Newbie questions

[germ65]

Hello,
this is my first post and I hope not to be flamed.

After reading this forum for a while and looking mostly at compact "pocket-size" (1xAA) LED flashlights I do have a couple of questions to which I could not find an answer:

Q1. Why is a zoomable beam (like in a Maglite) such a rare feature? I would think that this is one of the first things I would be looking for.
Q2. Same for continuously adjustable brightness. I have seen a couple (Sunwayman for example), but only in expensive models. Is it a matter of implementing a waterproof rotary control or the complexity of the regulating circuit?

Thanks for insights.

 

[rb765]

Hello,
this is my first post and I hope not to be flamed.

After reading this forum for a while and looking mostly at compact "pocket-size" (1xAA) LED flashlights I do have a couple of questions to which I could not find an answer:

Q1. Why is a zoomable beam (like in a Maglite) such a rare feature? I would think that this is one of the first things I would be looking for.
Q2. Same for continuously adjustable brightness. I have seen a couple (Sunwayman for example), but only in expensive models. Is it a matter of implementing a waterproof rotary control or the complexity of the regulating circuit?

Thanks for insights.

I am by no means an expert, but I have been using lights for many years that have adjustable beams (ie: streamlights, magchargers, etc). What I found at after years of using them, I would find a setting that worked for me and then never touched that setting again. When I upgraded to modern lights, I just found lights that have a beam that I liked and never looked back. I think that most actual users think the zoom is gimicky.

As far as the rotary dial, I do have a Sunwayman with dial and I love it as my EDC light. However, in my tac lights, I prefer a fixed adjustable light so that it turns on to the level I set every time. On several occasions, I go to turn on my Sunwayman that I I had left on high only to find the dial had turned itself down and I ended up having to fiddle with it. This would not be good in an emergency, so I prefer fixed steps for that purpose.

 

[emarkd]

I think Maglite-style zoom setups are unpopular because they're a big compromise and provide little benefit. Back 15 years ago when flashlights struggled to produce a dozen lumens, having a zoom (really a focusing) feature could be beneficial. But today's lights with hundreds (or thousands) of lumens just don't need it. Its easy today to produce a light with a beautiful and useful beam that can be adjusted by changing its output instead of its shape. That way you always have a perfectly formed beam, no aberrations or other funky shapes, inside a sealed and waterproof body.

Zoomies are still around, by the way. Maglite of course still makes them. I've got a current Maglite, a ML300LX, and its...underwhelming I'm sorry to say. Other zoom styles are around, too, like the cheap slide-to-zoom lights or the better twist to zoom like the Jax Z1 or Brinyte B158. I have some of those too. They're fun, I guess, a novelty, but I wouldn't want to carry one and use it every day. The zoom mechanisms make them unnecessarily bulky, prevent proper waterproofing, and often introduce trash in the beam pattern. No thanks.

Rotaries, however, are a great thing. Its a great UI. I've got a Nitecore SRT7 with rotary control. Its a neat light. I also have a Sunwayman V11r, which is a great little EDC light. But my favorite rotary is my HDS HCri 200 Rotary. Its a fantastic light. I think having the rotary control at the tail of the light is the proper place to have it. The HDS is probably more expensive than your average "good" flashlight but the others really aren't I don't think.

 

[germ65]

emarkd, thanks for your suggestions.

I did not mean to imply that Maglites are the best flashlights. I still think that a focusable beam would be useful, but perhaps it isn't worth the compromises you mention.
The two models you cite really aren't what I was looking for (compact 1xAA designs).

As for the brightness control, the HDS is way too expensive, a little bulky, and uses an exotic battery. Sunwayman seems the way to go if I really want that.

 

[bykfixer]

Hello,
this is my first post and I hope not to be flamed.

After reading this forum for a while and looking mostly at compact "pocket-size" (1xAA) LED flashlights I do have a couple of questions to which I could not find an answer:

Q1. Why is a zoomable beam (like in a Maglite) such a rare feature? I would think that this is one of the first things I would be looking for.
Q2. Same for continuously adjustable brightness. I have seen a couple (Sunwayman for example), but only in expensive models. Is it a matter of implementing a waterproof rotary control or the complexity of the regulating circuit?

Thanks for insights.

Ok, lets get down to brass tacks here....

Flamers are not popular here at quite possibly THE WORLDS friendliest forum.

Ok that is not for real...actually we are all junkies so we act all cool hoping to lure in unsuspecting folks to create even more junkies....

Nah, seriously...good questions. Welcome to the site. This is a well run site with generally organized conversations by friendly people.

Like the others said the zoomie light creates a scenario where you pick your favorite point of zoom. Mag has a twisty focus. Some others have sliding heads. Each has it's own good and bad.

A lot of folks decide whether a flood light or a spot light and go in that direction. The zoomie lets you do either.
For general use most folks can live with, largely un noticing the "flaws" of the beam. They want light in darkness.
Mag has done great at pulling in that crowd by making reliable, simple to operate and inexpensive going in flashlights.

Now again like others said...once upon a time flashlights as a rule were not very bright. These days things have changed. So there are times the masses don't want their flashlight mimic-ing the headlights of an automobile all the time. But also being people like shiney stuff purchase the brightest light their money can buy...these days with the ability to turn it down.
I'm guessing strobe is popular as the masses have been led to believe strobe is like pepper spray....

That describes the masses.

But us flashlight junkies...we have a more educated approach to purchasing the (no longer) ordinary flashlight.

Hope that helps.

 

[emarkd]

emarkd, thanks for your suggestions.

I did not mean to imply that Maglites are the best flashlights. I still think that a focusable beam would be useful, but perhaps it isn't worth the compromises you mention.
The two models you cite really aren't what I was looking for (compact 1xAA designs).

As for the brightness control, the HDS is way too expensive, a little bulky, and uses an exotic battery. Sunwayman seems the way to go if I really want that.

I understand where you're coming from. If you really want the Maglite style of light, then go for it. They're still fine lights and will serve you well, you just won't get quite as much (or as good) light for your money. I hate that, too. Like most folks here above a certain age, I grew up with Maglite. I still have a very soft spot for them and wish they would get it together and become competitive again. I'm ready to fully support them if they do, but they really haven't yet.

As for compact 1xAA lights, there's always the cheapie Sipik SK68 clones. Those are popular because they're so cheap. Buy 2 so you'll have an extra when one fails. They're fun though, just not great quality.

Sunwayman makes good lights so I'm sure you would enjoy them. Go for it. I understand about the HDS sticker shock. I've only got one (which I do love) because they're so pricey. It took me a while to get over the shock, too. Its not an exotic battery though. If you're determined to never use anything but AA or AAA then you're really going to be limiting yourself from a lot of great flashlights. AA/AAA's are really a pretty bad choice for flashlights (except for tiny penlights of course) - low voltage, low current capability, low capacity. There's really nothing good about them, except that you can buy them at any corner store. Then again the CR123 that the HDS uses is also available at just about any corner store, too. They're sold as camera batteries. But really the faster you get into rechargeable lithium ions, the better off you'll be. Depending on size the cells hold A LOT more power and the fact that they're rechargeable means that eventually you'll start saving money by reusing them. That doesn't even take very long if you use your light often. Plus most of the best lights require them.

 

[bykfixer]

I'll add....
I carry a $15 Streamlight Microstream in one pocket. And a $10 Coast HP1in the other.
The microstream provides a good shadow lighter and very useful output for most of my daily needs. A simple on/off and the 1aaa lasts for months.
The Coast puts out a ton more light when I need a flashlight in daytime. If it's overwhelming I slide the head to spill and difuse all that extra light. Simple on/off and the 1aa lasts for months. And it tailstands.

With about 300 flashlights at my disposal those are the two I use the most as they fit well in a pocket with a knife, chapstick, coins, nail clippers, a flash drive and stuff like that.

Now the rest are like tools in a tool chest. If I need a torque wrench I grab a torque wrench. If I need a flashlight to light up my street I grab the light for that. If I need a hands free light that lights around corners I have one for that.
But instead of housing them in a tool chest I place them either where they will likely be the most useful, or at a location like a bag where I know they'll be when needed.
I keep all of my magnetic lights attached to my refidgerator for example.

But in terms of the casual user decide what you'd prefer in a 'universal' tool box and set about accomplishing that task.
If your day to day uses would vary in terms of brightness required, a multi setting light may be the best.
If sometimes you need a spot light and others a flood light a zoomie is a great place to start.
Decide your budget going in and how much you can afford over time.
Example, if you'd rather use rechargeables set a budget where you can acquire good cells and a good charger. If not, then you may find the inexpensive stuff keeps failing when you need it.
I use mostly store bought type batteries for reliable service with a few lights that run off of rechargeables. But they are known to be reliable rechargeables.

Flashlights are like soda pop. There are a whole lot of choices and everybody has a favorite.

 

[186kmps]

bykfixer , you are truly wise ! Yes, let your flashlight needs direct your spending!

 

[vadimax]

Lights with variable focus. I've got one -- Fenix FD40. All in all it is an excellent flashlight with an optimized optics, but... In flood mode its 1000 lm look a bit insufficient. If you need "a wall of light" some 3000 lm sound more appropriate. But those 3000 lm require very effective heat dissipation, otherwise the light will fry itself... And a moving head negates an opportunity to organize effective heat transfer.

This is a situation when you cannot be good at all. There are excellent throwers and excellent flooders, but never both at once. That's why a variable focus lights will always be a compromise, suffering insufficiency in flood mode.

Just my 2 cents

 

[germ65]

bykfixer, appreciate your suggestions. The Microstream definitely looks good, except that I would prefer something running on 1xAA for more capacity. The Coast HP1 also looks like a bargain. Maybe a little too big. I really like that it can use both types of batteries, alkaline and Li-Ion.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Hello,
this is my first post and I hope not to be flamed.

After reading this forum for a while and looking mostly at compact "pocket-size" (1xAA) LED flashlights

Hi and welcome.

For pocket carry, it's amazing the size range of lights that are suitable. 1AA is a good size, but not the only one. It really depends how you want to carry a torch. I find I prefer to carry one by clipping to the inside of my pocket, facing downwards.

Carrying a 2AA or other battery format light is just as easy and comfortable this way as a 1AA light is. If you want to carry it floating in your pocket, then yes, small and compact is ideal. And 1AA might be the perfect mix, although there are some very good 1AAA lights these days and of course CR123a sized, that might also fit the bill.


If you haven't already, you may want to consider the type of battery you want to use. It falls into two main camps really.

-Non Li-ion, which is mostly NiMh, Lithium primary and alakline (these are terrible and shouldn't be used really).

These mostly have 1.2-1.5v (or 3v for a CR123a). But this limits performance of the lights.


-Li-ion. These batteries come in lots of different sizes, but they are all typically 4.2v, which gives them a rather massive performance boost over an 1.5v powered light.

I do have a couple of questions to which I could not find an answer:

Q1. Why is a zoomable beam (like in a Maglite) such a rare feature? I would think that this is one of the first things I would be looking for.

Really the Mags don't "zoom", it's a focus. Which is a bit of legacy from the days when incan bulbs weren't all built equally, i.e. the filament wasn't always in the same place. So an adjustable focus allowed you to optimise the beam for the variable quality of the bulbs.

In the LED world, this is somewhat redundant. Although it is still Maglites USP (unique selling point).

As a trade off an adjustable focus does allow you a degree of variable beam, giving you a semi-flood mod. Although it's not always the cleanest of beams.

An adjustable focus also allows you to optimise the focus for different distances, so if you have been using you torch at long distance, you can get the tightest focus possible for maximum throw. However if you then move indoors and you are pointing it at objects that might only be 2 feet away, you'll see a big donut hole in the beam. The adjustable focus allows you to get rid of this. Most fixed focus lights are a compromise to either avoid a donut hole in the beam, or if a dedicated thrower, just something you have to put up with.


Overall the adjustable focus is still a cool and potentially handy trait, but it isn't the be all and end all these days, and often not needed at all on other lights.


If "zooming" is interests you, then there are zoom lights that offer true flood to throw beams. The most notable is Led Lenser. They use a TIR optic and are pretty unique in this. Personally I really like these and the beams they produce. But Led Lenser don't really follow the rest of the flashlight world and do aim at the mass market with somewhat simpler designs (electronic wise), compromises and often high prices. But they are well built and do perform well within reason.


The other type of zoomy uses an aspheric lens. It works like the Led Lensers and gives a similar beam, although IMO not as nice. These are usually fond on many budget lights. Few premium brands offer a zoomy light. But for no real reason for why.

Q2. Same for continuously adjustable brightness. I have seen a couple (Sunwayman for example), but only in expensive models. Is it a matter of implementing a waterproof rotary control or the complexity of the regulating circuit?

Thanks for insights.

They aren't all that common. Complexity and cost are likely factors. And there simply are alternative ways of giving useful modes.

There are a couple of different types. Ramping drivers with a button you have to hold to change the brightness. These are continuously variable, but they are a pain to use IMO.

Rotary rings work well, but add length and another moving part.

And as odd as it may sound, sometimes you don't need 100+ output levels to choose from and 3 stepped modes are perfectly acceptable.

 

[reppans]

Some infinitely variable magnetic rings also have a high electrical fixed overhead requirement making them relatively inefficient at low lumen levels. My V11R, at its lowest output (barely perceptible), consumes about as much current as my multi-modes at 3 lumens (hence ~half the runtime at that output). On a "bright" moonlight output, the difference in runtime is about a factor of 4x.

 

[jon_slider]

AA Eneloops are a very good way to start safely imo
Here are some AA light options: Eagletac D25a, L3 Illumination L10, or L3 Illumination L11c, or Zebralight SC5fc.
The first three can be had with Nichia 219 LED, a personal favorite.

I do not recommend Lithium Ion to a newbie. see:
Flashlight Wiki
Li-ion cells must be monitored more closely than other chemistries. If they are charged too high (above 4.2 volts) or discharged too low, they can overheat or cause a fire. Some good advice is that if you don't have a volt meter and aren't willing to monitor the cells during use and won't be able to watch the cells the entire time they are in a charger, then you shouldn't be using them. See this thread for safe use of li-ion batteries.

OTOH, there is no problem charging Eneloops overnight (rechargeable NiMh).

I prefer not to use disposable batteries, so no CR123 (also no AA Alkaline), and I dont think youre educated enough (yet) to use LiIon safely, so no RCR123. LiIon could be something to consider when you have more experience and know your needs and preferences better. Of the 4 lights I list above, one of them is both AA and LiIon compatible. Look up the specs to find out which one

ps, check this thread also, it has info about light choices similar to your question
pocket friendly light!

 

[germ65]

jon, very good suggestions.

I am slowly converging towards a small AA pocket light.

My requirements:
1x AA (Li-Ion 14500 compatibility a plus)
Compact design (no more than 19 mm diameter, 90 mm length)
Good quality, solid construction
Somewhat waterproof
Reasonable price--no HDS for me :-(

So far the two best choices seem to be: Fenix LD09, Eagle-Tac D25a clicky.

AA Eneloops are a very good way to start safely imo
Here are some AA light options: Eagletac D25a, L3 Illumination L10, or L3 Illumination L11c, or Zebralight SC5fc.
The first three can be had with Nichia 219 LED, a personal favorite.

The Illumination lights look good, they fulfill my criteria, and have reasonable price. The only drawback is that 14500 use is not recommended.
From what I gather here, the zebralight is of good quality and very bright. Unfortunately I do not like their very wide head.

May I ask why you like the Nichia LED so much?

I do not recommend Lithium Ion to a newbie. see:
Flashlight Wiki
Li-ion cells must be monitored more closely than other chemistries. If they are charged too high (above 4.2 volts) or discharged too low, they can overheat or cause a fire. Some good advice is that if you don't have a volt meter and aren't willing to monitor the cells during use and won't be able to watch the cells the entire time they are in a charger, then you shouldn't be using them. See this thread for safe use of li-ion batteries.

OTOH, there is no problem charging Eneloops overnight (rechargeable NiMh).

I prefer not to use disposable batteries, so no CR123 (also no AA Alkaline), and I dont think youre educated enough (yet) to use LiIon safely, so no RCR123. LiIon could be something to consider when you have more experience and know your needs and preferences better. Of the 4 lights I list above, one of them is both AA and LiIon compatible. Look up the specs to find out which one

I maybe a newbie with LED lights, but I am a very technical person. I do have a multimeter at home and not afraid to measure voltages. We use alkalines at home (Costco makes this easy), but I have been pondering switching to eneloops. Li-Ion require yet another charger and another type of battery, not sure it's worth the hassle.

 

[jon_slider]

May I ask why you like the Nichia LED so much?

look at my last signature link "Tint (actually CCT) Selection" and page through looking at all the pictures to get oriented

I have a lot of criteria you dont mention. I dont want PWM, so I wont buy the Eagletac. I wont buy the Fenix because it is not High CRI, So the L3 L10 with Nichia 219 is closest to my primary criteria, No Clickie, No PWM and High CRI

I suggest you NOT straddle the fence with the 14500 requirement unless you can find a light with NoPWM, just buy an AA light with a Nichia 219 LED, and leave LiIon and Low CRI Cool White for another day and another flashlight.

When youre really ready for a LiIon experience, join the big boys and get into an 18650 light. Its in a whole other league. Or, if you want to edc something smaller, look at a single CR123 light (possibly the most popular high brightness edc battery size) with LiIon compatibility, High CRI, and NoPWM (which means no HDS, Malkoff nor McGizmo)

my sig also has a list of lights that use PWM, so you can avoid them if that becomes as important to you as it is to me.

Whatever you buy, you will learn things you like and new things you are curious about. I bet you cant buy just one

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I do not recommend Lithium Ion to a newbie. see:

I don't actually agree with this.

Being a newbie does not mean you are not capable of using Li-ion safely. And you also seem to be implying if someone has been around for ages then they must be implicitly safe and responsible enough for Li-ion.



As a for instance. If you get into the RC world of planes, heli's or even cars. Then there is little option but to go LiPo (essentially the same sort of thing), newbie or not.

 

[MX421]

I maybe a newbie with LED lights, but I am a very technical person. I do have a multimeter at home and not afraid to measure voltages. We use alkalines at home (Costco makes this easy), but I have been pondering switching to eneloops. Li-Ion require yet another charger and another type of battery, not sure it's worth the hassle.

If you are pondering switching to NiMh (Eneloops or equivalent) and also comtemplating going Li-Ion in the future, go ahead and get a charger that can charge multiple formats. I suggest the Xtar VC4, or Nitecore D4 (or the 2 cell equivalents). These are smart chargers and you can use them to charge Lithium Ion after you are aware of the dangers of using such cells.

As for AA lights, the D25A is good, and the Zebralights are really good. I know they don't look all that nice at first, but after using one, you tend to prefer them, or at least i did. I always EDC a zebralight pretty much...

 

[jon_slider]

I don't actually agree with this.

I dont agree with your opinion about my opinion either, LOL! And I wont buy a Zebralight, even though many people like them, because I dont want PWM. Im in a minority on that, lots of people love lights that use PWM, including HDS, Malkoff, McGizmo, Eagletac, etc.. Different strokes for different folks.

I do think we agree that LiIon is more dangerous than Eneloop

for those interested in more info about risk management with LiIon, here is a thread that I started (and my opinion kept changing the more I learned)
10440 LiIon in lights not rated for LiIon, pros and cons?

Bottom line is I chose not to get into LiIon, because I like the option to charge my Eneloops while I am sleeping, which is a No-No with LiIon afaik
I did not feel the reward was worth the risk, for me. YMMV

And, fwiw, the latest AA Zebralight SC5 does NOT officially support LiIon. The AA battery is sufficient for what Zebralight thinks that particular light is good for. They do make 18650 lights also, but, the OP wants an AA light

 

[MX421]

And, fwiw, the latest AA Zebralight SC5 does NOT officially support LiIon. The AA battery is sufficient for what Zebralight thinks that particular light is good for. They do make 18650 lights also, but, the OP wants an AA light

The SC52 (and H52) does have Li-Ion capability and is smaller and more pocketable in my opinion. If i were to recommend what i wanted though, i'd recommend a 18650 light of course...probably a H600...

I agree that Lithium Ion has the capacity to be more dangerous. However, with most modern smart chargers, this liability is very limited now the way these chargers monitor the battery. Using protected cells limits the risk even further.

When you realize that most rechargeable modern electronics (laptops, tablets, phones, portable video games, etc.) have been using Li-Ion for years, its clear that the risk liability has been handled by modern technology. Hell, there also seems to be a trend towards rechargeable lights (which BTW, i am not a fan of). To each their own though and i think the OP can take away from this that he needs to research these batteries prior to using.

 

[emarkd]

I have to agree. Why would I be excessively concerned about the li ion cell in my flashlight when I've got a 3000 mAh li ion battery in my cell phone already, and its a soft-sided pouch inside a plastic body instead of being a rigid metal tube inside another rigid metal tube?

Have any of you ever disassembled a modern smartphone, maybe to do a screen replacement? Those pouch-style li ion cells look super sketchy but we all carry them around without much of a second thought.