 18650's for the time being. Just a thought.

Or maybe because MAG doesn't want to use a tertiary, potentially unsafe power source mainly used by light hobbyists and not the general user?

 

[dano]

Received one of each. Interestingly, the mode switching is in the tailcap. The tailcap marked TM is the on-strobe mode on the crowned bezel. The tailcap marked TL has the momentary-lo mode, on the light with non crowned bezel.

Overall, Mag has done an excellent job with these.

 

[Raptor Factor]

Does anyone know why the crowned bezel version has over 1000 candella more on the maglite website? 9267 vs. 8293 with only a 10 lumen difference...

 

[Robin24k]

Most likely, it's manufacturing variation with the reflector coating. With the XL-series, the beam pattern usually changes if you put the bezel back in a different way...

 

[Yehudah]

I just saw an ad in a magazine for the new MAG-TAC led light from Mag Instruments. It advertises 250 Lumens, run time of 4.5 hours and uses 2 CR132's. It said it is available in Urban Gray, Coyote Tan, Foliage Green and black. It actually didn't look too bad, it had a grenade style grip with a crenelated bezel.

First I've heard of it and I can't find a thing on it doing a Google search.

well by now you may have sen it on the web because it was recently released

 

[david57strat]

First of all, let me say that I've used Maglites for many years (almost as long as they've been around), and still own a handful of them - but the only ones that get any use today, are the ones that I've invested the time and money to uprade with LEDs. For the most part, I seem to be using more EagleTac, Olight, and (the ever-controversial) Led Lenser lights, above most else - so far, anyway.All you guys brought up a lot of really interesting points here; so I'll try and address some of them:

They don't care about "most of this forum". Their market is and always has been the average Joe who does his flashlight shopping at Walmart, Home Depot, and sporting goods stores.

I think it's kind of sad that Maglite seem to give little consideration to the flashlight enthusiast - at least, as compared to other flashlight companies. I've no idea how much revenue they're pulling in now, given the fact that they're no longer at the top of the flashlight market (Although my perception could be completely wrong, being that I'm a flashlight fanatic, like most of us, in this forum lol). Maybe they are still at the top, insofar as the average Joe is concerned, since this kind of buyer will usually go no farther than the nearest Home Depot, Lowes, or Target, etc., to find a new flashlight); but I would think Mag could make a killing, if they were more competitive (feature-wise) with other companies that offer many more user interface and battery options, suited for a user's varying needs - if only they were willing to broaden their demographic a bit. At one point, Maglite were at the top of the heap, and you simply could not buy a better light. That has changed radically, in the past five years. I understand, it takes a very large investment of money, time, and research, to continue to be innovative, and at the top. I also understand the basic school of thought, which says "If it ain't broke, why fix it". But, it was this willingness to take a chance, in the first place, that prompted Maglite to become the leader in flashlights, for quite a long time; before other flashlights came along - made by companies who were willing to NOT be satisfieid with the status quo, and ever eager to take technology to its limits, to make a better light available to the public. Remember the days when people (You, for instance) used to show their newly-acquired Maglites to others and hear those others say (as they stared shamefully at their huge 6-Volt, seriously under-powered lanterns), "Wow....you're getting all that light out that tiny flashlight?" This is no longer true of the Maglite - but it could be, once again - if they re-invested some of their profits in more R & D. After all, they continue to have the world-wide name recognition. Why not capitalize on that, and expand their product offerings to reflect that sense of innovation that made them so famous, in the first place? Maglite could be considered "cutting edge" again. I'd love to see that. I suppose ignorance is bliss (as far as the non-flashlight enthusiasts go); and if for none other than that reason, Maglite will probably continue to sell boatloads of flashlights every year; but wouldn't it be so nice if they decided to expand their user base to include people other than the average household user? I'm not saying they haven't begun to do so - after all, they've managed to come up with this light (with its tailcap switch, apparently more serious anodizing, higher power, and running on CR123s), which is a far cry from anything else they've ever offered up previously.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe crenulated (hmmm.. another word spellcheck doesn't recognize) bezels were originally designed to allow the user to see light spilling out from the emitter if the light were left bezel down on a flat surface. I believe that their purpose has evolved since then, and while still great for that, on a "tactical" light, I would think that they're there to aid in the light's use as a striking/control device. I like slight crenulations, but larger ones tend to muck up the beam profile, with extreme examples like the Solarforce A001 bezel with Klingon tri-tip death razor bezel ring forcing the beam into a triangular shape. Shao

I think there are several schools of thought, with respect to the purpose of the crenelated bezel (or "crowned" bezel, as they call it). Some people believe it's to be able to see whether or not the light is still on, even if you stand the light upright (for storage) on it's head (lens down). Others swear it's useful for tactical/self-defense purposes. Still others believe that it just looks cool - although some people believe otherwise. Then there are also those who believe that the bezel will protect the lens from being cracked, or scratched, in the event of the light being dropped. It's easy enough (in most cases, since the bezel is often threaded and user-replaceable) to buy/replace it (without ever having to send the light back to the factory), if this happens. That seems like a more plausable explanation for the use of this type of bezel, to me - but that's just my opinion - although I agree it does give the light a cool factor (a more aggresive look). To each, his or her own.

Interested to know if the lens is glass or plastic, and if the reflector is aluminum or plastic. If they are plastic, might be a deal breaker for me, as there are plenty of lights out there at that price point with better quality materials. Also how easy is it to disassemble, get to the reflector, led, electronics?

I cannot imagine paying for a light at this price point, and getting a plastic lens. Maglite have been selling product with plastic lenses, for seemingly forever; but the fact that they manufacture a glass lens for some of their lights (?) seems to indicate that theyr'e becoming more aware of the desire (for some flashlight owners) to have something a little less prone to scratches. I'm not sure if they designed this light to be all that water resistant, and whether or not using a glass lens would have any effect on their ability to be water proof.

Actually, as far as I know, there is no mention of waterproofing of this light. I believe all of their lights are water resistant, but not waterproof - especially the focusable lights; but now that they've come up with a fixed beam...I would expect a light, at this price point, to be waterproof to IPX-8 standards; and if these were, they would probably be bragging about it, big-time.

As for the reflector, I don't think Maglite have ever built a light with an aluminum reflector. That'd be nice. Doing so might actually help with heat dissipation. It would also be wonderful if they built some sort of heat-sinking into the light, to keep it from stepping down in power, so quickly; but maybe they've addressed that, with this model...?

Maybe that's why only Black is available ?I always liked the fact that many of the Maglites sold over the years (especially the 3D versions) came in so many different color finishes. It would be a shame not to offer that up here (with this model), as well - whether for the consumer, or for professional (military, LEO, service industry) use.Maybe the Military got the Urban Gray, Tan, and Fol. Green first.

I'd sure love to see all colors available to the consumer. Also, I can't see, at this price point, why they couldn't engineer the light to offer BOTH, the low power output, AND the strobe option. How hard would that be to offer to the potential buyer?

 

[dano]

1. the "Flashlight Enthusiast" is hardly a blip on the radar of the big three: Mag, Streamlight and Surefire.
2. Mag outsells everyone by a large margin. The Chinese based lights don't sell that many units compared to SF, SL or Mag.
3. I much prefer a plastic lens, mainly because I've broken several glass lenses on the smallest of drops. Glass lenses can't handle the shock of a drop, under most circumstances.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

As for the reflector, I don't think Maglite have ever built a light with an aluminum reflector. That'd be nice. Doing so might actually help with heat dissipation. It would also be wonderful if they built some sort of heat-sinking into the light, to keep it from stepping down in power, so quickly; but maybe they've addressed that, with this model...?

The MagCharger has an aluminium reflector and a glass lens.

As for the steeping down, isn't this a prgrammed feature of the modern Mag LEDs rather than due to heat? So they offer level max output for 3 mins or so, then gradually step down to a lower constant output. The gradual step down is done as most people probably wouldn't notice. And if you don't notice, what's the harm in stepping down to reduce heat and promote run time?

If you turn it off and on it'll reset the light back to max again for 3 mins before stepping down. No idea if this is how the MagTac works, but that's how I thought the XL200 and ML125 where setup.

I suppose another way of looking at it, is it always turns on in a "turbo" mode, which will gradually reduce to the normal 'high' mode. In this respect there are many other 'premium' lights that do the same, be it 4Sevens, Klarus, JetBeam, EagleTac and so on.

 

[david57strat]

The MagCharger has an aluminium reflector and a glass lens.

As for the steeping down, isn't this a prgrammed feature of the modern Mag LEDs rather than due to heat? So they offer level max output for 3 mins or so, then gradually step down to a lower constant output. The gradual step down is done as most people probably wouldn't notice. And if you don't notice, what's the harm in stepping down to reduce heat and promote run time?

If you turn it off and on it'll reset the light back to max again for 3 mins before stepping down. No idea if this is how the MagTac works, but that's how I thought the XL200 and ML125 where setup.

I suppose another way of looking at it, is it always turns on in a "turbo" mode, which will gradually reduce to the normal 'high' mode. In this respect there are many other 'premium' lights that do the same, be it 4Sevens, Klarus, JetBeam, EagleTac and so on.

The only LED Maglites that I currently own are the 2D (with the Rebel driver. It was given to me as a gift), and the XL200. I read, in some posts here on CPF, that people who own these (D-cell) LED lights are still complaining that the output is greatly sacrified, even after just ten minutes or so of use, because of the steep drain on the D alkaline batteries - not a new issue, by any means. I couldn't honestly say that I've experienced that, because I hate running down D batteries and having to constantly replace them. That, and the fact that I don't have a practical use for a D cell light, as an EDC light, because of its enormous size vs. desirable output and runtimes. Can't exactly EDC a D cell light comfortably on a belt, without attracting a lot of attention to yourself, not to mention, the discomfort of having such a huge light always attached to one's person. To me, is just doesn't make sense, when there are smaller, higher output, also very well-constructed lights available. Now - if that light put out 900 lumens, then I'd say "who cares....gotta have the output, so I'll sacrifice size for output", and deal with the strange stares, and extra weight. But that's not the case, and my other lights produce better, brighter output, while using more economical, and eco-friendly 18650s, mainly. I love not having to buy batteries all the time (like I was doing, when I used nothing but D-cell lights), knowing that I'm going to get hundreds of charges on one or two batteries, with consistent, regulated output, rather going through hundreds or primaries (and dollars). On the other hand, there simply are some lights that don't offer up the rechargeable-friendly battery option, but DO have other amazing features, so they become "gotta have it" lights, regardless. I just don't use them nearly as much as the 18650 lights, mostly for economical reasons.

I had all but forgotten about the MAGCharger. Thanks for making mention of that. There was a time when I wanted to own one, because of the higher output (which Maglite used to rate in candlepower, rather than lumens, as they do today), and the recharging feature (in spite of the now obsolete NiCd battery it used to come with - horrible battery, with memory problems.

NiCads are just inherently inconsistent in maintaining battery capacity, when charged at different times (i.e., without first fully draining, or "cycling" them - EVERY time). I'm glad they finally upgraded to a NiMH battery that can be retrofitted to all of their previous MAGCharger models.

I hadn't even heard of any of these other companies (I doubt they even existed - the likes of EagleTac, Fenix, etc.), or I may have started exerimenting with their lights, years ago. At the time, the most powerful light I owned was the 6D incandescent Mag, which I had upgraded with the Magnum star bulb, so the MAGCharger seemed like a dream come true, but it had its pitfalls, and the cost was one of them.

It makes sense that they use the aluminum reflector and glass lense on the MAGCharger; but notice that's the only model that seems to offer up that combination of materials (lens/reflector) from the start, while the rest of their models seem to have remained all plastic. I think the reasons they did, with this model, were to keep the lens and reflector from melting, due to the heat produced by the now considered old-school "improved", higher output halogen bulb. I don't care how "modern" the halogen bulb is, it's going to produce heat, and lots of it, very quickly. There's no way around that. Something (like the reflector...?) needs to act as a heatsink, to avoid having the light overheating, sacrificing output and run times.

Re-addressing the step-down feature of a Maglite, I (and I'm sure, many others) would rather they just regulate their lights better, and heatsink them better, so they don't have to be stepped down incrementally, just to stay cool, or give better runtimes. This MAGTac is a great step in the right direction, with the far higher output than anything ever offered up before, in a far more EDC-friendly package. I just hope that the output is real, and not constantly stepping down in output, just to live up to the runtime claim.

I also read somewhere that a glass lens is a better medium, for producing the purest beam of light, as opposed to plastic. And once the plastic lens become scratched, there is a sacrifice in the beam quality. (can someone verify this, please?)

Wouldn't it be cool of Corningware (the makers of Gorilla Glass, the very thin, strong, and highly scratch-resistant glass used on the displays of many of today's smart devices) teamed up with Mag and used their glass on the lenses of all Mag products? That's some pretty strong, and thin glass. It's not indestructible, but it's pretty tough, and heavily scratch resistant. I can vouch for the glass, because it's been on my iPhone 4, which I purchased a year ago (with no screen protector film ever used), and there isn't a mark on it. I only wish all smart devices used that glass, rather than cheap, easy-to-scratch plastic).

For you Californians who like Tommy's chili, this would be like getting Ruby's Diner (or pick your favorite burger joint) to join up with Tommy's Burgers, using Tommy's chili in their burgers - a little jolt of chili flavor. They would KILL the competition!!! But - that's another thread...probably in another forum altogether lol...and you either love Tommy's chili, or you hate it. It's one of those deals.

I own the XL200, but hadn't noticed a stepping down of output, while in use for several minutes; but I'm using Eneloops, and maybe that affects the step-down feature...? I also own EagleTac's D25LC2, and have never noticed the step-down feature kicking in (from Turbo), even after several minutes of use. It does get pretty hot, though, in the hand, so I often resort to switching lights (maybe to an M20-X, for instance) if I'm going to be using a light for an extended period. I'm using a EagleTac 3100 MaH Lithium Ion batteriy in the D25...

It's kind of hard to understand the draw of the MAGCharger, these days. It's huge, weighs a ton (comparitively speaking), only puts out 240 lumens, and for only two hours, at that. Most tactical lights weigh about a fourth as much, are several inches shorter, and produce upwards of an hour-and-a-half of light at full power (many of them, at 500 plus floody lumens); at a mere 300+ lumen ("lower") output, they far exceed the runtime of the MAGCharger); not all, but many, in a far less expensive package than Maglite are offering - well, with the exception of this new MAGTac -somewhat.

Are Mag still charging 100 plus dollars for the MAGCharger system? I would love to see them update the MAGCharger to produce a higher lumen output - or at least a longer run time, at the currently-rated 240 lumens, and do away, once and for all, with the halogen lamp altogether. I know opinions vary, but that's mine. The LEDs of today are far more stable and stronger than their halogen counterparts - far less prone to fail, under hard use, and, as a general rule, the better LEDs (not the ones you find in those 1-dollar, 9-LED grocery counter lights) have a far longer rated service life than halogens.

I'm not slamming Maglite at all. I have several of their lights, and I don't plan on getting rid of any more than I have (Over the years, I've given many of them as gifts, to parents, friends, etc., because I really believed in their product, and I wanted everyone I knew and cared about to have at least one Maglite); but for me to want to use the ones I've got left, I need to upgrade the rest of the ones I haven't already upgraded, with decent LED drivers, so they can keep up with today's lights - especially if I have to continue using primary batteries, rather than rechargeables.

As for LEO baton use of the Maglite...how about just letting the light be a light (a smaller, more powerful one, like this new MAGTac), and if you must have a baton - just carry a baton...? I"m not an LEO, and I'm probably oversimplifying a long-standing argument for carrying a big, super-heavy light, in spite of the fact that (as a stock product) it does not outshine the newer lights, weighing in at far less, and much easier to belt carry - especially if you're carrying more than one light at a time, which many flashaholics do, anyway.

My 6D light could stand a serious upgrade, because it won't really keep up with my little tiny Pelican M6 incandescent, as far as brightness (The M6 is rated at 74 lumens...I don't know if that's OTF, or not). The run time on the M6 is terrible, though (I think maybe an hour or so, and of course, it is quickly and progressivly dimming from the very start, as all non-regulated lights do); and of course, the beam is not focusable.

Anyway - I'm still very intrigued by Maglite's new offering, here; and even if just to keep up with the tradition of owning at least some Mags, I'd like to own one (especially if it really has a 4-hour runtime at the full rated output - that would be pretty impressive, in and of itself, for a Maglite product); but I'm probably going to hold off until the price drops at least a little bit, on this new model; and I won't be surprised when they offer a higher power model, with more features. In the meantime, I'm drooling over EagleTac's new G25C2 MKII. Yes, it's thirty dollars more than the MagTac, but it's significantly more light output/lighter package/super robust construction, waterproof to IPX-8 standards, and I can run it on a single 18650 battery (or 2 CR123s), with options to use more CR123s or 18650s (with the appropriate battery extenders), for far better run times. That's hard to beat, for the money, and I really like having the extra battery/battery type options available to me.

Gotta get both lol. Need to start saving my pennies, here...

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Wow big reply .

Not sure why you decided to talk D cell Mags, these are very different to the MagTac and tbh I think Mag are looking for the lowest R&D and production changes to keep the 'flagship' most well know model going. It still sells well, so as the old saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Sure heat is an issue in them, but considering most people only use flashlights for short periods at a time I don't think it's actually an issue for most people. And I'm sure Mag could solve and fix this heat issue if they wanted to, but it'd cost time and money to do and likely wouldn't bring in more sales in the mass market, nor allow them to charge more for the D cell Mag either. So why would they "waste" money doing so?

From a business stand point I think they are doing just enough to remain competitive with the D cell Mags in the mass market, but without undue development and tooling costs for no gain. Other new 'compact' flashlight lines are a different matter, and as you can see Mag have in the last 5 years or so introduced 10 different compact LED torches!

On the topic of lenses and reflectors. I'm lead to believe (but don't know for sure) that all Solitaire Mags use a glass lens. So they aren't all plastic. Also I really can't see an issue with a coated plastic reflector vs a coated aluminium one? An OP aluminium reflector will lose more lumens than any plastic SMO one will.


The XL200 does indeed step down, but as said earlier this isn't due to heat. It's by design and it does it gradually so you can hardly tell by eye that it's happening (which evidently works... ).

These graphs are from Robin Wang @ LED Resource.

I believe the ML125, Mini Mag Pro also use this sort of regulation (Mini Mag slightly different), so I'd expect the MagTac may well be similar. Incidentally it's also very similar to Led Lensers approach to regulation too.

As you can see in the first graph, the output is level but steps down after '12' mins. This isn't due to heat, but to extend run time. Mag also know most people most of the time only use a flashlight for a few mins or under before turning it off. And if you are using it for longer than a few mins continuous then runtime is likely more important than outright lumen output. This approach means they can genuinely get 1.5 hours (NiMh) run time of good stable usable light. And most people probably won't even release it's stepped down.

Yes alkalines don't perform as well, but that's physics more than Mags doing.

But what I think is great is if you turn the light off and on again you'll be back to full power. So for most of us who only use our light for 3 mins or under at a time that means each and every time we use something like an XL200 we are indeed getting constant regulated MAX output. And if you use it for extended run times, then all you have to do is cycle the light off/on to retain max output.

But as you can see, running max on a 90% duty cycle meant just under 1 hour run time vs 1.5 hours for allowing the step down, that's quite a large percentage difference in run time IMO.

Mag are fully capable of programming a flat continuous output if they wanted too, but you'd likely be down to 45-50 mins run time vs the 1.5 hours they can attain by being a little bit more clever.


I know it's easy to scoff at Mags regulation on first glance, but I actually think it's a thing of genius and really offers up far more usability to the user. Ok you could say they should make it switchable to set constant current regulation vs run time regulation. But for most MagLite buyers would this really be a feature they'd want or need? If not, then it's just an un-needed additional cost.


Cliff notes:

-If you only use an XL200 for a few mins at a time you are ALWAYS getting constant current flat MAX regulation and output
-should you need to use it long time, the torch will automatically give you the best run time, potentially increasing it's light producing ability nearly double the amount of time
-The regulation is clever as it effectively adapts depending on your use
-it however doesn't produce such pretty straight line graphs for CPF memers!



I too have a D25LC2 Mini EagleTac. It's step down on turbo is there for heat management. So coincidentally doing the exact thing you moaned about Mag doing, despite Mag not actually doing this...... (I accept the lumen differences are high however )





Overall what I'm saying is. I personally think MagLite's idea of regulation (XL200), in the real world, for real world use actually works better than most of the 'premium' lights flat regulation does. It's just more advanced. So on that note, I hope the MagTac follows the XL200 with a similar regulation pattern and program.

 

[Robin24k]

I can finally say, with certainty, that my MAG-TAC samples will be arriving today...unless UPS has some screw-up.

I'll try to have runtime graphs for these lights up before the end of the day, and hopefully the Pro 2D tomorrow.

 

[Big_Ed]

I got my Mag-Tac today, and I must say, it has a really good feel in hand. Knurling seems just right. Not sure about the clip, though. Is that plastic? It feels like it. Hopefully it will prove to be durable. I like the UI (especially the first press momentary on), and the brightness puts it above all my Surefires, with the possible exception of my Malkoff MC-E modded L4. Definitely a home run in my book.

 

[Toohotruk]

Solitaires have plastic lenses.

 

[Robin24k]

I've got some partially completed runtime test results to share.

 

[StudFreeman]

Cool, thanks for the runtime plots, robin! I do hope it uses the power-managing timed duty cycle regulation. I'm also very interested in seeing how the 2D Pro performs because it's more my cup of tea (I hope it is also timer-regulated like the MM Pro).
I'm kind of anxious to hear how these new offerings perform and read your full impressions of the new lights.

 

[Robin24k]

We have a little problem with the 2D...it didn't come with any batteries, and I don't have any alkalines...

I have done a test with NiMH AA's, and will post the results once I find the right thread for it. I will be able to get my hands on some D-cell's, but it's not going to be until December.

EDIT: Started a new thread for it:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?346158-Maglite-Pro-2D

 

[Raptor Factor]

Will doing a duty cycle on a Maglite (such as the Pro 2D) with alkaline batteries still yield 100% power for a few minutes on most of the cycles?

 

[jabe1]

I'll bet, if you asked, someone would send a couple Alkalines.....

in the name of science of course.